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To White Apologists/Liberals, Can you explain why Asians do so well?

Let's not forget all the Japanese Americans who were held at internment Camps during WW2 and their class act in response too and overcoming this. And... The 442nd Regimental Combat Team of the United States Army was the most decorated for bravery in that war. I have a Korean daughter in law and served with the ROK's in Vietnam so I have a special kind of caring for all Asians especially those of Korean descent.

In fairness... I don't want to discount the Tuskegee Airmen who were also a great fighting unit.
 
Mustachio said:
. As a liberal, I do think that the system is rigged against the black, inner city population, but it's not because of their race. It's because they came from a long line of people who were born poor and died poor. They had families by mistake, or because of convenience. They didn't have access to quality education so they never got a good job. These are the people we should be helping - and by helping, I mean cleaning up cities, offering shelters, education, and health care to slowly take the place of welfare. If you don't think the system is rigged against these people, try to put yourself in the shoes of a kid who has 5 brothers brought up by a single mother in the middle of Detroit. A lot of conservatives will say that even in those conditions they would prosper. That's wrong. They'd be screwed.
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by that logic...the system is also rigged against the white rural population. many of them came from a long line of people who were born poor and died poor (hell...I'm one of them. my father was 12 out of 13 kids and the first one in his family tree to ever go to college) many rural public schools are just as ****ty as the inner city schools (again, I attended HS at one of the poorest schools in my state).

as for the kid with 5 brothers raised by a single mother... "the system" didn't force her to have 6 kids, "the system" didn't force the father(s) to abandon them.
 
Compatibilist said:
I don't want to discount the Tuskegee Airmen who were also a great fighting unit.
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the Tuskegee Airmen are a classic example. Talk about having the system rigged against them. They were set up for failure at every turn and yet somehow they were able to prosper. and now, 70 years later, people try to claim that they can't get a job because the system is rigged against them? I call bull****.
 
Paschendale said:
...

Because they're often not trapped in systemic poverty like blacks and Latinos?
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To large extent, that's unfortunately true. When you start lower, you end up lower than you would have otherwise. That's not as much racism as it is about economics.

I'm honestly sick of the "victim mentality" that plagues all corners in America. As much as blacks need to ditch it, so does that subsection of the right that claims they are victims of black racists and affirmative action (and the media, but that's for another thread). Don't pretend that you haven't seen it on DP, we all have.
 
OscarB63 said:
by that logic...the system is also rigged against the white rural population. many of them came from a long line of people who were born poor and died poor (hell...I'm one of them. my father was 12 out of 13 kids and the first one in his family tree to ever go to college) many rural public schools are just as ****ty as the inner city schools (again, I attended HS at one of the poorest schools in my state).

as for the kid with 5 brothers raised by a single mother... "the system" didn't force her to have 6 kids, "the system" didn't force the father(s) to abandon them.
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You accidentally proved my point. Your father was the one of 13 kids who even went to college. How many of them died poor, or have been poor their entire lives? You are trying to claim that the system isn't rigged but you also admit that your father is the exception to the rule. The statistics show that most people who are born with nothing will never have anything, and it's because a tiny minority of them either get lucky or somehow acquire a tremendous drive to succeed.

Apparently, you missed my point. I was saying that the issue is poor vs. rich, not white vs. black vs. asian. The only reason that people focus on the problems within african american communities is because there are a whole lot more people in downtown LA than there are a few hundred miles away from LA in the boonies. And you can't get rich selling drugs unless a lot of people are around. City problems, ya know.
 
rocket88 said:
To large extent, that's unfortunately true. When you start lower, you end up lower than you would have otherwise. That's not as much racism as it is about economics.

I'm honestly sick of the "victim mentality" that plagues all corners in America. As much as blacks need to ditch it, so does that subsection of the right that claims they are victims of black racists and affirmative action (and the media, but that's for another thread). Don't pretend that you haven't seen it on DP, we all have.
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Well if you can't make it in the USA you won't make it anywhere... No offense, but even with our shadowy past and biases etc toward racial groups you can still prosper more in today's America than anywhere else and at any other time in history!
 
rocket88 said:
To large extent, that's unfortunately true. When you start lower, you end up lower than you would have otherwise. That's not as much racism as it is about economics.
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don't know, I started out pretty damn low. my mother made my first pair of pants from the cut-off legs of a pair of my dad's wornout work pants. we lived in a ****ty 2 room apartment that shared a bathroom with 3 other apartments and a dozen or so assorted sewer rats. and I turned out pretty good ;)

but yeah, if I'd have been born into some rich hoity toity family...I'd probably be a millionaire :lol:
 
Oh and BTW, the military does still provide for upward mobility. You can be dirt poor and in the military move up, get the GI Bill, go to college and make something better of yourself than your parents.
 
Mustachio said:
they didn't have access to quality education so they never got a good job. These are the people we should be helping - and by helping, I mean cleaning up cities, offering shelters, education, and health care to slowly take the place of welfare. If you don't think the system is rigged against these people, try to put yourself in the shoes of a kid who has 5 brothers brought up by a single mother in the middle of Detroit. A lot of conservatives will say that even in those conditions they would prosper. That's wrong. They'd be screwed.
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We've being helping; affirmative action, desegregation etc...the problem is complex no doubt but playing victim and blaming the past won't help.
 
greyhat said:
Oh and BTW, the military does still provide for upward mobility. You can be dirt poor and in the military move up, get the GI Bill, go to college and make something better of yourself than your parents.
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been there done that. back when I was teaching, I routinely encouraged kids to join the military. Have run into several of them over the course of the years who thanked me and said I had saved their lives by encouraging them to get out of the inner city thuglife
 
greyhat said:
We've being helping; affirmative action, desegregation etc...the problem is complex no doubt but playing victim and blaming the past won't help.
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It always gives me a chuckly when I hear some poor oppressed soul bleat "I can't do XYZ because I'm black". Friend of mine is a car salesman and this black lady came in one day and wanted to do a test drive. He refused and she hit the roof squealing about racism and how it was all because she was black. He just smiled and said..."no ma'am...it's because you don't have a driver's license". And this bitch was so stupid, she still tried to argue that it was because she was black.

When I was at OBC (officer basic course) a group of LTs decided to hit one of the local clubs after class one evening. As we are going in, they are checking IDs. They don't check me (because I was freakin 40 years old at the time). The guy in line behind me is a black dude. They ask him for ID and he doesn't have it with him, so they tell him he can't come in. He goes ballistic bitching about how they're racist because they are going to let me in without ID and they are just hassling him because he's black. I just turned and looked at him and said, "No...dumbass, it's because I'm 40 ****ing years old and look it. You look like you're 16. Stop being such a little bitch." So the bouncer turns to me and says "Do you know this guy?" and I say, "Yeah, he's one of the guys in my OBC class." Bouncer says "Is he 21?" I say, "sure is". bouncer turns back to the guy and says "go right it"
 
OscarB63 said:
been there done that. back when I was teaching, I routinely encouraged kids to join the military. Have run into several of them over the course of the years who thanked me and said I had saved their lives by encouraging them to get out of the inner city thuglife
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And getting those kids into the military would do wonders for them, no doubt.

I've favored some type of mandatory public service. Not necessarily the military (though that would count), but could you imagine how much better our country would be if you sent out truckloads of 20 year olds doing public service?
 
rocket88 said:
And getting those kids into the military would do wonders for them, no doubt.

I've favored some type of mandatory public service. Not necessarily the military (though that would count), but could you imagine how much better our country would be if you sent out truckloads of 20 year olds doing public service?
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the discipline, motivation, etc that I got from the military did wonders for me.
 
OscarB63 said:
the discipline, motivation, etc that I got from the military did wonders for me.
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Nothing makes you grow up faster than bullets flying over your head! Makes a man out of you pretty fast!
 
greyhat said:
Nothing makes you grow up faster than bullets flying over your head! Makes a man out of you pretty fast!
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****, back in my day, you grew up fast just to keep the drill from choking the living **** out of you on a daily basis.
 
greyhat said:
We've being helping; affirmative action, desegregation etc...the problem is complex no doubt but playing victim and blaming the past won't help.
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You can't fix a problem that you can't diagnose
 
The odd thing about the OP and its defenders on this thread are this: no one is more detested than Asians in our current climate.
 
Strucker said:
The odd thing about the OP and its defenders on this thread are this: no one is more detested than Asians in our current climate.
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I believe the OP was referring to The Far East's Asian population in the US.

In common language people often refer to other Asians as Middle Eastern, which is what I take you're alluding to.
 
greyhat said:
I believe the OP was referring to The Far East's Asian population in the US.

In common language people often refer to other Asians as Middle Eastern, which is what I take you're alluding to.
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Yes, that's right.
 
hidingrpolitics said:
I hear all these arguments that the legal system is racist, but I can't help but believe that this is mostly confirmation bias at this point.

If the premise is that racism in America is alive and well, then the nation should be divided into white people and non-white people. By the liberal logic, Asians, as non-whites, need huge benefits from affirmative action to overcome the systemic racism in the system, but this is clearly not the case.

How, then, do you explain why Asian people are so successful? Asians experienced a very bloody and oppressed history and were also heavily discriminated against in this country. Additionally, there was also a language barrier when it came to Asian immigrants. Why then are institutions such as college admissions so racist AGAINST Asians instead of FOR Asians? If the goal of liberals is to give those without white privilege a leg up to "even the playing field", then why are these benefits not extended to all non-white people? How come Asians were oppressed historically and still today? How come an Asian has to score 500 points higher on the SAT's to have the same chance of getting into an elite college as an African American?

How come Marian Barry, a black DC mayor, is allowed to come out and say DC needs to get rid of "dirty Asian businesses" so that African Americans can thrive and then get reelected multiple times? Why is this racism allowed? If anything, white liberals should be fighting for the rights of Asians--you have colleges holding Asians to HIGHER standards than any other race. How is this not TRUE objectively systematic racism?

It's a huge double standard, and a lot of times the argument gets boiled down to "You're not a minority; you can't understand." Well, I am a minority, and I have walked the life of one, but instead of seeing racism wherever I go, I see people who treat me with respect as long as I treat them with dignity as well.

So white apologists, please tell me why it is the system that is rigged against minorities when the most successful demographic in America is a minority! From my standpoint, the true racists are those who spout accusations of racism at every corner.
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Look at the Asian immigrants that are making it, it's generally immigrants from middle to upper class families, educated people, since that is who the US allows in the country. But you have plenty of asians in ghettos and the such, who are generally immigrants in the same way most Hispanics are.

Just like in The US most middle eastern immigrants do well, because the US allows in the educated ones, whereas in europe, that takes the refugees, many of them are in poverty.
 
Strucker said:
Yes, that's right.
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Very well, although one could argue even Middle Easterners have done well also. I realized that in a post 9-11 world things have deteriorated a bit in terms of mutual respect; however, Middle Easterners have fared well in the US nonetheless. Indians, as a subset, are the most prosperous minority in the country.
 
greyhat said:
Very well, although one could argue even Middle Easterners have done well also. I realized that in a post 9-11 world things have deteriorated a bit in terms of mutual respect; however, Middle Easterners have fared well in the US nonetheless. Indians, as a subset, are the most prosperous minority in the country.
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Sure. And while the term "Middle East" is not a rigorous signifier in the first place, it is not really meant to apply to India (nor to Pakistan), even as it encompasses part of Africa (Egypt).

So I don't mean to be too pedantic about it; only that differentiating "Asian" from "Middle Eastern" is inaccurate by any standard, pedantic or otherwise..
 
Strucker said:
Sure. And while the term "Middle East" is not a rigorous signifier in the first place, it is not really meant to apply to India (nor to Pakistan), even as it encompasses part of Africa (Egypt).

So I don't mean to be too pedantic about it; only that differentiating "Asian" from "Middle Eastern" is inaccurate by any standard, pedantic or otherwise..
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I realize that. The point isn't the correct technical term- the point of the OP was those who don't play victim, work hard do well.
 
greyhat said:
I realize that. The point isn't the correct technical term- the point of the OP was those who don't play victim, work hard do well.
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You don't think that's at least slightly an oversimplification?
 
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