Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case? [W:141]

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

ThePlayDrive said:

According to Zimmerman. Don't you love how people just take the word of the guy who silenced the person with the other side of the story.

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Racism is alive and well, but that is obvious from reading this forum.

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

ThePlayDrive said:

1. You don't understand why a lot of black people are upset? Read this and if you don't get it after that, you never will. http://gawker.com/the-zimmerman-jury-told-young-black-men-what-we-already-770650992

2. Martin didn't call him a "honky". He referred to him as a "creepy ass cracker". It was covered by the media. It wasn't covered ad nauseam because it isn't relevant. You obviously didn't watch the trial well.

This particular line that you wrote struck me:


It was Trayvon's neighborhood too. And wearing a hoodie in the rain is not "hiding your face" - white people do it all the time with it being considered suspicious. And in what world - other than a racist one - does a black teenager wearing a hoodie in the rain "fit the description of someone up to no good". Is that really what this country has come to? Where all it takes to be suspicious is to be a black kid walking in rain with a hood on your head? Really? I can't even be mad anymore. It's just sad. Trayvon's death is sad. The acquittal is sad. Your post and attitude are sad. It's all just sad and sick and I can't wait until I and other people work to fix it.

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When I was junior in college in Virginia, my then-girlfriend and I decided one night to meet up for a quick snack while studying for midterms. We bought some sandwiches at a 24-hour deli and, rather than waste time going to either of our homes, which were in opposite directions, we decided to eat in her car in a parking lot near a fancy hotel off-campus. We were listening to music and laughing about something when I saw a security guard’s headlights in the rear view mirror, and I stopped laughing as I watched him—a white man in his mid-40s—walk up to my girlfriend’s door and ask her to step out of the car. “Uh, OK,” she said, clearly as confused as I was about what we’d done to warrant his attention.

He walked her away from her car toward his, but they were close enough that I could hear their conversation. He asked her her name, a slight southern lilt lengthening his vowels. She told him. Then he said, “Are you OK? “

“What do you mean?” she said.

“Are you safe right now?” he asked again.

My girlfriend was white. I am not.


I leapt out of the car and screamed, “What the hell did you just ask her?” I wanted to see if he had the resolve to say it again, to me this time.

The security guard turned to face me. “It’s standard procedure, sir,” he said. “I was going to ask you if you were alright, too.”

“I think you’re lying,” I said.

“You can think what you’d like,” he said, a smile creeping up his face. “We can also call the police right now and sort this all out, because y’all aren’t supposed to be here and this is private property.”

I wanted to hit him in his ****ing face. I wanted to take his flashlight from his belt and smash his teeth out, giving him a real reason to call the cops, a reason besides the crime of eating a sandwich in a parking lot.

But I was a 20-year-old brown kid in Virginia. It was late. I was with a white girl. I felt embarrassed, and the thought of being surrounded by more inquisitive white men with pepper spray and tasers and handcuffs and guns only made my face hotter. And so I apologized. “I’m sorry,” I said. “We didn’t know this was private property.”

“Well, now you know,” he said.

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Really? You think this is a sad story?? That explains a great deal. There was absolutely nothing wrong with that security guard's behavior. And yet the black man wanted to hit him in his "****ing face."

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

ThePlayDrive said:

It was Trayvon's neighborhood too. And wearing a hoodie in the rain is not "hiding your face" - white people do it all the time with it being considered suspicious. And in what world - other than a racist one - does a black teenager wearing a hoodie in the rain "fit the description of someone up to no good". Is that really what this country has come to? Where all it takes to be suspicious is to be a black kid walking in rain with a hood on your head? Really? I can't even be mad anymore. It's just sad. Trayvon's death is sad. The acquittal is sad. Your post and attitude are sad. It's all just sad and sick and I can't wait until I and other people work to fix it.

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It was sad. Trayvon's death was sad. But the acquittal was not sad. What was sad is that the state of Florida charged Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder with no evidence and obvious political influence. A guilty verdict would have been sad given the evidence presented.

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

MaggieD said:

Really? You think this is a sad story?? That explains a great deal. There was absolutely nothing wrong with that security guard's behavior. And yet the black man wanted to hit him in his "****ing face."

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I thought this was even more revealing:

If you’re a black man and you don’t remain vigilant of and obsequious to white people’s panic in your presence—if you, say, punch a man who accosts you during dinner with your girlfriend and screams “Nigger!” in your face...

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Perhaps since he failed to mention it previously the security guard never said 'Nigger' but Jefferson 'heard' it. This would seem a predisposed perception of racism which to my mind is an underlying tone in all this Z/M controversy. Considering this we will NEVER get past it...imho

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

MaggieD said:

Really?

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You know what's funny about your post? I've called or implied that you are a liar, a racist, a moron and bunch of other unpleasant on things plenty of times. In almost everyone of those instances, you reacted with some sort of negative feeling - usually anger or sense of unfairness. You reacted that way, presumably, because you felt that I was characterizing and treating you in a way that is not in line with how you perceive yourself. With those reactions, you've often responded with your own internet-version of an outburst - insulting me or being passive aggressive. And I bring all this up because I would think that you, of all people given your past behavior, would understand what it's like to feel misrepresented and respond with frustration. The funny part is that - even though you have the experience necessary to empathize - you refuse to. It's sad. It's sad and it's sick. And it's not surprising.

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

ThePlayDrive said:

1. You don't understand why a lot of black people are upset? Read this and if you don't get it after that, you never will. http://gawker.com/the-zimmerman-jury-told-young-black-men-what-we-already-770650992

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I never said that black people aren't discriminated against. I'm not talking about every case that ever involved a black man. I'm talking about this case. And what I see is black people in general seeing this as nothing more than a black kid being gunned down instead of what it really is. A case of self defense. Zimmerman did not initiate this confrontation. Martin did. Martin was almost home. He had a cell phone. He was near a public establishment. He had many ways he could have defused the situation. He chose not to. He chose to confront and physically assault Zimmerman. He paid with his life. Yes, it's sad. No, it's not against the law for Z to do it.

ThePlayDrive said:

2. Martin didn't call him a "honky". He referred to him as a "creepy ass cracker". It was covered by the media. It wasn't covered ad nauseam because it isn't relevant. You obviously didn't watch the trial well.

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Sorry, got my racial slurs confused. What, you've never mispoke in your entire time on DP Playdrive? And yes, I believe it was relevant. It seemed real relevant when everyone thought Z called Martin a "coon" didn't it? But not when Martin called him a cracker? That doesn't seem biased to you?

ThePlayDrive said:

This particular line that you wrote struck me:


It was Trayvon's neighborhood too. And wearing a hoodie in the rain is not "hiding your face" - white people do it all the time with it being considered suspicious. And in what world - other than a racist one - does a black teenager wearing a hoodie in the rain "fit the description of someone up to no good". Is that really what this country has come to? Where all it takes to be suspicious is to be a black kid walking in rain with a hood on your head? Really? I can't even be mad anymore. It's just sad. Trayvon's death is sad. The acquittal is sad. Your post and attitude are sad. It's all just sad and sick and I can't wait until I and other people work to fix it.

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Actually, it wasn't Trayvon's neighborhood. He lived with this mother. He was VISITING his dad. Therefore, it is not HIS neighborhood.
Yes, he did fit the description of someone up to no good because people of similar description had robbed houses in the area. Zimmerman's wife had witnessed one such robbery. You can be of the type that buries their head in the sand and ignores facts. I won't take part in such nonsense. The fact is that young black men had been robbing homes in Zimmerman's neighborhood. Z didn't know Martin because he was VISITING. It was dark and Martin was a large enough individual to be mistaken for a grown man. Heck, he was 17. He would most likely be tried as an adult if he committed a crime. He was old enough to join the frickin military for crying out loud.
Finally, I agree that it is sad that Martin is dead. Don't confuse my attitude that Z was justified in his shooting Martin with me being glad that it happened. I'm not. I am, however, glad that the jury did not cave to race baiting and political pressure. Z was defending himself. Plain and simple. Following and/or observing someone is not illegal. Punching someone in the nose is. In a civilized society we don't punch people in the nose and get in full mount on them because we don't like the way they are looking at us or because they are walking the same path as us. What change in law do you think could be made to counteract this situation?

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

ThePlayDrive said:

You know what's funny about your post? I've called or implied that you are a liar, a racist, a moron and bunch of other unpleasant on things plenty of times. In almost everyone of those instances, you reacted with some sort of negative feeling - usually anger or sense of unfairness. You reacted that way, presumably, because you felt that I was characterizing and treating you in a way that is not in line with how you perceive yourself. With those reactions, you've often responded with your own internet-version of an outburst - insulting me or being passive aggressive. And I bring all this up because I would think that you, of all people given your past behavior, would understand what it's like to feel misrepresented and respond with frustration. The funny part is that - even though you have the experience necessary to empathize - you refuse to. It's sad. It's sad and it's sick. And it's not surprising.

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*shaking head*

I think your story highlights what's wrong with the world today. I get it. Black people have chips on their shoulder, rightly or wrongly. But that you think this guy's actions/thoughts were appropriate is exactly why race relations in this country at in the toilet from the black man's perspective.

Do you not see that jumping out your car at a security guard and saying, "What the hell did you just ask her???" is stupid?? Do you not see that thinking, "I wanted to hit him in his ****ing face. I wanted to take his flashlight from his belt and smash his teeth out, giving him a real reason to call the cops, a reason besides the crime of eating a sandwich in a parking lot," is wrong???

Nice to see you admit this, though:

I've called or implied that you are a liar, a racist, a moron and bunch of other unpleasant on things plenty of times.

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It's always interesting to me that you focus, not on my posts, but on my persona. It's interesting to interact with you, though. I'd never get a chance to meet someone like you in my real life. At least not more than once.

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

MaggieD said:

Nice to see you admit this, though

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Admit it? I do it openly all the time. I'll probably do it again 100 times. It's not something I'm reluctant to acknowledge.

As for the rest of your post, I again, find it sad to the point where I don't want to even quote it so that it will be repeated. What you said, what MTP said and what a lot of white people are saying in lieu of this verdict is just sad and sick to me. It's just a bunch of white people unable to empathize with a lot black people and unable to understand why their own perceptions and behavior are a problem. Again, it's sad and it's sick.

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

ThePlayDrive said:

Admit it? I do it openly all the time. I'll probably do it again 100 times. It's not something I'm reluctant to acknowledge.

As for the rest of your post, I again, find it sad to the point where I don't want to even quote it so that it will be repeated. What you said, what MTP said and what a lot of white people are saying in lieu of this verdict is just sad and sick to me. It's just a bunch of white people unable to empathize with a lot black people and unable to understand why their own perceptions and behavior are a problem. Again, it's sad and it's sick.

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And still you do not address my post.

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

Semper Fi, glad you are home. But since you brought it up. Having your hoodie up is not necessarily hiding your face, unless of course you are a black kid walking in the rain, with skittles and tea.

MarineTpartier said:

I am currently on leave and have been sitting at home in the morning, enjoying coffee and quiet, and watching the news. Everytime a black person comes on the news and speaks of the Zimmerman case, they speak of it as some sort of horrible atrocity. I have tried my hardest to think from the other side of this thing. I just don't understand where people are getting that this is an error in our justice system. Should Zimmerman have followed him? IDK. I probably would have considering he fit the description of most of the thieves that had been operating in the neighborhood. You see a black male, hiding his face, walking in the rain through your neighborhood. That fits the description of someone up to no good. Regardless of whether he was or not. Then, we know that Martin referred to Z as a honky. That seems lost upon the media. Anyway, Martin was in an advantageous position on Z in this fight. He very easily could have killed Z from that position. I definitely would have shot Martin from that position. Am I missing something here? Is something just totally flying over my head? I just don't see the atrocity in this.

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Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

MarineTpartier said:

I never said that black people aren't discriminated against. I'm not talking about every case that ever involved a black man. I'm talking about this case..

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You said you couldn't understand why some black people were upset - that article told you. You seem determined not to understand. Your loss.

Sorry, got my racial slurs confused. What, you've never mispoke in your entire time on DP Playdrive?

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So defensive.

And yes, I believe it was relevant. It seemed real relevant when everyone thought Z called Martin a "coon" didn't it? But not when Martin called him a cracker? That doesn't seem biased to you?

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It wasn't relevant.

Actually, it wasn't Trayvon's neighborhood. He lived with this mother. He was VISITING his dad. Therefore, it is not HIS neighborhood.

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Oh please. His parents were divorced. According to his brother, they would often stay there on the weekends like many kids with divorced parents. It was his neighborhood.

Yes, he did fit the description of someone up to no good because people of similar description had robbed houses in the area. Zimmerman's wife had witnessed one such robbery. You can be of the type that buries their head in the sand and ignores facts. I won't take part in such nonsense. The fact is that young black men had been robbing homes in Zimmerman's neighborhood. Z didn't know Martin because he was VISITING. It was dark and Martin was a large enough individual to be mistaken for a grown man. Heck, he was 17. He would most likely be tried as an adult if he committed a crime. He was old enough to join the frickin military for crying out loud.

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Zimmerman didn't know Tracy Martin who lived there full time either so no that's not the only reason he didn't know Martin. And please don't try to justify your support of racial profiling to me. When I went to college on the South Side of Chicago, most of the criminals in the area were black. I didn't look at black men walking in the rain with hoods on a suspicious because I'm not a sick, sad, racist person. I looked at them as men who didn't want to get wet in the rain. Honestly, the fact that you can empathize with that attitude towards young black males saddens me.

Finally, I agree that it is sad that Martin is dead. Don't confuse my attitude that Z was justified in his shooting Martin with me being glad that it happened. I'm not. I am, however, glad that the jury did not cave to race baiting and political pressure. Z was defending himself. Plain and simple. Following and/or observing someone is not illegal. Punching someone in the nose is. In a civilized society we don't punch people in the nose and get in full mount on them because we don't like the way they are looking at us or because they are walking the same path as us. What change in law do you think could be made to counteract this situation?

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Funny, you're still taking Zimmerman at his word as if it's gold. "In a civilized society", huh? I can't wait until that "civilization" starts giving a **** about young black guys.

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

MaggieD said:

And still you do not address my post.

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I addressed your point when I called your post "sad and sick". I'm sorry if that's not what you wanted, but you'll have to let that control go.

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

captainawesome said:

Ah so you would be afraid.

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More goading, more race baiting. You dont stop do you?

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

I have to ask. If their had been reports of a rash of burglaries in the neighborhood and white kids were the perps, wouldn't they be profiling all of the unknown white kids walking around looking in windows or walking between houses?

As a white kid growing up in a poor neighborhood anytime a window got knocked out or something got stolen, the cops always stopped us if the reports were about white suspects. It only makes sense. If you get bit by a White Labrador you don't go looking for a black Dachsund!

I can say with great confidence that if I had been in Z's shoes that night and the kid would have been white and beating my head into the sidewalk, I would have shot him all the same.

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

ThePlayDrive said:

I addressed your point when I called your post "sad and sick". I'm sorry if that's not what you wanted, but you'll have to let that control go.

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Well, when you embark on your mission to change race relations in the United States, I suggest you start in your own community . . . teaching young people that they shouldn't jump out of the car in the face of a security guard and yell at him. And they shouldn't be thinking about punching someone in the ****ing face with a flashlight for asking a damned question.

That mindset, after all, is what got Trayvon Martin killed.

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

ThePlayDrive said:

I can't wait until that "civilization" starts giving a **** about young black guys.

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Your wait has been over for a long time, now. The desire to maintain the victim mentality seems to still be going strong, though.

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

captainawesome said:

I made the point. He was followed and killed for being black.

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He was killed for starting a fight with a armed man not because he was black.

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

captainawesome said:

He was followed for being black. It wasn't for wearing a hat in the rain or eating candy.

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Suppose that's true. Therefore........ what?

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

ThePlayDrive said:

Admit it? I do it openly all the time. I'll probably do it again 100 times. It's not something I'm reluctant to acknowledge.

As for the rest of your post, I again, find it sad to the point where I don't want to even quote it so that it will be repeated. What you said, what MTP said and what a lot of white people are saying in lieu of this verdict is just sad and sick to me. It's just a bunch of white people unable to empathize with a lot black people and unable to understand why their own perceptions and behavior are a problem. Again, it's sad and it's sick.

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This is the problem, right here.

The verdict in this case has nothing to do with sadness, empathy, perceptions, or any emotion what so ever. It has to do with the law. The state WAY out kicked their coverage when they chose to charge Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder. Manslaughter with a plea to some kind of negligent homicide is the BEST they could have hoped for and they knew this. The decision to pursue 2nd degree murder was purely political and orchestrated by people, like yourself, who are driven by emotion instead of logic and reason. This case ended the only way it could have ended because George Zimmerman was not and is not guilty of 2nd degree murder. This was obvious from day one.

As for me? I LOVE this verdict and at the same time think Zimmerman should be doing some time... but NOT for second degree murder.

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

Papa bull said:

I'm having a hard time figuring out whether the racists are supposed to be rooting for the blacks or the hispanics. It's not every day that an hispanic guy shoots a black guy or vice-versa, right? For some reason this case got more attention than all the others that happen all the time, but seriously... there are so many accusations of racism going on that it's hard to figure this out. If someone is a racist would they really be rooting for the hispanic guy? Wouldn't they be hoping he'd go to prison since he's one of those "brown" people? Oh wait... it's a "white hispanic". A whole new race of people to explain this mystery.

What was it really? It was an unfortunate and very sad event. A young man died and the case for self defense wasn't so clear cut that the grand jury refused to indict, so it went to trial. The shooter got acquitted after the jurors heard all evidence from both sides and got full instruction from the judge on how to interpret the laws.

Trying to inflame racism over this is small, petty and counterproductive and makes me think racism is coveted rather than rejected by those who want to dwell on the "racist" aspect of this.

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Didn't The New York Times figure this out when they invented the term "white Hispanic"?

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

Jack Fabulous said:

This is the problem, right here.

The verdict in this case has nothing to do with sadness, empathy, perceptions, or any emotion what so ever.

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The post of mine you quoted was in reference to both MaggieD's response to an article about a black man's perspective on the trial and MTP's OP where he says that he cannot understand why black people are upset. Since neither MD or MTP can understand those perspectives, they lack empathy. That was the point. You're off topic.

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

ThePlayDrive said:

1. You don't understand why a lot of black people are upset? Read this and if you don't get it after that, you never will. http://gawker.com/the-zimmerman-jury-told-young-black-men-what-we-already-770650992

2. Martin didn't call him a "honky". He referred to him as a "creepy ass cracker". It was covered by the media. It wasn't covered ad nauseam because it isn't relevant. You obviously didn't watch the trial well.

This particular line that you wrote struck me:


It was Trayvon's neighborhood too. And wearing a hoodie in the rain is not "hiding your face" - white people do it all the time with it being considered suspicious. And in what world - other than a racist one - does a black teenager wearing a hoodie in the rain "fit the description of someone up to no good". Is that really what this country has come to? Where all it takes to be suspicious is to be a black kid walking in rain with a hood on your head? Really? I can't even be mad anymore. It's just sad. Trayvon's death is sad. The acquittal is sad. Your post and attitude are sad. It's all just sad and sick and I can't wait until I and other people work to fix it.

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Trayvon's death is sad, no question about that, but Zimmerman's acquittal is a relief. He wasn't proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

captainawesome said:

Racism is alive and well, but that is obvious from reading this forum.

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I think you are the one who is determining guilt or innocence based strictly upon race.

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

captainawesome said:

Racism is alive and well, but that is obvious from reading this forum.

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There'd be a lot less if you didn't post so many racist things.

Re: Am I Missing Something With The Zimmerman Case?

ThePlayDrive said:

1. You don't understand why a lot of black people are upset? Read this and if you don't get it after that, you never will.

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There have been thousands of black teens shot and hundreds killed since Martin was shot. Why is there so much outrage for him but not for the hundreds of others who have been killed?