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Woman shoots man in gas station.

She had a gun. Therefore, to ABC she is a murderer because all gun owners are, and they will make their story to prove it.
Finally heard it.

I think you're over thinking the situation.
Journalists specialize in journalism. They're often wrong about quite a number of things which are not journalism.

Imho, it's more likely that she doesn't understand why it's important to make a distinction between murder and homicide. To many people, the two words are interchangeable. After all, on TV the homicide detectives investigate murders.
 
Did he have a knife....the video was awful, but it looked like an umbrella.


Here is a story that provides a few more details.

I guess he had an umbrella in the one hand and the knife in the other.

More than once, the man shakes his umbrella at the woman as he steps close to her.

A witness, who can be seen walking just feet away, said the man had a knife.

“Too many people ain’t known he had a knife in his hand and he had the umbrella in his other hand,” Jon Thomas said, according to KTRK.

“She seen him with a knife and took out her gun and pointed it toward the ground, like a warning,” Thomas said. “Like ‘get off me.’ He kept walking toward her like he was fixing to do something, and that’s when she shot off,” he said.

If he was acting aggressively and had a knife out, it sounds justified to me.

VIDEO: Woman shoots man to death in Houston gas station argument* - NY Daily News
 
A bit of prefacing here...

1: I did not read the article beyond that of the title.
2: I have not read the thread.
3: All that I did was watch the video watching it several times and often repeating certain parts.

Reason I did these things is so as to not color my analysis.

Now with all that said...what I got from the video alone.

It appeared as if the two were having a discussion. At one point the woman opens her trunk, looks over at the man as he was saying something. She then pulls out a gun while he goes towards her and she points it out at the ground with the man standing near as if looking at the gun and her showing it to him. During that time something happened, I suspect that maybe the gun went off accidentally due to the way he moved his left foot up and down so quickly and I think I saw a bit of dust pop up just behind him. It was at that point that he hit her. Perhaps thinking that she had done it on purpose? (if indeed a shot had accidentally gone off).

That's basically where the video left off. However from the article title I can only assume one of three things... that me may have continued his attack and she shot him due to it. Obvious self defense. Or she shot him before he continued his attack thinking that he was going to continue attacking. In this case it would get much more murky and could be self defense but could also be considered as manslaughter. Or she just shot him out of anger. In which case definately manslaughter.

So what do you all thing of my analysis? I know I'm missing a lot of details that may have been said in the article but like I said, I didn't want anything to color my analysis of what may have happened.
 
I would assume that the police recovered the knife?

Have I missed where it was said what they were arguig about?

Yes, according to the article, a knife was found. I have know idea what the argument was about.

Police said a pocketknife was found in the dead man’s clothing.
 
Yes, according to the article, a knife was found. I have know idea what the argument was about.

"In his clothing?"

Wouldn't it have been in his hand or around his dead body?
 
"In his clothing?"

Wouldn't it have been in his hand or around his dead body?
The witness said he had it in his hand prior to being shot.
 
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The witness said he had it in his hand prior to being shot.
How prior makes a difference.

If he had it out at the time she shot him it is different than if he had only had it out some time prior to that last encounter.
If he had it out at the time of the shooting, he either had it in the hand with the umbrella in it, or he had it in the hand he used to hit her.

If the knife was found in his pocket, then perhaps he did not have it out when he was shot. That does not exclude him from having had it out at some other point. But it changes the calculus of the lady shooting at him before he hit her.
 
How prior makes a difference.

If he had it out at the time she shot him it is different than if he had only had it out some time prior to that last encounter.
If he had it out at the time of the shooting, he either had it in the hand with the umbrella in it, or he had it in the hand he used to hit her.

If the knife was found in his pocket, then perhaps he did not have it out when he was shot. That does not exclude him from having had it out at some other point. But it changes the calculus of the lady shooting at him before he hit her.

I don't think we know the specifics or what "in his clothes means". Was it in his pocket? Was it just in his sleave?

I think it's far too early to make any determinations... but based on the little I've heard so far it sure sounds as if it was justified.
 
Woman allegedly kills armed man at gas station on Houston's south side | abc13.com
This came across the news last night, the video is clear that the man
struck her after she was pointing the rifle.
I am thinking self defense, but not sure why she got close to him
before he hit her.
Feedback?

From the video, there's just not enough information. I think it's right to let it go to the grand jury. My initial instinct is that this was completely unnecessary. Who casually walks to their trunk and pulls out a gun if they're afraid? It looked as though she fired a shot into the ground by his foot. ?? And then, just as someone should do when threatened by a gun, he charged her.

She'd better have witnesses that he had a knife is all I can say. At the very least. Her actions make no sense. Both BEFORE she shot him and after. She casually continued her business, went into the gas station and finished up, and drove away. They arrested her two hours later. Doesn't make sense.

Here's another report: Woman fatally shoots man at Houston gas station - Video on NBCNews.com
 
How prior makes a difference.

If he had it out at the time she shot him it is different than if he had only had it out some time prior to that last encounter.
If he had it out at the time of the shooting, he either had it in the hand with the umbrella in it, or he had it in the hand he used to hit her.

If the knife was found in his pocket, then perhaps he did not have it out when he was shot. That does not exclude him from having had it out at some other point. But it changes the calculus of the lady shooting at him before he hit her.
:doh

Did you not bother to do just a smidgeon of research?


It was in his hand at the time of the confrontation.

Listen to the witness in the video.
start @ 00:56
Fatal shooting caught on camera | Video | abc13.com
 
Jesus Christ. You can't kill somebody because he had his hand in his pocket. WTF??

WTF? Is right! :2razz:
Your reply makes no sense. :2razz:
 
It doesnt appear they were "having a conversation." They were having a verbal altercation, one that the aggressor...the male...escalated. The woman felt threatened (reasonably so), and even after getting a weapon to defend herself the man continued to assault her. This is as clear a case of self defense as imaginable, with or without a knife (which he apparently had not only on his possession but in his hand).
 
It doesnt appear they were "having a conversation." They were having a verbal altercation, one that the aggressor...the male...escalated. The woman felt threatened (reasonably so), and even after getting a weapon to defend herself the man continued to assault her. This is as clear a case of self defense as imaginable, with or without a knife (which he apparently had not only on his possession but in his hand).

No offense, but "the usual suspects" are in this thread defending her use of deadly force. I consider myself less likely to just accept what supposedly happened than the rest of you here. You feel threatened?? You get in your damned car and leave. You don't casually stroll to your trunk and take out a gun. She was not afraid - quite obviously.

The only time that guy laid a hand on her was when she shot off a round and grazed him. Then he pushed her.While that was stupid, that doesn't give someone the license to kill you. He made contact with her -- so if he'd had a knife in his hand, she'd have been cut.

Cops confirmed he had a pocket knife "in his clothing." That's hardly indicative of a knife in his hand. If this is what walking around with guns causes, I want no freakin' part of it.

Tell me you wouldn't take out that gun and back the **** off to give yourself some room. Tell me you'd stand there at close quarters as she did and fire at the ground. Tell me you'd shoot somebody three times, finish your business at the gas station and drive away. Her conduct makes no sense. She's a nut job.
 
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No offense, but "the usual suspects" are in this thread defending her use of deadly force. I consider myself less likely to just accept what supposedly happened than the rest of you here. You feel threatened?? You get in your damned car and leave. You don't casually stroll to your trunk and take out a gun. She was not afraid - quite obviously.

The only time that guy laid a hand on her was when she shot off a round and grazed him. Then he pushed her.While that was stupid, that doesn't give someone the license to kill you. He made contact with her -- so if he'd had a knife in his hand, she'd have been cut.

Cops confirmed he had a pocket knife "in his clothing." That's hardly indicative of a knife in his hand. If this is what walking around with guns causes, I want no freakin' part of it.
Yes....I suppose the 'usual suspects' would defend a woman who was standing by her car pumping gas, was accosted by the guy on several occasions, and by the report of the actual witness, the guy had a knife in his hand, then approached her, and not only didnt have the common sense to retreat once she took means to defend herself but then continued forward even after she fired a warning shot.

Not sure what kind of bizarro world you live in where people that are the subject of obviously aggressive acts shouldnt have the right to defend themselves. I wonder...if the guy had accosted a cop, would you have said the cop should have hidden in his car or ran away or would the cop have been in the right to defend himself?
 
Yes....I suppose the 'usual suspects' would defend a woman who was standing by her car pumping gas, was accosted by the guy on several occasions, and by the report of the actual witness, the guy had a knife in his hand, then approached her, and not only didnt have the common sense to retreat once she took means to defend herself but then continued forward even after she fired a warning shot.

Not sure what kind of bizarro world you live in where people that are the subject of obviously aggressive acts shouldnt have the right to defend themselves. I wonder...if the guy had accosted a cop, would you have said the cop should have hidden in his car or ran away or would the cop have been in the right to defend himself?

When someone is threatening you with a gun at close quarters, you charge them. When she initially had the gun pointed at the ground, he didn't even make an attempt to take it from her.

How do you account for her casual stroll to her trunk? For staying right on top of him with her gun? For casually finishing up her business? For leaving the scene? You would have done NONE of those things. For the pocket knife being found "in his clothing"?

Having an argument with someone doesn't allow that someone to shoot you. This stinks.
 
When someone is threatening you with a gun at close quarters, you charge them. When she initially had the gun pointed at the ground, he didn't even make an attempt to take it from her.

How do you account for her casual stroll to her trunk? For staying right on top of him with her gun? For casually finishing up her business? For leaving the scene? You would have done NONE of those things. For the pocket knife being found "in his clothing"?

Having an argument with someone doesn't allow that someone to shoot you. This stinks.
I dont live in a world where you have to cower in fear when a man accosts you SEVERAL times. She defended herself. No...she shouldnt have left the scene, but every bit of video and eyewitness evidence shows HE was the aggressor and HE had a knife (you keep saying a knife found in his clothing yet the eyewitness said it was in his hand. If it was in how did she and the eyewitness both know he HAD a knife? And BTW...I carry a pocket knife with me at all times...sort of a family tradition. It is a Spiderco. Very handy. Also, potentially lethal if someone were so inclined.

Would a police officer been required to hide in his car?
 
When someone is threatening you with a gun at close quarters, you charge them. When she initially had the gun pointed at the ground, he didn't even make an attempt to take it from her.

How do you account for her casual stroll to her trunk? For staying right on top of him with her gun? For casually finishing up her business? For leaving the scene? You would have done NONE of those things. For the pocket knife being found "in his clothing"?

Having an argument with someone doesn't allow that someone to shoot you. This stinks.
Part of her problem is she left. One of the reasons this made national news, was after she shot him,
she took pictures. What came out later was she took pictures of the knife he had on the ground, fearing
it would disappear, Supposedly she left because he had friends at the car wash next door.
 
Would a police officer been required to hide in his car?
Can you make the case that the PO and the lady have identical rights and responsibilities?
If not, I am not sure of the relevance of the question.
 
Can you make the case that the PO and the lady have identical rights and responsibilities?
If not, I am not sure of the relevance of the question.
I can absolutely make the case that the police officer has no greater right of self defense than the woman. Absolutely.

See...heres the thing. Much like the Martin situation, all that needed to happen for that night to have a happy ending was for the dickhead that accosted the lady not once but several times to have not done it the FIRST time. Or the second. Or the third, or the fourth. Instead he decided for whatever reason to keep going back, to keep revisiting the situation, to pull a knife on her and even after she declared her intent to defend herself, hit her. And you can honestly view that video and blame the WOMAN???
 
Did the old guy have the knife in the same hand he was holding the umbrella?
Or was the knife in the hand that he used to hit her?




Well, can I have a link to that?

It was the OP link video (not written story). Did they change the news story video since I saw/heard it?
 
I can absolutely make the case that the police officer has no greater right of self defense than the woman. Absolutely.
Not the question I asked.

And you can honestly view that video and blame the WOMAN???
Why do I have to blame the woman? Or rather, why do you assume that I have to blame the woman?
 
Not the question I asked.

Why do I have to blame the woman? Or rather, why do you assume that I have to blame the woman?
You asked if the officer and woman had identical rights. The answer to that question is not only yes but hell yes and you could make the case that the womans right to self defense might be even GREATER. Now...do you want to pretend that a police officer would NOT have fired in that situation?
 
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