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Deputies shoot man in his front yard

Coffin nails, got the poor smuck nailed. Almost got him nailed into a coffin. :lamo Is it me or are the police a tad bit touchy nowadays.

you tend to get touchy when people shoot at you or attack you for doing your job :shrug:
 
you tend to get touchy when people shoot at you or attack you for doing your job :shrug:

The police community needs to go back to what they were originally and that's peace officers and back away from the leo mentality. The mentality is burning the bridge they really need and that's community support, because last I checked they were part of the community. Keeping the peace and law enforcement are to very different mentalities. The military gear and all black and the us vs. them is getting them into trouble they don't need. One of these days somebody with some serious skills is going to take umbrage and fill a bunch of body bags full of leo's. I'd rather the police realize their road they are on is not the one they should be on and make the turn back and start just keeping the peace. The communities need to really start vetting their officers and more importantly pick quality over quantity, and be willing to pay handsomely for it. Further they should hold their officers to a HIGHER standard than the community at large. And have a one strike policy to boot. That's my two cents anywho.
 
The police community needs to go back to what they were originally and that's peace officers and back away from the leo mentality. The mentality is burning the bridge they really need and that's community support, because last I checked they were part of the community. Keeping the peace and law enforcement are to very different mentalities. The military gear and all black and the us vs. them is getting them into trouble they don't need. One of these days somebody with some serious skills is going to take umbrage and fill a bunch of body bags full of leo's. I'd rather the police realize their road they are on is not the one they should be on and make the turn back and start just keeping the peace. The communities need to really start vetting their officers and more importantly pick quality over quantity, and be willing to pay handsomely for it. Further they should hold their officers to a HIGHER standard than the community at large. And have a one strike policy to boot. That's my two cents anywho.

Allot of that is very reasonable and I agree. As for the strikes, I would submit it should be on a case by case basis as anyone can make a mistake. You should not take a man's livelihood for one minor mistake. Now if it is a huge mistake or one that causes harm or death? They should be charged anyway.
 
Allot of that is very reasonable and I agree. As for the strikes, I would submit it should be on a case by case basis as anyone can make a mistake. You should not take a man's livelihood for one minor mistake. Now if it is a huge mistake or one that causes harm or death? They should be charged anyway.

I could be convinced to see it your way if there was a very public and transparent review process separate from the dept.
 
If that person Works the swing shift or the gravyard shift they can be.

There is no normal in life.

I totally agree with this. I have been a nurse for decades. Can't tell you the hundreds (thousands?) of times I have come home in off hours. Let alone the numbers of times have to go out to the car in the middle of the night to get something for my debilitated mother.

There is no normal life. Especially these days.
 
I think the police officer that shot him was black. Anyone know why?
 
Sounds like a pretty strange story. Also, if what this guy says is true and several deputies were shooting at him repeatedly ("like a firing squad") then that sherif's department really needs to improve its weapons training.

Yep.

1 hit of 17 shots...
 
Well, there has been an update:

http://www.pnj.com/article/20130729/NEWS11/130729006/Mother-of-man-shot-in-his-front-yard-speaks-out

According to this update which includes statements made by Sheriff David Morgan:

Deputies Jeremiah Meeks and Matthew White responded to a 911 call on Saturday of a possible burglary and found Roy Middleton, 60, rummaging through a car in the 200 block of Shadow Lawn Lane in Warrington, Morgan said. Middleton was searching for a loose cigarette in his mother’s car.

Morgan said the deputies reported that, after they'd made multiple commands to Middleton to show his hands, he eventually lunged out of the car and spun toward them, causing them to "fear for their safety."

"As much as we are trained and as much as officers -- which have Type A personalities -- like to say we are in control, we are not," Morgan said at the conference.

Feared for their safety, but did they see any weapon? Apparently not. Was this a high crime area? Don't know but even so where was the threat in this particular instance.

I guess these cops were just the highly nervous type. Maybe a little more training on a live fire assessment course is due.
 
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whatever. If the cops get a report of a burglary in progress, the first assumption is not going to be that the guy in the car is the owner. if he was...why did someone report him?

word of advice: if you are doing anything and the cops come up, it is never a good idea to spin around quickly to face them.
Ever heard of fake cops. Just arrested on in Chicago. You come on my property, you better be legit, you better announce who you are and what you want.
And if I am on my property, I will defend it.
 
Ever heard of fake cops. Just arrested on in Chicago. You come on my property, you better be legit, you better announce who you are and what you want.
And if I am on my property, I will defend it.

whatever dude. real or fake...if a "cop" says "let me see your hands" and you whip around quickly...chances are good you are going to get a cap busted in your ass.
 
whatever dude. real or fake...if a "cop" says "let me see your hands" and you whip around quickly...chances are good you are going to get a cap busted in your ass.
Oh, BS. Cops that are that quick to shoot have no business being cops.
If I am in my yard and I hear someone behind me yelling, I will be turning around "quickly". Seriously, how fast is a 60 year old man going to "whip around".
Just another trigger happy punk with a badge.
 
Yea, how long does it take to get a cig out of a car that the cops can be there that fast.
Way more to this story than is being told.

Crue, you a smoker? I can see it myself. He dropped a cigarette between the seat and console last week. NOW at oh dark 30 he is having a nicotine fit. He will spend twice as long as it would have taken to drive to the all nite store to buy a pack searching every inch of the car for that smoke. I once dropped the key to my pickup between the seat and console. I spent a solid 10 minutes trying to fish it out of the slide assembly and wire harness under the seat of my dodge truck. Head down, trying to squeeze to where I could see the single key- you know I bought a bulky key ring ASAP- and reach down in the slot to try and bump it out to where I could grab it.

If the deputies thought they were being sneaky and didn't light him up before approaching I can see the man being completely unaware of the approaching cops.
 
very poor marksmanship. as we say in the army.... "you are a NO GO at this station"

I am always amazed at those who are in the rear with the gear being such experts on stress marksmanship. What I always heard from the supply guys was, "sign here, here and here and thank you for using Uncle Sugar's Logistics Express" :)

Manning 'run n gun' live fire tactical ranges- not so much. :peace
 
I am always amazed at those who are in the rear with the gear being such experts on stress marksmanship. What I always heard from the supply guys was, "sign here, here and here and thank you for using Uncle Sugar's Logistics Express" :)

Manning 'run n gun' live fire tactical ranges- not so much. :peace

dude. I was a 60 gunner for 4 years as an E4-E5. I was an MP for 7 years before I got into supply. When you are at a remote FOB in the middle of nowhere...there is no such thing as "in the rear with the gear". I would guarantee you that this supply guy/log wienie knows more about "stress marksmanship" than you do. just sayin....
 
dude. I was a 60 gunner for 4 years as an E4-E5. I was an MP for 7 years before I got into supply. When you are at a remote FOB in the middle of nowhere...there is no such thing as "in the rear with the gear". I would guarantee you that this supply guy/log wienie knows more about "stress marksmanship" than you do. just sayin....

Actually having spoken to many 'fobbits' it was peaches and cream to be 'inside' few firefights broke out inside the perimeter... ;)

And I seriously doubt you know anything about stress marksmanship. It means actually training under highly stressful conditions or engaging in select fire with high percentages of first round hits. Not what the 60 is known for. Most of my time on the pig was 'playing' not in a fire fight. many non infantry units barely fire the crew serves more than twice a year. The army I was in didn't put fire team leaders on the crew served weapons (E5)

MP isn't any better trained than a cop when it comes to marksmanship. When anyone has bad hit ratios at night and 'civilians' complain about it, I know they have never tried to fire even on a one way range at night with a pistol. Night shoots under flashlight, overheads and diffused light are eye openers.
 
Actually having spoken to many 'fobbits' it was peaches and cream to be 'inside' few firefights broke out inside the perimeter... ;)

And I seriously doubt you know anything about stress marksmanship. It means actually training under highly stressful conditions or engaging in select fire with high percentages of first round hits. Not what the 60 is known for. Most of my time on the pig was 'playing' not in a fire fight. many non infantry units barely fire the crew serves more than twice a year. The army I was in didn't put fire team leaders on the crew served weapons (E5)

MP isn't any better trained than a cop when it comes to marksmanship. When anyone has bad hit ratios at night and 'civilians' complain about it, I know they have never tried to fire even on a one way range at night with a pistol. Night shoots under flashlight, overheads and diffused light are eye openers.

I seriously doubt if you know dick about what kind of training I've had or what kind/how many fire fights I've been in. How many patrols have you been on under combat conditions in downtown Baghdad, Basrah or Tikrit?

2 guys, 17 rounds, 1 hit is piss poor shooting. It doesn't take a wannbe rambo to figure that out.
 
Crue, you a smoker? I can see it myself. He dropped a cigarette between the seat and console last week. NOW at oh dark 30 he is having a nicotine fit. He will spend twice as long as it would have taken to drive to the all nite store to buy a pack searching every inch of the car for that smoke. I once dropped the key to my pickup between the seat and console. I spent a solid 10 minutes trying to fish it out of the slide assembly and wire harness under the seat of my dodge truck. Head down, trying to squeeze to where I could see the single key- you know I bought a bulky key ring ASAP- and reach down in the slot to try and bump it out to where I could grab it.

If the deputies thought they were being sneaky and didn't light him up before approaching I can see the man being completely unaware of the approaching cops.
Nope, dont smoke. Which is strange, both parents smoked, ex-wife smokes, wife now smokes, most girlfriends smoked, lots of friends smoke.
Its the one habit I avoided. Somehow.
 
Well, there has been an update:

http://www.pnj.com/article/20130729/NEWS11/130729006/Mother-of-man-shot-in-his-front-yard-speaks-out

According to this update which includes statements made by Sheriff David Morgan:

Feared for their safety, but did they see any weapon? Apparently not. Was this a high crime area? Don't know but even so where was the threat in this particular instance.

I guess these cops were just the highly nervous type. Maybe a little more training on a live fire assessment course is due.

Maybe you should spend some time in a shooting environment. If you wait to "react" in a shooting situation, you end up dead. That's simply a fact of life. Action always beats reaction. That's why it's best not to create a situation where the officer(s) believe you might be about to do them harm.Spinning, lunging, or making other quick and jerky movements fall into the vategory which may get you shot, and rightfully so in my mind.
 
dude. I was a 60 gunner for 4 years as an E4-E5. I was an MP for 7 years before I got into supply. When you are at a remote FOB in the middle of nowhere...there is no such thing as "in the rear with the gear". I would guarantee you that this supply guy/log wienie knows more about "stress marksmanship" than you do. just sayin....

"Yes sir, just came over from supply". "Were you good at that?" "Yes sir!" "Well then, stick to it........."
LOL, just pulling your chain.
 
I seriously doubt if you know dick about what kind of training I've had or what kind/how many fire fights I've been in. How many patrols have you been on under combat conditions in downtown Baghdad, Basrah or Tikrit?

2 guys, 17 rounds, 1 hit is piss poor shooting. It doesn't take a wannbe rambo to figure that out.

Oh I know how many- none. You see when discussing such things people go back to their experience. Any you have in set piece daytime target shooting. Under those conditions 17 for one low hit is very bad. but if you had ANY low light/stress training you wouldn't do the 17 and only 1 hit is bad.... you'd have a bit more to say about the conditions and what training YOU had to make such a claim. (I do note you give no measure of your experience- just questions, typical fobbit dodge)

I do know what training and level of night time hits MPs and APs have. Both came to train with us- they did poorly at the night fire stage- never came back- complained of not used to a 'dynamic' range :roll:

They came in all high speed low drag- they left pretty damn quiet.

As far as 'no go at this station'- that is not used on a live fire range- i'd say you have spent a lot of time in round robin non-weapons training.

Oh, and yes I do know Dick- he has been there and done that- he doesn't know you... :peace
 
Nope, dont smoke. Which is strange, both parents smoked, ex-wife smokes, wife now smokes, most girlfriends smoked, lots of friends smoke.
Its the one habit I avoided. Somehow.

Good for you. I did for 30 years, started in the infantry as all heart breakers and life takers light 'em up if ya got 'em... ;)

that craving for nicotine can be brutal.
 
Maybe you should spend some time in a shooting environment. If you wait to "react" in a shooting situation, you end up dead. That's simply a fact of life. Action always beats reaction. That's why it's best not to create a situation where the officer(s) believe you might be about to do them harm.Spinning, lunging, or making other quick and jerky movements fall into the vategory which may get you shot, and rightfully so in my mind.

Actually a member of law enforcement MUST wait for that key indicator before presenting his weapon and using deadly force. cops can't engage on a hunch. there would be many more dead civilians if cops shot every time someone was jerky, or startle once they realize the cop was talking to them.

Startle is a deep basic reaction. cops have to be aware of how humans react when startled- you of course do not.... :peace
 
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