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Obamacare's check-up[W:180]

Yes, Obama is a liar. Some of us already knew that. Which is why we don't trust his rainbow and paradise words about the ACA. You go on believing the liar.

And nobody said he said the ACA as it looks today would save people $2500 a year. You are seeing posts that don't exist. I said as did others that the man lied when he said he had a plan to save the "typical family" up to $2500. If he had such a plan, it was never proposed as a bill. Obama lied, and lied again when he was called out on his lie to try to save face.

The man is a pathalogical liar.
 
tres borrachos said:
You are intentionally ignoring the question so let me repeat it for you.

You said he campaigned on a public option, he said he did not - which one of you is a liar?
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After further thought, and in consideration for your love for the word 'liar', I have to say that Obama may not have specifically 'campaigned' on the public option - it sounds like its not something he ever mentioned, since its a bit wonky and in the weeds for campaigning, but he certainly had it in his platform, so it sounds like Obama is being a bit disingenuous here, but probably falling short of a lie.

You, on the other hand, are a whole lot closer to lying than he is.
 
Threegoofs said:
After further thought, and in consideration for your love for the word 'liar', I have to say that Obama may not have specifically 'campaigned' on the public option - it sounds like its not something he ever mentioned, since its a bit wonky and in the weeds for campaigning, but he certainly had it in his platform, so it sounds like Obama is being a bit disingenuous here, but probably falling short of a lie.

You, on the other hand, are a whole lot closer to lying than he is.
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You keep defending the indefensible liar. "Bit disingenuous". I love that. Gotta hand it to you - your attempts at covering up his lies are a sight to behold. Pure blind partisanship all the way.

I will keep pointing out his lies. And unlike Obama, I never lied. I said what he said, and I proved my points with numerous links.

Face it. You lost this one. Badly, I might add. But at least your cluelessness was on full display.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Discuss the OP, not each other.
 
tres borrachos said:
Yes, Obama is a liar. Some of us already knew that. Which is why we don't trust his rainbow and paradise words about the ACA. You go on believing the liar.

And nobody said he said the ACA as it looks today would save people $2500 a year. You are seeing posts that don't exist. I said as did others that the man lied when he said he had a plan to save the "typical family" up to $2500. If he had such a plan, it was never proposed as a bill. Obama lied, and lied again when he was called out on his lie to try to save face.

The man is a pathalogical liar.
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LOL.

So a plan cant exist unless it is brought up as a bill? And clearly the plan didnt exist because you dont know how it would save $2500? And NOBODY says that the ACA is supposed to save the average family $2500? Let me refer you back to your OWN POST in this thread (#52) made at 8 AM this morning. http://www.debatepolitics.com/obamacare-aca/191422-obamacares-check-up-w-180-a-6.html#
 
Threegoofs said:
LOL.

So a plan cant exist unless it is brought up as a bill? And clearly the plan didnt exist because you dont know how it would save $2500? And NOBODY says that the ACA is supposed to save the average family $2500? Let me refer you back to your OWN POST in this thread (#52) made at 8 AM this morning. http://www.debatepolitics.com/obamacare-aca/191422-obamacares-check-up-w-180-a-6.html#
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Because I knew he was doing nothing but pandering to his weeping audience when he made that statement, and I knew someone was going to take the bait.

I will go back to the OP as the moderator asked and not say anything further about you. Have a nice day, TG.
 
Back to the OP. Greenbeard, what has the ACA done to help you specifically? Have you seen a reduction in your insurance premiums? How about healthcare costs across the board? We all know it's a great entitlement program and has been successful in covering poor people. What about the average American who has had and will continue to have employer-provided insurance? What benefits have we seen as a result of the ACA?
 
sangha said:
What did you expect?

Death panels didn't pan out

The exchanges will collapse didn't pan out

Young people won't sign up didn't pan out

People won't pay didn't pan out

They just don't have much left
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You forgot the "death spiral" that is not happening too.

It is a shame that the ACA deniers are boxed into a corner, flailing aimlessly with no way out. I feel sorry for them.....not.
 
tres borrachos said:
Back to the OP. Greenbeard, what has the ACA done to help you specifically? Have you seen a reduction in your insurance premiums? How about healthcare costs across the board? We all know it's a great entitlement program and has been successful in covering poor people. What about the average American who has had and will continue to have employer-provided insurance? What benefits have we seen as a result of the ACA?
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Hmm. OK Rip Van Winkle. You have free wellness care, no more lifetime cap on benefits, Refund checks if your insurer overcharges you and takes more than a 15% "cut", no more denying payments for pre-existing conditions, your children can stay on your policy until 26 years old, and most importantly no more phony policies that won't pay when you need them. There are more I am sure but since you have been living in a cave for the last 5 years, I didn't want to lay them all on you at once.
 
Threegoofs said:
You must know the right right wing nutbag sites to search. I salute you.
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Yeah, bing.com :lamo

Threegoofs said:
Maybe I'm wrong, and this $2500 meme has been a thing all along. First I heard it was last year, and looked into it and was surprised it was based upon a campaign promise for his proposed plan, not the actual, you know, ACA.
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Well if you watched the video the earliest date Obama himself claimed the $2500 savings was 2007. So your only 7 years off.
 
iguanaman said:
Hmm. OK Rip Van Winkle. You have free wellness care, no more lifetime cap on benefits, Refund checks if your insurer overcharges you, no more denials for pre existing conditions, your children can stay on your policy until 26 years old, and most importantly no more phony policies that won't pay when you need them. There are more I am sure but since you have been living in a cave for the last 5 years, I didn't want to lay them all on you at once.
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Too bad I never had any of those things you listed - we always got free wellness checks, we never had lifetimes caps on our benefits, we were never denied insurance coverage for pre-existing conditions (which my husband has had since he was 9, BTW), our policies have paid for everything my husband, kids & I ever needed, and when my kids graduate from college, they plan to do what their father & I did when we were 22 - get jobs with insurance benefits and take care of ourselves like adults do.

Anything else?

Now, when can we expect to see costs go down? June? 2015? A year from Christmas?
 
iguanaman said:
Hmm. OK Rip Van Winkle. You have free wellness care, no more lifetime cap on benefits, Refund checks if your insurer overcharges you and takes more than a 15% "cut", no more denying payments for pre-existing conditions, your children can stay on your policy until 26 years old, and most importantly no more phony policies that won't pay when you need them. There are more I am sure but since you have been living in a cave for the last 5 years, I didn't want to lay them all on you at once.
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Oddly enough, it's been debated and brought up on these threads repeatedly, so not sure how one could miss that.

I guess I'd also add that tge establishment of ACOs, pay for quality, and the CMMI are huge benefits too, we just don't directly see them.
 
tres borrachos said:
Back to the OP. Greenbeard, what has the ACA done to help you specifically? Have you seen a reduction in your insurance premiums? How about healthcare costs across the board? We all know it's a great entitlement program and has been successful in covering poor people. What about the average American who has had and will continue to have employer-provided insurance? What benefits have we seen as a result of the ACA?
Click to expand...

Hospitals improving quality affects everyone. Physicians and other medical professionals working in teams to improve care delivery and hold down cost growth affects everyone. Slowing health care spending growth and low health care price inflation affects everyone. Spending growth in the public insurance programs slowing down affects every taxpayer. Having a functioning insurance marketplace outside of employer-sponsored insurance affects anyone who may someday leave their current job.

The health care system as a whole in this country has been broken for a long time, resulting in all of us overpaying for an underperforming system. There's a compelling story to be told about how the system itself has begun to change. And, as someone who pays into that system and may someday need care in it, those changes are just as important to me as to anyone else.
 
Greenbeard said:
Hospitals improving quality affects everyone. Physicians and other medical professionals working in teams to improve care delivery and hold down cost growth affects everyone. Slowing health care spending growth and low health care price inflation affects everyone. Spending growth in the public insurance programs slowing down affects every taxpayer. Having a functioning insurance marketplace outside of employer-sponsored insurance affects anyone who may someday leave their current job.

The health care system as a whole in this country has been broken for a long time, resulting in all of us overpaying for an underperforming system. There's a compelling story to be told about how the system itself has begun to change. And, as someone who pays into that system and may someday need care in it, those changes are just as important to me as to anyone else.
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Quality wasn't bad before. On the contrary, we have some of the best if not THE best hospitals and teaching facilities in the world.

The compelling story sounds nice, but unless the ACA drastically reduces the cost of healthcare in this country, and the cost of insurance that more than half the country was already getting through employer sponsored plans, it will not benefit those people (and I am one of them).

When you left your job, in most cases you were entitled to COBRA. How many people were counted among the ranks of the uninsured because they were "between jobs"? That number would have to be quantified in order to make it relevant.

I will disagree with you but I do appreciate your as always well written post. You are on the opposite end of this argument from me, but I do always read your posts and links and appreciate that you take the time to post them.
 
tres borrachos said:
Quality wasn't bad before. On the contrary, we have some of the best if not THE best hospitals and teaching facilities in the world.
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We've had serious quality issues for some time. The Institute of Medicine called these lapses out over a decade ago in To Err is Human (1999) and Crossing the Quality Chasm (2001).

We over-treat, we under-treat, we mis-treat--our health care delivery system is often poorly organized, misallocates resources, and is generally (though not deliberately, of course) set up to compromise quality and inflate costs. We can do much better than we've done. And if we do, we'll not only deliver better care we'll save some money along the way. And this is something that's already started to happen. That's the story I'm talking about.

The compelling story sounds nice, but unless the ACA drastically reduces the cost of healthcare in this country, and the cost of insurance that more than half the country was already getting through employer sponsored plans, it will not benefit those people (and I am one of them).

When you left your job, in most cases you were entitled to COBRA. How many people were counted among the ranks of the uninsured because they were "between jobs"? That number would have to be quantified in order to make it relevant.
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COBRA is a temporary privilege to continue buying into the group plan you were getting before (sans the majority employer subsidy you were getting before). It doesn't mean much in the long-term if you're leaving a job to start your own business or taking one that otherwise doesn't offer coverage.

The underlying costs the people in those employer-sponsored plans have to deal with are tied closely to the disorganization and underperformance of the health care delivery system. So yes, fixing that will benefit them as insurance-buyers. Not to mention as actual patients.

I will disagree with you but I do appreciate your as always well written post. You are on the opposite end of this argument from me, but I do always read your posts and links and appreciate that you take the time to post them.
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Thanks.
 
tres borrachos said:
Quality wasn't bad before. On the contrary, we have some of the best if not THE best hospitals and teaching facilities in the world.

The compelling story sounds nice, but unless the ACA drastically reduces the cost of healthcare in this country, and the cost of insurance that more than half the country was already getting through employer sponsored plans, it will not benefit those people (and I am one of them).

When you left your job, in most cases you were entitled to COBRA. How many people were counted among the ranks of the uninsured because they were "between jobs"? That number would have to be quantified in order to make it relevant.

I will disagree with you but I do appreciate your as always well written post. You are on the opposite end of this argument from me, but I do always read your posts and links and appreciate that you take the time to post them.
Click to expand...

Quality not bad?

Hmm. At this point we spend double the amount per capita vs other developed nations, but the quality of care generally runs in the middle of the pack.

I can comment on the cardiovascular care situation since I'm in it daily.

We have worse control of diabetes, hypertension and lipids in the USS vs a lot of Europe, we under treat patients with anti platelet agents and anticoagulants at rates way lower than the Europeans, and our technology generally lags behind too- devices are often approved much earlier in Europe, the radial interventional technique took off years ago there and is only being slowly adopted in the US, and for diseases like AF, over a THIRD of patients in the US are being treated with aspirin, which the Europeans took out of their guidelines years ago because it doesn't prevent stroke at all.


But we have flat screens in the hospital rooms, so that's good.
 
sangha said:
I'll wait until you can provide a quote with Obama saying that ACA would save everyone $2500/yr. Until then, I'll consider it one of the many lies the right is telling about Obama and ACA
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That was already provided. 19 times.
 
iguanaman said:
It's not like HC insurance costs have increased at all before the ACA. Why couldn't they have just left things the way they were. Like GW Bush did. Your analogy is a fail.

080201singer-chart1.jpg
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Get real. Check the prices of everything. I could compare prices now to what they were 40 years ago and make your hair stand on end. Doesn't change the fact the Obama was going to bend the cost curve - down. You remember that, don't ya? Are ya sayin, yet again, that things would've been worse if not for Obama?
 
humbolt said:
Get real. Check the prices of everything. I could compare prices now to what they were 40 years ago and make your hair stand on end. Doesn't change the fact the Obama was going to bend the cost curve - down. You remember that, don't ya? Are ya sayin, yet again, that things would've been worse if not for Obama?
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Right. And as amply demonstrated in other threads, that's exactly what the ACA has done and is doing.

The rate of health care inflation is lower than it has been in 30+ years.
 
humbolt said:
That was already provided. 19 times.
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not even once

humbolt said:
Get real. Check the prices of everything. I could compare prices now to what they were 40 years ago and make your hair stand on end. Doesn't change the fact the Obama was going to bend the cost curve - down. You remember that, don't ya? Are ya sayin, yet again, that things would've been worse if not for Obama?
Click to expand...

40 years ago?

The chart only goes back to 2000
 
tres borrachos said:
Too bad I never had any of those things you listed - we always got free wellness checks, we never had lifetimes caps on our benefits, we were never denied insurance coverage for pre-existing conditions (which my husband has had since he was 9, BTW), our policies have paid for everything my husband, kids & I ever needed, and when my kids graduate from college, they plan to do what their father & I did when we were 22 - get jobs with insurance benefits and take care of ourselves like adults do.

Anything else?

Now, when can we expect to see costs go down? June? 2015? A year from Christmas?
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OH.... I see you are jealous because now EVERYBODY has all those benefits instead of just you. Thousands have been denied coverage, thousands have had payments denied after they get sick too. I would think you would be happy that all of us can now sleep easy, knowing we won't go bankrupt if we get sick. Do you really think that is fair?
 
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