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Video Shows Texas School Officer Body-Slamming 12-Year-Old Girl

Lursa said:
It doesnt matter what she was doing prior to the video. If she's not actively harming someone split her from the herd and deal with it as it takes place. Dont escalate. If an attempt to restrain her (which IMO is totally reasonable) just escalates her resistance, back off, protect yourself and the other kids and continue to de-escalate. See what happens and react appropriately. If she does go on the offensive again, sure, take the needed physical actions to protect yourself and others.

The men here esp. seem to just want to use force out of expedience and a sense of self-righteousness for God's sake! I keep reading "well I wouldnt '*let anybody* blah blah blah....*
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Unless you have more information than I do, we have no idea what she was doing. She could have been threatening to stab a kid for all we know (I don't think so...wouldn't be a good video to make money for the news). But his slam was not about "self righteousness." It wasn't obey or die. It was clearly reaction from training. Like I said before: it is EXACTLY what I would do if I were trying to control someone who needed to be controlled. I would put them on the floor face down with the exact method he did. But I wouldn't do it to a child. All I am saying is that that was bad training.

As for "deescalating," that is just a buzz word. Not everyone can be de escalated. They don't respond to verbal commands and that is all you have. And I certainly wouldn't want to let go of a suspect already in my control. Better to let them calm down with the cuffs on. Why? Because you would be in just as much hot water if you detained someone physically, let them go, and they harm someone.

All I'm saying is that the issue here is that this was bad training and piss poor reaction by someone who shouldn't have been a resource officer. And it was a failing on the administration as well. Ifs and buts on what control "should" be administered should be determined in training. Not determined by a jury afterwords. Juries should just determine reasonable force.
 
blackjack50 said:
I will note one piece of garbage from the story that really bugs the hell out of me and really stinks: notice it does not mention what she was doing to warrant officer interaction. Why does that bother me? Even when I disagree with his reaction?
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We are faced with a lack of available facts here. Then we try to fill the void with our own interpretations, based upon news paper blurbs.
I do not believe the Officer jumped in without due cause, I wonder about both sides of the story, history and if harassment complaint(s) were laid, what came of them?
I do think the Officer could have taken her to the ground, face down and pinned to the floor.
 
Moderate Right said:
Your rights go out the window when you kick a police officer. The police have a right not to be kicked. Where's their rights? The problem with this world is that older people are teaching their kids to be criminals and that it is allright to commit any crime you want and to kick a police officer but they damn well better not over react to you kicking them. How is this 12 year old going to grow up when she is already disrespecting the police at age 12? Please don't tell me some crap about how she was on the right path and now the cop has put her on the wrong path. I'm glad that rapper came out the other day and accused the Black Lives Matter movement of not caring at all about Black on Black crime.
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A lot of words trying to deflect from the fact that she wasn't a threat, and therefore the force used was excessive.

Goddamned right police officers better not overreact to a twelve year old girl waggling her stick legs at them.
 
Peter King said:
As usual you defend defend defend defend. In most civilized countries this kind of thing is a rarity (with children), I would think it is the emotional and illogical overreaction of US police officers who are left alone to deal with issues that could easily be solved with the help of another officer or teacher (as it is a school). Police officers sometimes think they are above the law and think they can do whatever they want to do with suspects because usually it is their word against that of the person they beat up. That creates an atmosphere in which officers quickly resort to force when it could just as easily be dealt with in a peaceful manner, especially with children.

Whether or not that is due to officers riding patrol alone, bad police practices, officers almost always getting away with whatever they do or poor training? Who knows, but this kind of police violence towards minors who are not a danger or known gangsters is just out of proportions to whatever that child may or may not have done.
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As usual you have nothing relevant.

When folks make absurd emotive claims like you have done it is only appropriate to defend against them.


The girl was in the wrong and was suspended over it.
 
Lursa said:
I do think it's a guy thing in many cases. I see it all the time when discussing gun carry scenarios with (mostly) men. And your attitude demonstrates it...it reads like it's all about you and your ego. And it was a young girl. YES back away, since you are capable of dealing with further physical confrontation. His job is to protect her too.

Yes situations are fluid...that is why you have plans and prepare....are you assuming plans are rigid and one-sided??? If so, why? Planning includes contingencies.
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I agree the guy thing is probably a part of it. Lots of guys just gotta prove that they have the biggest dick in the room.

I remember when women where first being integrated into the NYPD in large numbers. One of the major selling points was that women officers by nature would tend to try to de escalate more and not resort to physical force as quickly as men.
 
idea_steed said:
I also don't give her a free pass because she is 12. Some kids are truculent and aggressive.
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Yep they are. So what? The issue is the threat she posed and level of used to deal with it. She posed next to no threat to him and the respond appears completely out of proportion.

Frankly any tough guy cop who needs use that level of violence against an unarmed kid is incompetent and should be doing something else for a living.
 
Moderate Right said:
Your rights go out the window when you kick a police officer.
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No they don't. The officer certainly has a right to defend himself but the right is not unlimited.

If she has no rights at that point he would have been justified in putting a billet in her head. Is that what you're suggesting?

It's usually instructive to start by asking what would have happened to you - as a non cop - if you were in the same situation and did the same thing as the cop. Cops play by different rules legally, they have much more latitude with use of force (they shouldn't but that's another issue) but it's still useful for thinking about whether the reaction was reasonable. I suspect you'd be hauled off to jail and roundly criticized for overreacting.
 
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RogueWarrior said:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...-city-cops-didn-stop-attack-article-1.1409451

Maybe somebody should revamp the academy curriculum because it seems their don't know that and worse we can't teach them the lesson either.
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Not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying those cops in that article purposely and knowingly let that guy get stabbed while they stood by and watched in order to show that not all cops do their jobs? Because if so that's not what the article shows. At least in that particular incident.

Chan said that to sue the city, Lozito needed to have had direct contact with the cops in the motorman's booth and they had to have known he was in danger and ignored that, but there was no evidence of that.
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If you meant something else by all means please correct me. Your presentation here is a bit confusing. :confused:
 
Gaius46 said:
Yep they are. So what? The issue is the threat she posed and level of used to deal with it. She posed next to no threat to him and the respond appears completely out of proportion.

Frankly any tough guy cop who needs use that level of violence against an unarmed kid is incompetent and should be doing something else for a living.
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Everyone criticizing this cop keeps saying this. But what proof do you have? As far as I can tell everyone is basing this on the fact that she's a 12 year old girl and that's it. There are some in this thread that won't even consider the circumstances leading up to that video. Or any other circumstances for that matter.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Everyone criticizing this cop keeps saying this. But what proof do you have? As far as I can tell everyone is basing this on the fact that she's a 12 year old girl and that's it. There are some in this thread that won't even consider the circumstances leading up to that video. Or any other circumstances for that matter.
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What do the circumstances leading up to the video really have to with it? To me it seems what matters is whether or not she posed a threat at the point where he took her down. Anything else seems to me to say that he just got tired of her **** and wasn't merely defending himself.

You can make reasonable judgments regarding just how dangerous an unarmed 12 year old girl is - not very. That may not be right 100% of the time but it will right much more often than not.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Everyone criticizing this cop keeps saying this. But what proof do you have? As far as I can tell everyone is basing this on the fact that she's a 12 year old girl and that's it. There are some in this thread that won't even consider the circumstances leading up to that video. Or any other circumstances for that matter.
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Shes half his size and not a ninja, thats how we ****in know.

It doesnt matter what happened before. At the start of the video, she is already contained as a threat.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Everyone criticizing this cop keeps saying this. But what proof do you have? As far as I can tell everyone is basing this on the fact that she's a 12 year old girl and that's it. There are some in this thread that won't even consider the circumstances leading up to that video. Or any other circumstances for that matter.
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Well,

1. Circumstances leading up are irrelevant once the officer has the arrestee under control;

2. She IS a 12 year old girl. I wouldn't be able to look in the mirror if I found myself scared of a 12 year old girl.
 
Excon said:
As usual you have nothing relevant.

When folks make absurd emotive claims like you have done it is only appropriate to defend against them.


The girl was in the wrong and was suspended over it.
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So what? The girl was suspended, the cop also deserves to be suspended for overreacting and using inappropriate violence.
 
Deuce said:
A lot of words trying to deflect from the fact that she wasn't a threat, and therefore the force used was excessive.

Goddamned right police officers better not overreact to a twelve year old girl waggling her stick legs at them.
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She needs to be put in her place since her parents didn't do it. This just teaches twelve year old kids like this to be even more daring when they get older. Unfortunately, her parents have put her on the path to being a criminal and the only thing positive she can now expect out of life is, as a criminal, to demand that the police don't overreact to her crimes and resisting arrest. As a parent we should want our 12 year olds to aspire to be something more than tussling with police and becoming a career criminal. If this girl has zero respect for the police who in the hell is she going to have respect for? No one.
 
Gaius46 said:
No they don't. The officer certainly has a right to defend himself but the right is not unlimited.

If she has no rights at that point he would have been justified in putting a billet in her head. Is that what you're suggesting?

It's usually instructive to start by asking what would have happened to you - as a non cop - if you were in the same situation and did the same thing as the cop. Cops play by different rules legally, they have much more latitude with use of force (they shouldn't but that's another issue) but it's still useful for thinking about whether the reaction was reasonable. I suspect you'd be hauled off to jail and roundly criticized for overreacting.
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I get so damn sick and tired of the left thinking it is ok to be a criminal, fight with police, resist arrest, and then cry foul if the police use too much force. The simple solution to the problem is to not be a criminal in the first place. But, the left feels that everyone has rights, even criminals, and they often favor letting criminals right back out on the streets so they can do it all over again, including fighting with police and resisting arrest. I have no sympathy for these people. The world would be much better off without them. Law abiding citizens should have the right to not be victimized by these people again, and again, and again, but we don't seem to have that right. Only the criminals have rights.
 
Doesn't it speak volumes about our culture today that cops are needed in our middle schools to keep order?

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Moderate Right said:
I get so damn sick and tired of the left thinking it is ok to be a criminal, fight with police, resist arrest, and then cry foul if the police use too much force. The simple solution to the problem is to not be a criminal in the first place. But, the left feels that everyone has rights, even criminals, and they often favor letting criminals right back out on the streets so they can do it all over again, including fighting with police and resisting arrest. I have no sympathy for these people. The world would be much better off without them. Law abiding citizens should have the right to not be victimized by these people again, and again, and again, but we don't seem to have that right. Only the criminals have rights.
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The important thing about the 14th Amendment is that everyone must live under the same laws. That includes cops. If I can't walk up to someone and body slam them without risk of criminal charge then neither should a cop. Stop putting loose cannons in a uniform.
 
Moderate Right said:
I get so damn sick and tired of the left thinking it is ok to be a criminal, fight with police, resist arrest, and then cry foul if the police use too much force. The simple solution to the problem is to not be a criminal in the first place. But, the left feels that everyone has rights, even criminals, and they often favor letting criminals right back out on the streets so they can do it all over again, including fighting with police and resisting arrest. I have no sympathy for these people. The world would be much better off without them. Law abiding citizens should have the right to not be victimized by these people again, and again, and again, but we don't seem to have that right. Only the criminals have rights.
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I don't want government agents to beat people up when they get mad.
 
j-mac said:
Doesn't it speak volumes about our culture today that cops are needed in our middle schools to keep order?

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk
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It was needed in the wake of Columbine and when used appropriately, they can have a good face for the school. There's kids that can and do develop great relationships with the SROs. This isn't quite relating to this incident, because it was a fight that was starting. But the police outside of the school and school resource officers have unfortunately started to become the quick lever for teachers and administrators to "keep discipline" with school policies. Purely educational issues, being siphoned off onto law enforcement officials, leading to a large uptick in kids getting arrested or detained by police for not having "appropriate clothing" or annoying a teacher.
 
Moderate Right said:
I get so damn sick and tired of the left thinking it is ok to be a criminal, fight with police, resist arrest, and then cry foul if the police use too much force. The simple solution to the problem is to not be a criminal in the first place. But, the left feels that everyone has rights, even criminals, and they often favor letting criminals right back out on the streets so they can do it all over again, including fighting with police and resisting arrest. I have no sympathy for these people. The world would be much better off without them. Law abiding citizens should have the right to not be victimized by these people again, and again, and again, but we don't seem to have that right. Only the criminals have rights.
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So since when is a kid involved in a school yard fight a criminal ?

And to your point on rights of criminals - real ones not kids getting involved in fights no different than kids have since the dawn of time - if you have a beef about that dig up the founders and complain to them. They designed a system that gives criminals rights.
 
Moderate Right said:
She needs to be put in her place since her parents didn't do it. This just teaches twelve year old kids like this to be even more daring when they get older. Unfortunately, her parents have put her on the path to being a criminal and the only thing positive she can now expect out of life is, as a criminal, to demand that the police don't overreact to her crimes and resisting arrest. As a parent we should want our 12 year olds to aspire to be something more than tussling with police and becoming a career criminal. If this girl has zero respect for the police who in the hell is she going to have respect for? No one.
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The role of a public servant in law enforcement is not to do a parents' job, nor to put a twelve year old "in her place."

Police use of serious force is not a ****ing parenting tool.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying those cops in that article purposely and knowingly let that guy get stabbed while they stood by and watched in order to show that not all cops do their jobs? Because if so that's not what the article shows. At least in that particular incident.



If you meant something else by all means please correct me. Your presentation here is a bit confusing. :confused:
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Civil suit by Lozito

In the spring of 2012, Joseph Lozito, who was brutally stabbed and "grievously wounded, deeply slashed around the head and neck", sued police for negligence in failing to render assistance to him as he was being attacked by Gelman.[19][20][21] Lozito told reporters that he decided to file the lawsuit after learning from "a grand-jury member" that NYPD officer Terrance Howell testified that he hid from Gelman before and while Lozito was being attacked because Howell thought Gelman had a gun.[22][23] In response to the suit, attorneys for the City of New York argued that police had no duty to protect Lozito or any other person from Gelman.[22] On July 25, 2013, Judge Margaret Chan dismissed Lozito's suit; stating while sympathetic to the Lozito's account and not doubting his testimony, agreed that police had "no special duty" to protect Lozito.[19][20][24]
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maksim_Gelman_stabbing_spree

Sorry. I grabbed the first article without checking to see whether all the information was there.
Emphasis mine.

The police, as decided by the courts, do not have to anything. Protect and self-serve their own asses. I wish I still had the idealistic hero worship of my youth but reality sucks.

They have become, in many instances, a state sanctioned criminal gang.
 
Fiddytree said:
It was needed in the wake of Columbine and when used appropriately, they can have a good face for the school. There's kids that can and do develop great relationships with the SROs. This isn't quite relating to this incident, because it was a fight that was starting. But the police outside of the school and school resource officers have unfortunately started to become the quick lever for teachers and administrators to "keep discipline" with school policies. Purely educational issues, being siphoned off onto law enforcement officials, leading to a large uptick in kids getting arrested or detained by police for not having "appropriate clothing" or annoying a teacher.
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I think it's deeper than Columbine. It, to me goes to kids not respecting authority. And those in here jumping to denouncing the cop are just as downright dumb as the girl who thought she could get away by kicking the cop on the nads.

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Mr Person said:
I don't want government agents to beat people up when they get mad.
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But it is alright for a 12 year old to assault a cop. Doesn't anyone give a damn about this kid's upbringing and the path she is on? Is this really how you want this kid to grow up, always in trouble with the law and crying excessive force whenever they go to arrest her?
 
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