View Poll Results: Select all that apply

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  • A clerk that refuses to issue a marriage license to a same sex couple because they are a Christian.

    50 92.59%
  • A clerk that refuses to issue a permit to a slaughterhouse because they are a Buddhist.

    50 92.59%
  • A clerk that refuses to issue a liquor license because they are a Muslim.

    52 96.30%
  • A clerk that refuses to issue a drilling permit because they are a wiccan.

    49 90.74%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Which of the following hypothetical public employees should be fired?

  1. #61
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    Re: Which of the following hypothetical public employees should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    That isn't the same thing as "for any reason".

    I don't make blanket statements like that about my employees. I also don't relish the idea of firing a good employee for any reason.

    I also know the odds of anyone's employees refusing to serve a class or color or sex of people is less likely than the odds of me waking up naked with Orlando Bloom.
    Really? Because that is exactly what this issue is, people who are willing to refuse to issue marriage licenses to a certain group of people, class of people. Refusing to serve a certain group of people.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Which of the following hypothetical public employees should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    OK, this is a multiple choice, so select all that you feel applies. Which of the hypothetical public employees should be fire or moved to a different position for not doing their job?
    I'm curious...

    Why did you choose these examples? Have there been cases in which a public employee has refused to issue a license or permit because of their religion?

    In any case, the employee's religious beliefs shouldn't enter into the picture at all. The employee should only follow the law.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Which of the following hypothetical public employees should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    How hard do you think issuing a marriage license, keeping track of them and other county paperwork, being county clerk might be?
    I have no idea what all is actually involved in being the town/county clerk.

    I don't imagine that it's a position where you could easily fire the current clerk today and replace him or her with someone fresh off the street tomorrow.

    I expect that while much of the actual "work" is pro forma (eg. pull form, fill form, stamp form, file) the institutional knowledge of how to do the job is fairly extensive and requires more than a little OJT as well as the development of relationships both within the town or county "capitol" building as well as across the various departments of government.

    If we're talking about a town where there's only the clerk then I expect a government would be setting itself up for an absolute nightmare by just up and firing that person.

    In a larger municipality where there's the clerk and one or more subordinate(s) it would probably be a lot easier to do but still not without its share of friction.

    In either case, it's also possible that there are contracts and union representation (AFSCME) involved in the mix as well as an informal "good ol' boy" network of Christian employees who all disagree with this law on religious grounds and don't like the idea of one of their own having his or her faith compromised in this manner.

    If you decide you want to fire the clerk it's possible that you'll have every other unionized and/or Christian employee in the government employ striking or slowing down or otherwise throwing wrenches in to the works.

    As I also mentioned we may be talking about people who are politically connected or who may have knowledge of...indiscretions (to choose a tactful term) that have been committed by various public servants. Such relationships and knowledge could be brought to bear in order to pressure superiors.

    It's also possible that we're talking about little old ladies in tennis shoes who have been serving the municipality for multiple decades and enjoy a very warm place in the hearts of local people both within and outside of government.

    And all of this may be taking place in municipality where 99% of the population is deeply fundamentalist Christian, disagrees with this ruling, feels that the SCOTUS is legislating from the bench, and has had enough with what they see as a decline in good old fashioned values.

    Look, I support SSM and this recent SCOTUS ruling as much as anyone.

    It is not my intention to support what (if any - and I doubt there'll be much) "rebellion" might come as a result on the municipal level.

    But, again, we're not talking about firing a McDonald's fry chef because he or she refused to clean a bathroom.

    These are skilled professional positions and potential volatile situations.

    There's a lot more to consider than just firing someone.
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    Re: Which of the following hypothetical public employees should be fired?

    It's kind of weird that given the divorce and remarriage statistics here we don't hear more about all those sinners adulterers having issues getting a marriage license since you typically have to put your current status or number of previous marriages. Anyways if you are hired to issue marriage licenses that's what you should do no questions asked.
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  5. #65
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    Re: Which of the following hypothetical public employees should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    I have no idea what all is actually involved in being the town/county clerk.

    I don't imagine that it's a position where you could easily fire the current clerk today and replace him or her with someone fresh off the street tomorrow.

    I expect that while much of the actual "work" is pro forma (eg. pull form, fill form, stamp form, file) the institutional knowledge of how to do the job is fairly extensive and requires more than a little OJT as well as the development of relationships both within the town or county "capitol" building as well as across the various departments of government.

    If we're talking about a town where there's only the clerk then I expect a government would be setting itself up for an absolute nightmare by just up and firing that person.

    In a larger municipality where there's the clerk and one or more subordinate(s) it would probably be a lot easier to do but still not without its share of friction.

    In either case, it's also possible that there are contracts and union representation (AFSCME) involved in the mix as well as an informal "good ol' boy" network of Christian employees who all disagree with this law on religious grounds and don't like the idea of one of their own having his or her faith compromised in this manner.

    If you decide you want to fire the clerk it's possible that you'll have every other unionized and/or Christian employee in the government employ striking or slowing down or otherwise throwing wrenches in to the works.

    As I also mentioned we may be talking about people who are politically connected or who may have knowledge of...indiscretions (to choose a tactful term) that have been committed by various public servants. Such relationships and knowledge could be brought to bear in order to pressure superiors.

    It's also possible that we're talking about little old ladies in tennis shoes who have been serving the municipality for multiple decades and enjoy a very warm place in the hearts of local people both within and outside of government.

    And all of this may be taking place in municipality where 99% of the population is deeply fundamentalist Christian, disagrees with this ruling, feels that the SCOTUS is legislating from the bench, and has had enough with what they see as a decline in good old fashioned values.

    Look, I support SSM and this recent SCOTUS ruling as much as anyone.

    It is not my intention to support what (if any - and I doubt there'll be much) "rebellion" might come as a result on the municipal level.

    But, again, we're not talking about firing a McDonald's fry chef because he or she refused to clean a bathroom.

    These are skilled professional positions and potential volatile situations.

    There's a lot more to consider than just firing someone.
    There are still plenty of people looking for jobs. I'm willing to bet that that particular job would not be too hard to quickly fill.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Which of the following hypothetical public employees should be fired?

    "Skilled professionals"

    Lol my mom works for the county straight across from the county clerks office and I know exactly how skilled and professional they are not. You'll be lucky to break them out of their office gossip for two seconds to answer a question let alone trying to get them to actually do something. Of course I can't speak for all county clerks or offices but that one, actually most in the county, isn't exactly known for their good service. They are mostly rude and act like you are making a huge inconvenience when you ask them to do their job.
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  7. #67
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    Re: Which of the following hypothetical public employees should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I'm curious...

    Why did you choose these examples? Have there been cases in which a public employee has refused to issue a license or permit because of their religion?

    In any case, the employee's religious beliefs shouldn't enter into the picture at all. The employee should only follow the law.
    They are all just purely hypotheticals.
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  8. #68
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    Re: Which of the following hypothetical public employees should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    It was to make a point. Most of the same people that would be hollering about discrimination against Christians when a clerk is fired for refusing to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples would see no problem at all for firing a Muslim that refused to issue Liquor Licenses.
    These silly hypotheticals were to make a point that Christians are mean to Muslims?
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    Re: Which of the following hypothetical public employees should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    It's kind of weird that given the divorce and remarriage statistics here we don't hear more about all those sinners adulterers having issues getting a marriage license since you typically have to put your current status or number of previous marriages. Anyways if you are hired to issue marriage licenses that's what you should do no questions asked.
    I don't think you can get a marriage license if your current status is "married", at least not in NH.
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  10. #70
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    Re: Which of the following hypothetical public employees should be fired?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    These silly hypotheticals were to make a point that Christians are mean to Muslims?
    No, its to make the point that its not religious discrimination to require a public employee to do their job and follow the law.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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