Terror -- The Uk's New Christmas export

Laila said:

Video blocked in my country

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I'm not at all surprised.

Grant said:

I'm not at all surprised.

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Gardener said:

It says worlds about the illiberal state of U.K. politics when even exposing the nature of the Taliban gets censored.

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From the youtube page -

"This video contains content from Channel 4, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds."

You both know what copyright means I hope?

U.S. Copyright Office for the US

Copyright.co.uk : Copyright Registration in United Kingdom

However, if you wish to make mountains out of molehills, feel free. We do have copyright infringement laws here and Channel 4 are well within their rights to impose them.

Countdown to someone saying "copyright" comes straight from the Qu'ran and quoting the verse....

Infinite Chaos said:

From the youtube page -

"This video contains content from Channel 4, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds."

You both know what copyright means I hope?

U.S. Copyright Office for the US

Copyright.co.uk : Copyright Registration in United Kingdom

However, if you wish to make mountains out of molehills, feel free. We do have copyright infringement laws here and Channel 4 are well within their rights to impose them.

Countdown to someone saying "copyright" comes straight from the Qu'ran and quoting the verse....

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How right you are as it was first shown here on our dispatches program and can still be seen on Channel 4 Dispatches - Beneath the Veil - Channel 4

Republic_Of_Public said:

The question was answered; though Indians, Jewish bankers, women and Irishmen aren't fired by a religious ideology which tells them to subjugate people who aren't like them.

And when you consider recent surveys found millions of Muslims still wanting death for 'aspostasy', stoning, Sharia and all the other rubbish worldwide, I'd say that's pretty damn mainstream. And what's more, such nihalistic attitudes were ordained as religious duty by their warped 'prophet'!

Pew Poll: Majority of Muslims supports death for anyone leaving Islam - Vancouver American Politics | Examiner.com



And I'll add this PS too -

THE 73 SECTS fraud: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...rrested-beating-up-his-15.html#post1059141593

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The world is waking up at last!
Check out this website:

Logan's Warning |

Why do you think Osama's (uh, Obama - I keep getting them mixed up) first act in the White House was to take the bust of Churchill, put it in a cab, and send it to the British Embassy.
In a taxicab!
How rude can you get?
People are onto him - I don't think he is going to finish his term, I really don't.

No, but they sure give the mosques money... And where does it go R of P?
Mosques are military outposts, recruitment centers for jihadists... And the most moderate muslim in the world must surely know that he is funding the jihadists with his donations to their mosques.
There is really only one solution, and we are working on it in America. Islam must be banned. It is seditious and anti-democratic. In fact, its the most fascist political ideology since Nazism, only it predates Nazism!
Islam cannot shelter under the world 'religion' forever, not in the US at any rate. We have so many people who are wide awake now and fighting to have Islam banned.
It WILL happen, because we are not about to let ANYTHING undermine our Constitution.
When Osama is out, CAIR and The Muslim Brotherhood will be out on their collective bums, too.

julietsm said:

No, but they sure give the mosques money... And where does it go R of P?
Mosques are military outposts, recruitment centers for jihadists... And the most moderate muslim in the world must surely know that he is funding the jihadists with his donations to their mosques.
There is really only one solution, and we are working on it in America. Islam must be banned. It is seditious and anti-democratic. In fact, its the most fascist political ideology since Nazism, only it predates Nazism!
Islam cannot shelter under the world 'religion' forever, not in the US at any rate. We have so many people who are wide awake now and fighting to have Islam banned.
It WILL happen, because we are not about to let ANYTHING undermine our Constitution.
When Osama is out, CAIR and The Muslim Brotherhood will be out on their collective bums, too.

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How very interesting. I'm afraid I have to ask you to go a little more into specific detail, though, because I'm a little confused at some apparent contradiction in this post. You sate that you're not about to let anything undermine the Constitution, right? The Constitution explicitly protects religion from government interference and, depending on your interpretation, also protects government from religious interference. In this light, how exactly might government go about lawfully banning any religion from American soil? Is there some kind of loophole I may be missing? Was an amendment passed that would make what you propose doable?

Not only do I think you're absurdly wrong in your analysis of the American people's desire for more government interference in their private lives, especially into the religious sphere, I also think your wish of ever being able to ban a religion in the US is utterly impossible. And the reason why it's impossible is because the very Constitution you speak of will not allow it. So, good luck to you and your misguided little group, but your chances of success are pretty much close to nil.

Republic_Of_Public said:

There were no complaints about Churchill during the war were there? And the old man did indeed warn of radical Islam himself, as far back as 1898. So you actually started somewhere very relevant.

Islamic culture was intended by Muhamad to be a single doctrine. Yet his own Muslims, encouraged by him to be supremacist, had to be appeased even within Muhammad's own lifetime. So after the phony 73 sects of Islam were announced by him, others established themselves after his death. And they've been killing both infidels and each other ever since.

And it can also be said that deep inside the Muslim world there's no need to feel so bloodthirsty. After all, when all around you are fellow Muslims, all you need is Sharia Law to keep the masses oppressed and backward as they think normal, rather than a jihad mentality to keep new people freshly enslaved.




BANG ON MR. CHURCHILL:

“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."

Freeborn John: Winston Churchill on Islam

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Arcana XV said:

How very interesting. I'm afraid I have to ask you to go a little more into specific detail, though, because I'm a little confused at some apparent contradiction in this post. You sate that you're not about to let anything undermine the Constitution, right? The Constitution explicitly protects religion from government interference and, depending on your interpretation, also protects government from religious interference. In this light, how exactly might government go about lawfully banning any religion from American soil? Is there some kind of loophole I may be missing? Was an amendment passed that would make what you propose doable?

Not only do I think you're absurdly wrong in your analysis of the American people's desire for more government interference in their private lives, especially into the religious sphere, I also think your wish of ever being able to ban a religion in the US is utterly impossible. And the reason why it's impossible is because the very Constitution you speak of will not allow it. So, good luck to you and your misguided little group, but your chances of success are pretty much close to nil.

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I don't believe that 'Islam' is a religion at all, but a dangerous political ideology that is fascist and totalitarian. It cannot shelter under the word "religion" forever.
It is an abomination.
Look at the state of the world, there are acts of terror in EVERY country, all Islamists screaming "Allahu Ahkbar".
Islamists come here, build mosques, and then preach the violent overthrow of our goverment.
It's sedition, no matter that they call Islam a 'religion'
It isn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WQqKj7r-Hc




I am an activist for Act! and I will never rest until Islam is banned in the US.

julietsm said:

I am an activist for Act! and I will never rest until Islam is banned in the US.

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the biggest threat to the US is not Muslims. it's your own Government whose actions are ultimately motivated by greed and the insatiable lust for power at any cost that is the biggest threat to you.

Serenity said:

the biggest threat to the US is not Muslims. it's your own Government whose actions are ultimately motivated by greed and the insatiable lust for power at any cost that is the biggest threat to you.

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You're right about that: I think Obama in particular is the biggest threat to our national security.
However, Congressman West (the former Lt Col) is a man I would vote for and I think he is a great man.
As for Obama - He has set himself up like a dictator, and is getting away with all kinds of criminal activities. He has got to go.

Serenity said:

the biggest threat to the US is not Muslims. it's your own Government whose actions are ultimately motivated by greed and the insatiable lust for power at any cost that is the biggest threat to you.

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...But that in no way negates the fact that I am fighting for the banning of Islam.

Republic_Of_Public said:

Even pitched on a religious level, Islam is a fraud. Muhammad claimed the Angel Gabriel came down and dictated the hate-filled, contradictory and love-bereft Koran.

The Revelations state somewhere that the Devil disguised as Gabriel will mislead a corruptible false prophet. If good ol' peaceful Mo really did have these visions then, according to peaceful Christians killed by Islam, that's what it was.

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That's EXACTLY who it was: the serpent, Satan, who likes to disguise himself as an angel of light...
Mohammed was always motivated by Satan and Islam is a Satanic religion. The "Christian" who disagreed with me proved that he isn't a Christian, because ALL CHRISTIANS KNOW that Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and The Life. "No man can come to the Father but through Me".

I am absolutely anti-Islamist and make no bones about it!
Gee, did you just figure that out?
Your mental prowess is staggering!

As for my Christianity, I don't terrorise people nor do I even proselytise. I try to live like Jesus.
You are anti-Christian, so what's you beef with my my being anti-Islamist?
At least, in my case there are sound reasons for being so inclined. You just don't like Christians. Period. Jesus said the world would hate us and it does.
Thanks for proving that point... And for no other reason than that we love Him.
"Those on the side of Truth stand with Me" says Jesus.
I'm standing with Jesus.
Jesus said "Many false prophets will come into the world" and that is EXACTLY what Mo is. A false prophet.
And fyi; my parents were Jewish atheists, so how did I become a Christian? I didn't even KNOW any Christians.

I had a personal encounter with the Living God and I asked Him if Jesus was His Son.
Go ahead and laugh - I don't care. Just because God revealed Himself to me and not you doesn't mean it didn't happen. Unbelievers love to make fun of us - but why would I choose to follow Jesus knowing that people would mock me and make a pariah of me?
I do it because I love Him, and His opinion of me is of infinitely greater value than your opinion of me.

julietsm said:

I don't believe that 'Islam' is a religion at all, but a dangerous political ideology that is fascist and totalitarian. It cannot shelter under the word "religion" forever.
It is an abomination.

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What you may or may not believe about any given religion is completely irrelevant. Your personal belief, opinion or prejudice does not change the fact that what you are proposing is unconstitutional and does not have a legal leg to stand on. Islam may have a political dimension, but as long as the US Constitution is still the primary law of the land no single religion will ever have the power to take over the government.

Look at the state of the world, there are acts of terror in EVERY country, all Islamists screaming "Allahu Ahkbar".

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So? I fail to see your point. There are people using guns all over the world and terrorizing others with them. Are we now supposed to ban guns because they may be misused by some?

Islamists come here, build mosques, and then preach the violent overthrow of our goverment.
It's sedition, no matter that they call Islam a 'religion'
It isn't.

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Again, so? Improve your counter-terrorism techniques and fight the problem the lawful way. Banning a religion because it may be used to justify terror is as ridiculous as banning guns because they may be used by criminals. Additionally, I fail to see how banning the religion will prevent terrorists from striking regardless. You are tackling the issue from completely the wrong angle. You are as utterly misguided as those who try to ban guns thinking that will keep them safe.

I am an activist for Act! and I will never rest until Islam is banned in the US.

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As I've said in my previous post, good luck trying to fundamentally change the US Constitution.

julietsm said:

I don't believe that 'Islam' is a religion at all, but a dangerous political ideology that is fascist and totalitarian. It cannot shelter under the word "religion" forever.
It is an abomination.
Look at the state of the world, there are acts of terror in EVERY country, all Islamists screaming "Allahu Ahkbar".
Islamists come here, build mosques, and then preach the violent overthrow of our goverment.
It's sedition, no matter that they call Islam a 'religion'
It isn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WQqKj7r-Hc


I am an activist for Act! and I will never rest until Islam is banned in the US.

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Do you have any proof, like peer-reviewed scholarly studies to prove anything is coming out of your mouth because I can find a youtube clip telling me that there are aliens and say "Oh look, I have proof."

Arcana XV said:

Not statistics, per se. I don'think there are any statistics as to the estimated number of Islamic terrorists per country. It's just that I've read a lot of reports over the past few years about international terrorism and they all point to France being the European country that is best able to handle the problem most efficiently.

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and the problem with statistics has to do with the way they are framed, and the intended effect of the agenda behind it. If one wants to send a feel good message, then the statistics might include only those who have actually participated in terrorist camps. By referring to that particular number as the limitation on the number of "extremists", however, the person who does so is indulging in quite a dishonest slight of hand. This is a familiar M.O. among apologists whose agenda it is to paint a false picture since it does not account for the number of Muslims who are actually supportive of terrorism, the number who share the same objectives as the terrorists in regards to the establishment of a totalitarian belief system as law, nor the number of Muslims who adhere to such archly conservative belief systems as to be considered an extremist were they only a native French (or British) person.

It's the double standards that people create when they define the word "extremist" that is so indicative of an agenda at work. The same people who find it easy to lambaste any of our American hate preachers defend attitudes many times more severe as long as those attitudes arise from within Islam, and this is particularly common among those from the U.K. Their staggaring hypocrisy is a function of their own racism -- in this case, reverse racism -- where they are incapable of establishing a world view based upon consistant principles, but simply put their finger to the air to check the prevailing wind direction when it comes to orthodoxy. WHO advocates something is all that matters rather than what is being advocated.

What is extremism?

julietsm said:

I am absolutely anti-Islamist and make no bones about it!

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Looks to me like you are anti Muslim instead of anti Islamist.

Islamism is the term for the more aggressive strain of Islam that has been politicized. The Islamists want Islamic law to prevail. An example of the Islamists would be the Mullahs in Iran, and yes, they should be denounced for the totalitarians they are. So should those who support the brutal legal system. In some Muslim areas, there are huge numbers of Islamists and I get fed up with the dishonest apologists who seek to deny this. That doen't mean all of Islam is evil, though, since just as Iran has its totalitarian Mullahs, it also has its green revolution -- people who are Muslim, but are also modern and forward thinking.


Between the hard leftists like some seen here who attack anybody who doesn't toe the politically correct line when it comes to apologia for Islamists, and the fundie right like yourself who would alienate all Muslims, there just seems to be few sensible people in the middle who are alarmed at the Islmism and do view it as a threat, but who also think we should be working together with moderate and liberal Muslims in regards to facing down this threat. As far as I'm concerned, the very BEST way to diffuse the threat of Islamism would be to show those like the courageous Muslims in the Green revolution that we support them.

All you are doing is acting just like the Islamists when it comes to the rejection of anything that doeasn't fit your narrow agenda.

Gardener said:

Looks to me like you are anti Muslim instead of anti Islamist.

Islamism is the term for the more aggressive strain of Islam that has been politicized. The Islamists want Islamic law to prevail. An example of the Islamists would be the Mullahs in Iran, and yes, they should be denounced for the totalitarians they are. So should those who support the brutal legal system. In some Muslim areas, there are huge numbers of Islamists and I get fed up with the dishonest apologists who seek to deny this. That doen't mean all of Islam is evil, though, since just as Iran has its totalitarian Mullahs, it also has its green revolution -- people who are Muslim, but are also modern and forward thinking.


Between the hard leftists like some seen here who attack anybody who doesn't toe the politically correct line when it comes to apologia for Islamists, and the fundie right like yourself who would alienate all Muslims, there just seems to be few sensible people in the middle who are alarmed at the Islmism and do view it as a threat, but who also think we should be working together with moderate and liberal Muslims in regards to facing down this threat. As far as I'm concerned, the very BEST way to diffuse the threat of Islamism would be to show those like the courageous Muslims in the Green revolution that we support them.

All you are doing is acting just like the Islamists when it comes to the rejection of anything that doeasn't fit your narrow agenda.

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I agree with you that Islamism is a threat, but that threat is not as large as some people claim it to be, that's all I'm saying.

Mr. Invisible said:

I agree with you that Islamism is a threat, but that threat is not as large as some people claim it to be, that's all I'm saying.

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Have you ever availed yourself to even a single scientifiically conducted opinion poll to see what people actually believe?

It's easy to base your opinions on your imagination, but until you know what others actually believe, that is all you are doing.

Gardener said:

Have you ever availed yourself to even a single scientifiically conducted opinion poll to see what people actually believe?

It's easy to base your opinions on your imagination, but until you know what others actually believe, that is all you are doing.

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Have you ever gone and looked at a single scientifiically conducted opinion poll to see that most Muslims do not support terrorism/extremism?

Mr. Invisible said:

Have you ever gone and looked at a single scientifiically conducted opinion poll to see that most Muslims do not support terrorism/extremism?

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"Most", what is most?

and what is "terrorism/extremism"?

They are not the same. And There are far too many Muslims who merely support just terrorism. Not near a majority, but say 5-10% of 1.5 Billion is Alot.

and if you mean by "extremism".. Literalism (as it is used on/Against the Christian Right), then I would venture MOST Muslims are 'extremists.'

We must be fair with these terms.
Of course virtually no one is.

see, ie,
http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...mosexuality-0-fer-500-a-3.html#post1058436276

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...mosexuality-0-fer-500-a-4.html#post1058437965

and

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...mosexuality-0-fer-500-a-4.html#post1058440714
which includes:

Pete EU said:

But let me ask you this. Will you condemn the radical religious right wing in the US for exactly the same thing as this thread was originally started out for?

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me said:

ABSOLUTELY I do! That's always MY point tho.
But let's not include, or include for ALL 'Radical' for all literalists.

It's ME who's asking for fairness of usage of the word "Fundamentalist" as we apply it to Christian Literalists/Christian Right. And by all means let's include Orthodox/Ultra-Orthodox Jews for good measure.

Yes, I INSIST we start using the term 'Fundamentalist' (as we do for the Christian/Falwell/Robertson 'Right') for ALL Literalists.
Which would Include the MAJORITY of Muslims! OUCH.
Yes, THAT IS my point you've naively suggested, and Manji, (and Hamid) YOU ignored.

Let's see if You and others can be consistent and NOT Cultural Relativist and apply this term fairly.
(and Gut a Dishonest PC Mainstay of Mocking Robertson while condoning the same and even less tolerant ideals regulary voiced by Muslims. Like This VERY string Topic's Stats. Hello!)
-

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mbig said:

"Most", what is most?

and what is "terrorism/extremism"?

They are not the same. And There are far too many Muslims who merely support just terrorism. Not near a majority, but say 5-10% of 1.5 Billion is Alot.

and if you mean by "extremism".. Literalism (as it is used on/Against the Christian Right), then I would venture MOST Muslims are 'extremists.'

We must be fair with these terms.
Of course virtually no one is.

see, ie,
http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...mosexuality-0-fer-500-a-3.html#post1058436276

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...mosexuality-0-fer-500-a-4.html#post1058437965

and

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...mosexuality-0-fer-500-a-4.html#post1058440714
which includes:

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I know that terrorism and extremism are not the same. Calm down. Take a breather.

Mr. Invisible said:

I know that terrorism and extremism are not the same. Calm down. Take a breather.

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But you tried to deceive by lumping them as one [presumably tiny] category.

Nor did you respond to the meat of my post about the two and their relative numbers.. which Un-spun your Disingenuous attempt.

To now just say " I know they're not the same" is NO Reply.

Thus your "calm down". As you had No reply to being busted (in re use of the terms, ie, vs Christians) in your wrong-headed or intentional deception.

Mr. Invisible said:

Have you ever gone and looked at a single scientifiically conducted opinion poll to see that most Muslims do not support terrorism/extremism?

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Yes, of course I have looked at countless opinion polls. That is why I am so much better informed than you.

The support for terrorism runs to the many tens of millions of people. The percentage who support killing people if they leave Islam is truly staggering.

mbig said:

But you tried to deceive by lumping them as one [presumably tiny] category.

Nor did you respond to the meat of my post about the two and their relative numbers.. which Un-spun your Disingenuous attempt.

To now just say " I know they're not the same" is NO Reply.

Thus your "calm down". As you had No reply to being busted (in re use of the terms, ie, vs Christians) in your wrong-headed or intentional deception.

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Stop accusing me with your lies of me intentionally decieveing people