U.S. intelligence believes Putin probably didn't order Navalny to be killed - WSJ (1 Viewer)

[anatta]

I believe US intelligence about as much as I do Putin (neither) -but here you go

U.S. intelligence believes Putin probably didn't order Navalny to be killed - WSJ

LONDON (Reuters) -U.S. intelligence agencies have determined that Russian President Vladimir Putin probably didn't order opposition politician Alexei Navalny killed at an Arctic prison camp in February, the Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday. Navalny, 47 when he died, was Putin's fiercest...

www.yahoo.com

U.S. intelligence agencies have determined that Russian President Vladimir Putin probably didn't order opposition politician Alexei Navalny killed at an Arctic prison camp in February, the Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday.

Navalny, 47 when he died, was Putin's fiercest domestic critic. His allies, branded extremists by the authorities, accused Putin of having him murdered and have said they will provide proof to back their allegation.

The Kremlin has denied any state involvement. Last month, Putin called Navalny's demise "sad" and said he had been ready to hand the jailed politician over to the West in a prisoner exchange provided Navalny never return to Russia. Navalny's allies said such talks had been under way.

The Journal, citing unnamed people familiar with the matter, said on Saturday that U.S. intelligence agencies had concluded that Putin probably didn't order Navalny to be killed in February.

Reuters could not independently verify the Journal report, which cited sources as saying the finding had been "broadly accepted within the intelligence community and shared by several agencies, including the Central Intelligence Agency, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and the State Department’s intelligence unit."

The U.S. assessment was based on a range of information, including some classified intelligence, and an analysis of public facts, including the timing of Navalny's death and how it overshadowed Putin’s re-election in March, the paper cited some of its sources as saying.

It cited Leonid Volkov, a senior Navalny aide, as calling the U.S. findings naive and ridiculous.

 

[anatta]

it cited Leonid Volkov, a senior Navalny aide, as calling the U.S. findings naive and ridiculous.

DA RUSSIANS DID IT

 

[ataraxia]

Interesting, and I must admit a little surprising. So how do they think he died? Do we have any idea?

 

[Pyrite]

I believe US intelligence about as much as I do Putin (neither) -but here you go

U.S. intelligence believes Putin probably didn't order Navalny to be killed - WSJ

LONDON (Reuters) -U.S. intelligence agencies have determined that Russian President Vladimir Putin probably didn't order opposition politician Alexei Navalny killed at an Arctic prison camp in February, the Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday. Navalny, 47 when he died, was Putin's fiercest...

www.yahoo.com

U.S. intelligence agencies have determined that Russian President Vladimir Putin probably didn't order opposition politician Alexei Navalny killed at an Arctic prison camp in February, the Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday.

Navalny, 47 when he died, was Putin's fiercest domestic critic. His allies, branded extremists by the authorities, accused Putin of having him murdered and have said they will provide proof to back their allegation.

The Kremlin has denied any state involvement. Last month, Putin called Navalny's demise "sad" and said he had been ready to hand the jailed politician over to the West in a prisoner exchange provided Navalny never return to Russia. Navalny's allies said such talks had been under way.

The Journal, citing unnamed people familiar with the matter, said on Saturday that U.S. intelligence agencies had concluded that Putin probably didn't order Navalny to be killed in February.

Reuters could not independently verify the Journal report, which cited sources as saying the finding had been "broadly accepted within the intelligence community and shared by several agencies, including the Central Intelligence Agency, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and the State Department’s intelligence unit."

The U.S. assessment was based on a range of information, including some classified intelligence, and an analysis of public facts, including the timing of Navalny's death and how it overshadowed Putin’s re-election in March, the paper cited some of its sources as saying.

It cited Leonid Volkov, a senior Navalny aide, as calling the U.S. findings naive and ridiculous.

https://www.wsj.com/world/russia/alexei-navalny-death-us-intelligence-71bc95b0?mod=Searchresults_pos1&page=1

Alexei Navalny’s February death in an Arctic penal colony prompted a new wave of sanctions targeting Russia’s economy, upended delicate negotiations to exchange prisoners between Russia and the West, and left Russia’s limited opposition in disarray.

Russian President Vladimir Putin might not have planned for it to happen when it did.

U.S. intelligence agencies have determined that Putin likely didn’t order Navalny to be killed at the notoriously brutal prison camp in February, people familiar with the matter said, a finding that deepens the mystery about the circumstances of his death.

The assessment doesn’t dispute Putin’s culpability for Navalny’s death, but rather finds he probably didn’t order it at that moment. The finding is broadly accepted within the intelligence community and shared by several agencies, including the Central Intelligence Agency, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and the State Department’s intelligence unit, the people said....

 

[anatta]

https://www.wsj.com/world/russia/alexei-navalny-death-us-intelligence-71bc95b0?mod=Searchresults_pos1&page=1

Alexei Navalny’s February death in an Arctic penal colony prompted a new wave of sanctions targeting Russia’s economy, upended delicate negotiations to exchange prisoners between Russia and the West, and left Russia’s limited opposition in disarray.

Russian President Vladimir Putin might not have planned for it to happen when it did.

U.S. intelligence agencies have determined that Putin likely didn’t order Navalny to be killed at the notoriously brutal prison camp in February, people familiar with the matter said, a finding that deepens the mystery about the circumstances of his death.

The assessment doesn’t dispute Putin’s culpability for Navalny’s death, but rather finds he probably didn’t order it at that moment. The finding is broadly accepted within the intelligence community and shared by several agencies, including the Central Intelligence Agency, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and the State Department’s intelligence unit, the people said....

thanks for posting the paywalled link.. but that makes no sense. if Putin didnt order it "at that moment"
then who did? -and why is Putin to blame for the order?

 

[anatta]

Interesting, and I must admit a little surprising. So how do they think he died? Do we have any idea?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/alexei-navalnys-death-what-do-we-know-2024-02-18/

His 69-year-old mother, Lyudmila, had been given a notice of the death, Navalny's spokeswoman Kira Yarmysh said. The time of death in that notice was 2:17 p.m. local time (0917 GMT) on Feb. 16, Yarmysh said.
"When Alexei's lawyer and mother arrived at the colony this morning, they were told that the cause of Navalny's death was sudden death syndrome," Ivan Zhdanov, who directs Navalny's Anti-Corruption Foundation, said on Saturday.

"Sudden death syndrome" is a vague term for different cardiac syndromes that cause sudden cardiac arrest and death.
An unidentified source told state-controlled RT that Navalny died from a blood clot.
Russian investigators have not yet determined the cause of Navalny's death and, his mother and lawyers were told by investigative officials, Yarmysh said on Monday.

 

[bongsaway]

I can see Putin throwing a fit, that bastard died on me dammit, I wanted to kill him at my own discretion. To say he is not responsible for navalny's death is ridiculous.

 

[Roadvirus]

He's still dead. Put there because he dared to speak against Putzin. He got sick and died in an inhospitable hellhole the Gremlin-controlled justice system calls a prison.

 

[ataraxia]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/alexei-navalnys-death-what-do-we-know-2024-02-18/

His 69-year-old mother, Lyudmila, had been given a notice of the death, Navalny's spokeswoman Kira Yarmysh said. The time of death in that notice was 2:17 p.m. local time (0917 GMT) on Feb. 16, Yarmysh said.
"When Alexei's lawyer and mother arrived at the colony this morning, they were told that the cause of Navalny's death was sudden death syndrome," Ivan Zhdanov, who directs Navalny's Anti-Corruption Foundation, said on Saturday.

"Sudden death syndrome" is a vague term for different cardiac syndromes that cause sudden cardiac arrest and death.
An unidentified source told state-controlled RT that Navalny died from a blood clot.
Russian investigators have not yet determined the cause of Navalny's death and, his mother and lawyers were told by investigative officials, Yarmysh said on Monday.

I don’t know about this. I am no CIA director, but this all sounds just a bit fishy. Just too convenient for Putin- kinda like how all his other rivals just somehow happen to fall out of windows, or get into some “unfortunate” motor vehicle or aviation accident, etc etc…

 

[Hamish Howl]

I believe US intelligence about as much as I do Putin (neither) -but here you go

Oh, horseshit.

 

[Hamish Howl]

they were told that the cause of Navalny's death was sudden death syndrome,

Getting a "noodle" will do that.

 

[Real blank]

Yes poor Putin must of been so upset.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

I believe US intelligence about as much as I do Putin (neither) -but here you go

U.S. intelligence believes Putin probably didn't order Navalny to be killed - WSJ

LONDON (Reuters) -U.S. intelligence agencies have determined that Russian President Vladimir Putin probably didn't order opposition politician Alexei Navalny killed at an Arctic prison camp in February, the Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday. Navalny, 47 when he died, was Putin's fiercest...

www.yahoo.com

U.S. intelligence agencies have determined that Russian President Vladimir Putin probably didn't order opposition politician Alexei Navalny killed at an Arctic prison camp in February, the Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday.

Navalny, 47 when he died, was Putin's fiercest domestic critic. His allies, branded extremists by the authorities, accused Putin of having him murdered and have said they will provide proof to back their allegation.

The Kremlin has denied any state involvement. Last month, Putin called Navalny's demise "sad" and said he had been ready to hand the jailed politician over to the West in a prisoner exchange provided Navalny never return to Russia. Navalny's allies said such talks had been under way.

The Journal, citing unnamed people familiar with the matter, said on Saturday that U.S. intelligence agencies had concluded that Putin probably didn't order Navalny to be killed in February.

Reuters could not independently verify the Journal report, which cited sources as saying the finding had been "broadly accepted within the intelligence community and shared by several agencies, including the Central Intelligence Agency, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and the State Department’s intelligence unit."

The U.S. assessment was based on a range of information, including some classified intelligence, and an analysis of public facts, including the timing of Navalny's death and how it overshadowed Putin’s re-election in March, the paper cited some of its sources as saying.

It cited Leonid Volkov, a senior Navalny aide, as calling the U.S. findings naive and ridiculous.

I don't think it matters. Putin knew this was a likely outcome. Putin knew if he sent his main political rival to prison that he would eventually somehow die. And Putin did this because he is a dictator who will not allow Russia to become a democracy. And THAT is what matters.

 

[The Mark]

thanks for posting the paywalled link.. but that makes no sense. if Putin didnt order it "at that moment"
then who did? -and why is Putin to blame for the order?

I think they are saying that he planned to have someone kill him but didn't want it to occur at the moment it did.

 

[Yakshi]

Oh, horseshit.

Notice the shift in anatta's threads? Before, his defense of putin could have been dismissed as a by-product of his antiwar stance.

Now, he's just openly defending putin, apropos of nothing else.

I don't think it matters. Putin knew this was a likely outcome. Putin knew if he sent his main political rival to prison that he would eventually somehow die. And Putin did this because he is a dictator who will not allow Russia to become a democracy. And THAT is what matters.

Exactly. Poison or gun or arctic prison: the method is irrelevant. Everyone knows who is responsible for the death of Navalny.

 

[anatta]

Notice the shift in anatta's threads? Before, his defense of putin could have been dismissed as a by-product of his antiwar stance.

Now, he's just openly defending putin, apropos of nothing else.

you get one more chance to post on topic. My post was not about "defending Putin" it was about my 0 level of confidence in the products our various NSA/FBI counter-intelligence that feed the POTUS and feeds Congress have their own agendas

Exactly. Poison or gun or arctic prison: the method is irrelevant. Everyone knows who is responsible for the death of Navalny.

Responsibility isn't "who done it"

 

[anatta]

I don't think it matters. Putin knew this was a likely outcome. Putin knew if he sent his main political rival to prison that he would eventually somehow die. And Putin did this because he is a dictator who will not allow Russia to become a democracy. And THAT is what matters.

I have no doubt an Arctic prison for a political prisoner is conducive to good health

 

[Yakshi]

In conclusion, putin killed Navalny.

/thread

 

[Juks]

I believe US intelligence about as much as I do Putin (neither) -but here you go

U.S. intelligence believes Putin probably didn't order Navalny to be killed - WSJ

LONDON (Reuters) -U.S. intelligence agencies have determined that Russian President Vladimir Putin probably didn't order opposition politician Alexei Navalny killed at an Arctic prison camp in February, the Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday. Navalny, 47 when he died, was Putin's fiercest...

www.yahoo.com

U.S. intelligence agencies have determined that Russian President Vladimir Putin probably didn't order opposition politician Alexei Navalny killed at an Arctic prison camp in February, the Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday.

Navalny, 47 when he died, was Putin's fiercest domestic critic. His allies, branded extremists by the authorities, accused Putin of having him murdered and have said they will provide proof to back their allegation.

The Kremlin has denied any state involvement. Last month, Putin called Navalny's demise "sad" and said he had been ready to hand the jailed politician over to the West in a prisoner exchange provided Navalny never return to Russia. Navalny's allies said such talks had been under way.

The Journal, citing unnamed people familiar with the matter, said on Saturday that U.S. intelligence agencies had concluded that Putin probably didn't order Navalny to be killed in February.

Reuters could not independently verify the Journal report, which cited sources as saying the finding had been "broadly accepted within the intelligence community and shared by several agencies, including the Central Intelligence Agency, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and the State Department’s intelligence unit."

The U.S. assessment was based on a range of information, including some classified intelligence, and an analysis of public facts, including the timing of Navalny's death and how it overshadowed Putin’s re-election in March, the paper cited some of its sources as saying.

It cited Leonid Volkov, a senior Navalny aide, as calling the U.S. findings naive and ridiculous.

So, Russia has propagandanists in the US intelligence service? Interesting but not surprising. After all, they had free access to plant people for 4 years with Trump..

Nothing happens in Russia without the approval of Putin, that is just how it is.

 

[Juks]

And by the way, the US intelligence service has never been the best(as leaky as a sieve), neither has Russia. It was always the British and, at the time of the cold war, the Easter German. Every time the US intelligence service gets it right you can be sure, its the British that tells them what is going on. Unlike the US, the British keep their cards close to the chest and they don't like publicity, so better to inform the US when they need something to be public.

 

[anatta]

And by the way, the US intelligence service has never been the best(as leaky as a sieve), neither has Russia. It was always the British and, at the time of the cold war, the Easter German. Every time the US intelligence service gets it right you can be sure, its the British that tells them what is going on. Unlike the US, the British keep their cards close to the chest and they don't like publicity, so better to inform the US when they need something to be public.

sell they sure ****ed up Libya. France was the leading power but they went right along with it
Parliament did a paper showing how bad they mangled/massaged intel. Russia did not take part in killing Qadaffi

I have little use for western intel - chocked full of Russiaphobia, and goodies like Iraq WMD

 

[anatta]

So, Russia has propagandanists in the US intelligence service? Interesting but not surprising. After all, they had free access to plant people for 4 years with Trump..

Nothing happens in Russia without the approval of Putin, that is just how it is.

Navalny dies without Putin's permission?

 

[anatta]

Imagine you’re the New York Times. Donald Trump might return to the presidency so you report, as the paper did on April 12, on the “distrust” that exists between him and the U.S. intelligence agencies. But you leave out the part about top Obama intelligence officers going on national TV to call Mr. Trump a Russian agent. You leave out the part about FBI counterintelligence leaders knowingly trafficking in fabricated evidence about him. You leave out the part about 51 former intelligence officials lying to voters to influence an election and help his opponent.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/all-the-disinformation-thats-fit-to-print-new-york-times-intelligence-agency-trump-73bfb29d?mod=opinion_lead_pos8

 

[j brown's body]

Interesting, and I must admit a little surprising. So how do they think he died? Do we have any idea?

How on earth could Putin have anything to do with the death of his political opponent in a Russia Arctic Penal Colony?

Dude should have taken better care of himself.

 

[Juin]

Navalny dies without Putin's permission?

Navalny could not have died without Putin's permission.