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Deputies shoot man in his front yard

Actually a member of law enforcement MUST wait for that key indicator before presenting his weapon and using deadly force. cops can't engage on a hunch. there would be many more dead civilians if cops shot every time someone was jerky, or startle once they realize the cop was talking to them.

Startle is a deep basic reaction. cops have to be aware of how humans react when startled- you of course do not.... :peace

Assuming that's true, and I'm not sure I agree with that, I could see why a whole lot of police officers get shot or otherwise injured in the line of duty. Most that I know follow Col. Jeff Cooper's rule that "It's better to be Judged by 12 people than Carried by 6".
 
"Yes sir, just came over from supply". "Were you good at that?" "Yes sir!" "Well then, stick to it........."
LOL, just pulling your chain.

:lamo fortunately for me, I was the guy who got sent over to supply. I was a much better MP/company CO than I am a supply officer. thank God for well trained NCOs..I just sit back, sign where they tell me to, stay the hell out of their way and let them make me look good ;)
 
Good for you. I did for 30 years, started in the infantry as all heart breakers and life takers light 'em up if ya got 'em... ;)

that craving for nicotine can be brutal.

smoke 'em if you got 'em, bum one if you don't. nothing quite like the thrill of trying to sneak a smoke without breaking light discipline. move around alot so in case your fire is seen, the sniper can't get a good fix on your position.
 
most "normal" people aren't out rummaging around in their car in the middle of the night :shrug:

There is no duty whatsoever to be "normal."
 
Assuming that's true, and I'm not sure I agree with that, I could see why a whole lot of police officers get shot or otherwise injured in the line of duty. Most that I know follow Col. Jeff Cooper's rule that "It's better to be Judged by 12 people than Carried by 6".

If you are reduced to ass-u-me ing you are clueless. Read a bit, might even have shot a bit, but nothing past that. EVERY Instructor worth their salt trains with the condition of the bad guy knows when the trouble is going to kick-off, the cop/CCL WILL BE playing catch-up. Not sure the caliber of the cops you claim to know, but having read many of your posts I have an idea.

Anyone you claim to know who follows the 12 v 6 'rule' is most likely a range diva civilian, not a patrol officer.
 
According to one of the stories I read there were 17 shots fired and the cops say they asked him to get out multiple times then when he did he lunged at them.

Frankly that doesn't make a lot of sense either.

There is also no way in hell that he missed a cruiser pulling up and the cops approaching him if he was just rummaging through the car. There's just nothing that seems to add up on either side of this story so my guess is that all involved are lying.

A police cruiser on payment to someone whose head is buried searching around a car would likely not be heard, NOR would he know it is a police cruiser.
 
This "if in doubt, empty your gun at the person" growing police training and mentality has to end. "Oops" should almost never been allowed in a shooting. Certainly not by the police.

Another problem with is that police had an "if in doubt shot to kill" policy, than it would be entirely reasonable for citizens to act upon "if you think an officer might be afraid of you for any reason, shoot to kill the officer" in self defense. NO ONE has to agree to just be killed by the police because police policy says he/she has to die because the officer is unsure of what to do or what the situation is.
 
If you are reduced to ass-u-me ing you are clueless. Read a bit, might even have shot a bit, but nothing past that. EVERY Instructor worth their salt trains with the condition of the bad guy knows when the trouble is going to kick-off, the cop/CCL WILL BE playing catch-up. Not sure the caliber of the cops you claim to know, but having read many of your posts I have an idea.

Anyone you claim to know who follows the 12 v 6 'rule' is most likely a range diva civilian, not a patrol officer.

I have both read and shot more than my fair share. I also believe that my wallet, property, health, etc... will ALWAYS be worth more to me than the life of anyone stupid enough to try and take them from me. Among the people I have learned from.... Bill Wilson, Massad Ayoob, and others of that caliber.
 
Assuming that's true, and I'm not sure I agree with that, I could see why a whole lot of police officers get shot or otherwise injured in the line of duty. Most that I know follow Col. Jeff Cooper's rule that "It's better to be Judged by 12 people than Carried by 6".

That 100% equally would justify shooting those same officers for the same reason. Yet if a friend from the house, sensing accurately the officers were going to shoot that innocent man - and that person than shot and killed those officers, would anyone accept "I felt the officers were going to shoot and kill him?"

More and more, it just accepted as sad necessity for officers to kill innocent people - and/or their pets.
 
I have both read and shot more than my fair share. I also believe that my wallet, property, health, etc... will ALWAYS be worth more to me than the life of anyone stupid enough to try and take them from me. Among the people I have learned from.... Bill Wilson, Massad Ayoob, and others of that caliber.

'More than my fair share'???? Compared to who??? A 'liberal'? :roll:

Your wallet, property and health have only ONE of the concerns a cop has. You don't know cops as you dropped that part of the conversation and drop back to CCL speak. Cops have the same 'right' to life as a CCL, but they also understand the law and again, can't shoot on a hunch. (Neither can you, but the chance of that is awfully low)

I bet you have read a lot, I know a lot of names too.... :lol:
 
That 100% equally would justify shooting those same officers for the same reason. Yet if a friend from the house, sensing accurately the officers were going to shoot that innocent man - and that person than shot and killed those officers, would anyone accept "I felt the officers were going to shoot and kill him?"

More and more, it just accepted as sad necessity for officers to kill innocent people - and/or their pets.

There's a small issue you ignore in your analogy.... The fact that the officers had apparently already identified themselves. At that point one must realize that anything othere than immediate and complete compliance is likely to end badly for them. As my father taught me many years ago.... "Even if the officer is wrong, you do what you're told and file a complaint after the fact."
 
My first thought was "he's probably black." Despite conservative claims that there are virtually no racist police, when an unarmed man is shot by police, they are usually black.
 
notquiteright, I'm not going to sit here and get into a dick swinging contest with you. I shoot more than probably three-quarters of the CCW holders in the United States on an annual basis. As for who I know and how; you're free to believe whatever you want. That's your issue, not mine. I will say this to you in closing.... I honestly hope it never comes down to that moment of having to act, because with my absolute lack of respect or defernce for human life, I'd shoot without a second thought.
 
notquiteright, I'm not going to sit here and get into a dick swinging contest with you. I shoot more than probably three-quarters of the CCW holders in the United States on an annual basis. As for who I know and how; you're free to believe whatever you want. That's your issue, not mine. I will say this to you in closing.... I honestly hope it never comes down to that moment of having to act, because with my absolute lack of respect or defernce for human life, I'd shoot without a second thought.

Yeah I kinda figured you'd shut the 'X-spurt' dialog down pretty damn quick. ;)

Oh I think when it comes down to it your lack of respect, yada yada yada will yield an unjustified shooting, or a freeze while you go down with a most shocked look on your face. :)

I figured as much, no real training, hence only the rather truncated name drop, just a bit of reading and playing on a one way range. 'Shooting more' doesn't equate to mad shooting skills, just a higher ammo bill. No training to speak of, just 'shooting' and quoting the Late Colonel...

You and I have discussed your fantasy/reality ratio before....

I'll leave you with my go to quote- Yes Sir his experience is a mile wide, and a coat of paint deep. Don't scratch it! :lol:
 
My first thought was "he's probably black." Despite conservative claims that there are virtually no racist police, when an unarmed man is shot by police, they are usually black.

What about my claim, saying the police officer was probably black?
 
There's a small issue you ignore in your analogy.... The fact that the officers had apparently already identified themselves. At that point one must realize that anything othere than immediate and complete compliance is likely to end badly for them. As my father taught me many years ago.... "Even if the officer is wrong, you do what you're told and file a complaint after the fact."

Didn't read anything that he didn't.

Do you think if his surviving relatives file a complaint and win it he will come back to life?
 
I honestly hope it never comes down to that moment of having to act, because with my absolute lack of respect or defernce for human life, I'd shoot without a second thought.

So then you are totally pro-choice in effect in the sense of you don't care either way. I didn't know that.
 
Yeah I kinda figured you'd shut the 'X-spurt' dialog down pretty damn quick. ;)

Oh I think when it comes down to it your lack of respect, yada yada yada will yield an unjustified shooting, or a freeze while you go down with a most shocked look on your face. :)

I figured as much, no real training, hence only the rather truncated name drop, just a bit of reading and playing on a one way range. 'Shooting more' doesn't equate to mad shooting skills, just a higher ammo bill. No training to speak of, just 'shooting' and quoting the Late Colonel...

You and I have discussed your fantasy/reality ratio before....

I'll leave you with my go to quote- Yes Sir his experience is a mile wide, and a coat of paint deep. Don't scratch it! :lol:

My wife's firearm training - after becoming proficient in her firearm of choice and in learning the rules and practices to follow, then when though extensive situational training with numerous people role-playing - using mini-paintball bullets in that firearm and in theirs. The purpose to eliminate most decision making to replace it with rehearsed drilled in instinct and reflect. Literally shooting makes the point of the reality of those situations. A video camera and the paint marking showed who "died", who lost and who won. Who survived. Who did not. She is a perfectionist in general and few question she is now one of the best in the county. By far.

Of myself, I will state with confidence that a person will learn more about and become more skilled at fighting by spending a collective 1 hour in a full contact sparring ring than in 100 hours of martial arts classes.

However, on Tigger's behalf, there is essentially no way the average person can undergo situation training. The military does it (to some degree). Police departments tend to do it in real terms only somewhat for their SWAT team. Citizens don't really have that option. My wife is extremely well known and liked in town including by the many of police/deputies/troopers on personal levels, and that is who mostly played the situational roles.

Again, few could ever find a chance to go thru such training. Nor be as committed to mastering it as she was and is. For that reason, in terms of firearms, I would acknowledge she is at least 10 times better than me - and only not more because I have a lot of experience in other aspects of violent conflict and confrontations.
 
Shhhhh sim training was my hold card! You can only do so much on a live fire range.

So many X-spurts go on and on about their range time or name dropping those they have read. they don't mention what many high speed schools use- the lowly airsoft systems. The school I work at used airsoft for many 'force on force' training exercises, clearing schools, domestic disputes, 'routine' traffic stops, 'drug' house raids....

Most 'X-spurts' forget what many Instructors stress constantly- train like you fight. Inject stress training by simple physical activity and then try and hit the targets. Night firing is almost non-existent in most LE/Mil/civvie training where actual holes on target are counted. Nothing gets students a hopping like airsoft in a closed grocery store at nite with all those aisles. Complete darkness house sweeps are good, as are searching for the bad guy in the dark out on a farm.

Being psycho enough to shoot first, ask questions later with a 'complete disdain for human life' only gets you so far. As an old patrolling Instructor was fond of saying, 'There are old snakes and bold snakes, but there are very few old, bold snakes'. :peace
 
I'm going to take a guess and say he was born that way

LOL...

Nobody asked why. The information, unless recently, was not released about the officers.

I say he had to be black, because if he wasn't, Jesse Jackass and other race baiters would be all over this.
 
HEY!

Didn't anyone SEE my Post #61 on page 7?

http://www.pnj.com/article/20130729/...ard-speaks-out

According to this update which (has a corruption problem but you can get to it from a link in the original storyhttp://www.pnj.com/article/20130728...uties-shoot-at-man-in-his-yard?nclick_check=1) and includes statements made by Sheriff David Morgan:

Deputies Jeremiah Meeks and Matthew White responded to a 911 call on Saturday of a possible burglary and found Roy Middleton, 60, rummaging through a car in the 200 block of Shadow Lawn Lane in Warrington, Morgan said. Middleton was searching for a loose cigarette in his mother’s car.

Morgan said the deputies reported that, after they'd made multiple commands to Middleton to show his hands, he eventually lunged out of the car and spun toward them, causing them to "fear for their safety."

"As much as we are trained and as much as officers -- which have Type A personalities -- like to say we are in control, we are not," Morgan said at the conference.

There was more info right there. Hell, by now there may be even more response about why the cops did what they did. But at the point of the update they claim they shot him cuz he lurched out of the car and swung around. They did not see any weapon though.
 
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HEY!

Didn't anyone SEE my Post #61 on page 7?

http://www.pnj.com/article/20130729/...ard-speaks-out

According to this update which (has a corruption problem but you can get to it from a link in the original storyhttp://www.pnj.com/article/20130728...uties-shoot-at-man-in-his-yard?nclick_check=1) and includes statements made by Sheriff David Morgan:



There was more info right there. Hell, by now there may be even more response about why the cops did what they did. But at the point of the update they claim they shot him cuz he lurched out of the car and swung around. They did not see any weapon though.
Yes, I read it. I also know how anyone will CYA. Should have seen the BS spouted by the police a few years back when they killed Kindra James here in Portland.

If we allow the police to shoot anytime they can claim they were about to wet their panties, then we are allowing a pretty sorry society.
 
Just saw an interview on CNN with the Sheriff.

Middleton was shot because 'he did not comply with the deputy's orders'.

What a bunch of bull**** that is.
 
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