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More income tax facts

TurtleDude said:
if you are a pro tennis player (several thousand) its the same

the fact is-the longer a 'game' exists the more the best players win

what is your solution-hamstring Nadal since you cannot make the 50th best player as talented

people who lose didn't train as hard, didnt have as much talent or don't care as much as the winners. the main reason why people are in poverty is due to their own mistakes

not because the rich aren't taxed enough (according to those who piss and moan about the fact)
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Nadel= Goldman Sachs and AIG? A level playing field would be nice. Seems like only the rich are guarenteed not to fail by the government.
You are right though. The rich have suffered enough. I will gladly pay more so they don't have to.
 
Mach said:
So, when Turtledude claims: "I do not want to , and should not, be taxed this much", he's supposed to have this independantly verified? He's the source.

There is no evidence for what a tax rate *should* be, or what services we should have provided by the federal government, because they are in fact, choices. How do you not know this? The only belief system I know that attempted to tie "should" to every aspect of life was objectivism...and I doubt you mean to suggest we use that as the basis for debate.
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The problem with turtle is that he bounces back and forth between what you described - basically his own motivation of greed - which goes nowhere in a debate - and an attempt to support his won greed inspired views with analysis of history, events and policy of which he is woefully ignorant and badly misinformed.

If this board were called What I Believe rather than Debate Politics, there would be no trouble with him. But its not and there is.
 
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USA-1 said:
Nadel= Goldman Sachs and AIG? A level playing field would be nice. Seems like only the rich are guarenteed not to fail by the government.
You are right though. The rich have suffered enough. I will gladly pay more so they don't have to.
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the excuses you make for failure are hilarious

so is the idiotic attempt to act as if everyone in the top two percent are robber barons

the rich pay more in a week than you pay in a year. and maybe if people like you had to pay for all the crap you want the government to dole out in order to buy votes, you might stop your craving for more nanny government
 
haymarket said:
The problem with turtle is that he bounces back and forth between what you described - basically his own motivation of greed - which goes nowhere in a debate - and an attempt to support his won greed inspired views with analysis of history, events and policy of which he is woefully ignorant and badly misinformed.

If this board were called What I Believe rather than Debate Politics, there would be no trouble with him. But its not and there is.
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haymarket's definition of greed-opposing paying more and more and more taxes so dem politicians can buy the votes of their pawns

Haymarket's definition of altruism--demanding others be taxed more to "help the poor"
 
TurtleDude said:
haymarket's definition of greed-opposing paying more and more and more taxes so dem politicians can buy the votes of their pawns

Haymarket's definition of altruism--demanding others be taxed more to "help the poor"
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Haymarkets' definition of Turtles debating skills : the intellectually impotent musing about imaginary fantasies through a prism colored by blatant self interest and ideological extremism.

As I have said previously, I have worked on many political campaigns for Democrats and I have NEVER once seen any Democratic candidate make any of the appeals that turtle fantasizes about.
I have studied government and history for the last 45 years and have NEVER once read anything that agrees with turtle's views on the origins, workings or purposes of progressive taxation.

If one uses themselves as The Authority in their posts, then that Authority comes under scrutiny and can be examined, confronted and criticized accordingly. How many times does this board have to read the same self serving plea for greed over and over and over again in thread after thread after thread no matter what the topic actually is?

The phrase "one trick pony" comes to mind but does not do justice to his singular obsession with his own self promotion.

I strongly urge his to start debating the actual issues and forget his obsession with the self. The entire board will be better for it.
 
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haymarket said:
I strongly urge his to start debating the actual issues
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OK, let's look at your response with that in mind.

haymarket said:
Haymarkets' definition of Turtles debating skills : the intellectually impotent musing about imaginary fantasies through a prism colored by blatant self interest and ideological extremism.
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ad hom

As I have said previously, I have worked on many political campaigns for Democrats and I have NEVER once seen any Democratic candidate make any of the appeals that turtle fantasizes about. have studied government and history for the last 45 years and have NEVER once read anything that agrees with turtle's views on the origins, workings or purposes of progressive taxation.
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authority

If one uses themselves as The Authority in their posts, then that Authority comes under scrutiny and can be examined, confronted and criticized accordingly. How many times does this board have to read the same self serving plea for greed over and over and over again in thread after thread after thread no matter what the topic actually is?
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Dismiss appeals to authority. Engaging in them is as pointless as using them, but you can certainly try it...on an anonymous forum, and then we get to see how pointless it is...again.

The phrase "one trick pony" comes to mind but does not do justice to his singular obsession with his own self promotion.
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ad hom

I strongly urge his to start debating the actual issues and forget his obsession with the self. The entire board will be better for it.
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irony + ad hom

I don't see the intellectual honesty you're promoting evidenced in your own behavior. You can change that. Lots of people don't use reasoned debate on the forums, why join their ranks with posts like this?
 
USA-1 said:
You equate a game to peoples lives?
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A game is competitive. (of working properly)
The market is competitive (if working properly)
Valid.

In general, it's a bell curve distribution. Only a few out of a hundred random people choose to be ambitious, hard working, and reasonable, etc.
You lose a customer, you may lose your business. Who can you trust to interface with them? Probably about 2% of the population.
 
haymarket said:
Haymarkets' definition of Turtles debating skills : the intellectually impotent musing about imaginary fantasies through a prism colored by blatant self interest and ideological extremism.

As I have said previously, I have worked on many political campaigns for Democrats and I have NEVER once seen any Democratic candidate make any of the appeals that turtle fantasizes about.
I have studied government and history for the last 45 years and have NEVER once read anything that agrees with turtle's views on the origins, workings or purposes of progressive taxation.

If one uses themselves as The Authority in their posts, then that Authority comes under scrutiny and can be examined, confronted and criticized accordingly. How many times does this board have to read the same self serving plea for greed over and over and over again in thread after thread after thread no matter what the topic actually is?

The phrase "one trick pony" comes to mind but does not do justice to his singular obsession with his own self promotion.

I strongly urge his to start debating the actual issues and forget his obsession with the self. The entire board will be better for it.
Click to expand...

willful blindness is no excuse

"The rich are not paying their fair share in any nation that is facing the kind of employment issues [America currently does] — whether it's individual, corporate or whatever [form of] taxation forms," Clinton told an audience at the Brookings Institute, where she was discussing the administration's new National Security Strategy.


its easy to find cases of dem politicians pandering to looters
 
TurtleDude said:
the excuses you make for failure are hilarious

so is the idiotic attempt to act as if everyone in the top two percent are robber barons

the rich pay more in a week than you pay in a year. and maybe if people like you had to pay for all the crap you want the government to dole out in order to buy votes, you might stop your craving for more nanny government
Click to expand...

I don't want the government to dole out anything. Including subsidies for the rich. I want smaller government, less welfare (both corporate and personal) less taxes, less government spending on nation building and liberations. I don't want government and taxes to be such a large part of my life. The only way for that to happen is if others pick up the slack.

I have worked for fourty years and paid a ton of taxes and have gotten nothing back from the government. I am not a failure or making excuses for them. I have made the right decisions and have plenty of money for my early retirement.
I know people like you worship the rich and actually believe they have earned their wealth through hard work. That is not always the case. The CEO of my company for example. He was just at the right place at the right time with the right friends. His "hard work" drove our company into the ground while he was collecting compensation 100 times the company average wage. I pitty him.
The very investment bankers, hedge fund managers, wall street types, and financial sector executives that you so strongly defend did not make their money from hard work. The conned the government and the American people and drove our country to the brink of collapse. These are the people I have a problem with. Not the hard working people that make their fortune the legitimate way, by inheriting it.
 
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USA-1 said:
I don't want the government to dole out anything. Including subsidies for the rich. I want smaller government, less welfare (both corporate and personal) less taxes, less government spending on nation building and liberations. I don't want government and taxes to be such a large part of my life. The only way for that to happen is if others pick up the slack.

I have worked for fourty years and paid a ton of taxes and have gotten nothing back from the government. I am not a failure or making excuses for them. I have made the right decisions and have plenty of money for my early retirement.
I know people like you worship the rich and actually believe they have earned their wealth through hard work. That is not always the case. The CEO of my company for example. He was just at the right place at the right time with the right friends. His "hard work" drove our company into the ground while he was collecting compensation 100 times the company average wage. I pitty him.
The very investment bankers, hedge fund managers, wall street types, and financial sector executives that you so strongly defend did not make their money from hard work. The conned the government and the American people and drove our country to the brink of collapse. These are the people I have a problem with. Not the hard working people that make their fortune the legitimate way, by inheriting it.
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this oozes stupidity. I pay several hundred K a year in taxes and what do I get that you don't get. Or what do I get that someone who pays no FEDERAL INCOME TAX GET. we finally closed up my late parents' estate and while we had very good tax lawyers, we still paid a few million--what did I get for that that the 99% who don't get hit by the death tax do not get

"wall street types"

LOL this sounds like the
know nothings of more than a 100 years ago who blamed "Papists" or those who whined about "Jewish bankers" for their woes.
 
TurtleDude said:
this oozes stupidity. I pay several hundred K a year in taxes and what do I get that you don't get. Or what do I get that someone who pays no FEDERAL INCOME TAX GET. we finally closed up my late parents' estate and while we had very good tax lawyers, we still paid a few million--what did I get for that that the 99% who don't get hit by the death tax do not get

"wall street types"

LOL this sounds like the
know nothings of more than a 100 years ago who blamed "Papists" or those who whined about "Jewish bankers" for their woes.
Click to expand...

Does anyone here actually believe that a internet forum clown like you pays several hundred thousand dollars a year in taxes?:lamo

If it was true you certainly wouldn't be here wasting your time, would you? Unless of course you have no life at all.

The internet is a wonderful thing. It lets you be whatever you want to be, anonymously. You can claim pretty much whatever you want and no one can prove you wrong.

The truth is, everyone here knows you are a fraud. But we can't prove it because you are just a dumb name on an internet forum probably living in your mothers basement.
 
from Turtle

willful blindness is no excuse
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Yes. That is what I and many others have been telling you about your own views for a long time now.



its easy to find cases of dem politicians pandering to looters
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In your mind, any criticism of the rich not paying enough taxes is pandering to Democratic voters. No amount of evidence to the contrary will ever change that skewed perspective which is completely devoid of reality.

You have set up a catch 22 for your opponents. Anybody who dare bring up that the rich do not pay enough in taxes is guilty of pandering to Democrats even though they do not mention Democrats or getting their votes in their statements. And how do you know that? Simple. All Democrats want the rich to pay more so any mention of higher taxes on the rich has to be pandering to Democrats.

Neat little trick you have developed there. But its like I told you before, my role is to follow the JehovahsWitness down the street and make sure their tricks do not work.
 
USA-1 said:
Does anyone here actually believe that a internet forum clown like you pays several hundred thousand dollars a year in taxes?:lamo

If it was true you certainly wouldn't be here wasting your time, would you? Unless of course you have no life at all.

The internet is a wonderful thing. It lets you be whatever you want to be, anonymously. You can claim pretty much whatever you want and no one can prove you wrong.

The truth is, everyone here knows you are a fraud. But we can't prove it because you are just a dumb name on an internet forum probably living in your mothers basement.
Click to expand...

How much money do you wish to lose? I will tell you what-I will prove my claims to any two mods of your choice on the condition that once I do you donate ten thousand to DP. If you aren't willing to do that, then admit you are a liar or a coward or both
 
TurtleDude said:
How much money do you wish to lose? I will tell you what-I will prove my claims to any two mods of your choice on the condition that once I do you donate ten thousand to DP. If you aren't willing to do that, then admit you are a liar or a coward or both
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:lamo:lamo:lamo:lamo:lamo:
You better go upstairs and eat. Your mom has your lunch ready. I think it's mac and cheese today.
 
USA-1 said:
Yeah right.
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I see you have real integrity in debates. That's a good thing. But get that finger out of your ear, you don't know where that's been.
 
phattonez said:
I see you have real integrity in debates. That's a good thing. But get that finger out of your ear, you don't know where that's been.
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Right back at ya, slick.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Cease the personal attacks. Next one who does not comply with this directive will be booted from the thread.
 
USA-1 said:
Right back at ya, slick.
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So you still don't want to look up about how the top 2% aren't the same people year after year?
 
USA-1 said:
Does anyone here actually believe that a internet forum clown like you pays several hundred thousand dollars a year in taxes?:lamo

If it was true you certainly wouldn't be here wasting your time, would you? Unless of course you have no life at all.

The internet is a wonderful thing. It lets you be whatever you want to be, anonymously. You can claim pretty much whatever you want and no one can prove you wrong.

The truth is, everyone here knows you are a fraud. But we can't prove it because you are just a dumb name on an internet forum probably living in your mothers basement.
Click to expand...

Yes, I believe it.
 
USA-1 said:
I don't want the government to dole out anything. Including subsidies for the rich. I want smaller government, less welfare (both corporate and personal) less taxes, less government spending on nation building and liberations. I don't want government and taxes to be such a large part of my life. The only way for that to happen is if others pick up the slack.

I have worked for fourty years and paid a ton of taxes and have gotten nothing back from the government. I am not a failure or making excuses for them. I have made the right decisions and have plenty of money for my early retirement.
I know people like you worship the rich and actually believe they have earned their wealth through hard work. That is not always the case. The CEO of my company for example. He was just at the right place at the right time with the right friends. His "hard work" drove our company into the ground while he was collecting compensation 100 times the company average wage. I pitty him.
The very investment bankers, hedge fund managers, wall street types, and financial sector executives that you so strongly defend did not make their money from hard work. The conned the government and the American people and drove our country to the brink of collapse. These are the people I have a problem with. Not the hard working people that make their fortune the legitimate way, by inheriting it.
Click to expand...

You sound exactly like me. Did you just copy one of my posts?
 
USA-1 said:
No, not really. You can if you want.
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I've posted it before. Search on these forums for a post by me about income volatility.
 
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