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Why is "Profiling" considered racist or bad ???

Empirica

Empirica

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If my liquor store had been robbed 20 times and 17 of those robberies were committed by men wearing a blue jump suit would I be justified in being suspicious of men wearing blue jump suits?

Or does it mean that I unfairly single out men in blue jump suits because I hate the color of their clothes?

Profiling is the best crime fighting tool the good guys have in their arsenal_

It is an excellent tool for not only identifying and capturing criminals, but for preventing crime as well_

Teenagers of every color are regularly profiled in malls and shops because so many are notorious shoplifters_

No one is claiming profiling is 100% but any cop will tell you(off the record) that it's extremely effective_

Anyone who is pro-law and order should not be offended at being watched in public if they've nothing to hide_

Rarely has anyone ever been harmed in anyway from being profiled, unfortunately Trayvon got violent_

IMO, Zimmerman looked like a weak chubby cracker to young Martin, who was a rabid dog that liked to bite_

Unfortunately, this time Trayvon got bit back.....Hard_____As with most thugs, it was just a matter of time_
 
Zimmerman wasn't a cop.

Strange that the detectives I have spoken with said informants/snitches are the best tool. Maybe living in an almost minority majority city makes racial profiling a little impractical.

Physical harm and psychological harm are too very different things. Since the OP is pro law and order with nothing to hide, perhaps they would not mind having to empty their pockets and have their bags searched everywhere they went. No physical harm; no foul.

Since Zimmerman did not put on all that weight until after he was charged, Martin must have been having a vision of the future with a big blindspot in it..
 
Holy **** how many of these dumb ****ing threads can we have in a day?

"Profiling" in and of itself is not the problem. Profiling based on how one dresses or looks is simply ineffective and represents a poor understanding of how statistics works (once again, correlation =/= causation). This is why law enforcement agencies and the military emphasize profiling based on BEHAVIOR rather than appearance, because how someone is behaving is much more informative of what actions they might take rather than how they're dressed, or their skin color, or gender.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Holy **** how many of these dumb ****ing threads can we have in a day?

"Profiling" in and of itself is not the problem. Profiling based on how one dresses or looks is simply ineffective and represents a poor understanding of how statistics works (once again, correlation =/= causation). This is why law enforcement agencies and the military emphasize profiling based on BEHAVIOR rather than appearance, because how someone is behaving is much more informative of what actions they might take rather than how they're dressed, or their skin color, or gender.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with this. Profiling is not an issue, profiling based solely on race is.
 
Empirica said:
If my liquor store had been robbed 20 times and 17 of those robberies were committed by men wearing a blue jump suit would I be justified in being suspicious of men wearing blue jump suits?

Or does it mean that I unfairly single out men in blue jump suits because I hate the color of their clothes?

Profiling is the best crime fighting tool the good guys have in their arsenal_

It is an excellent tool for not only identifying and capturing criminals, but for preventing crime as well_

Teenagers of every color are regularly profiled in malls and shops because so many are notorious shoplifters_

No one is claiming profiling is 100% but any cop will tell you(off the record) that it's extremely effective_

Anyone who is pro-law and order should not be offended at being watched in public if they've nothing to hide_

Rarely has anyone ever been harmed in anyway from being profiled, unfortunately Trayvon got violent_

IMO, Zimmerman looked like a weak chubby cracker to young Martin, who was a rabid dog that liked to bite_

Unfortunately, this time Trayvon got bit back.....Hard_____As with most thugs, it was just a matter of time_
Click to expand...
There is so much wrong with this post and thought process, I don't know where to start.
 
Empirica said:
If my liquor store had been robbed 20 times and 17 of those robberies were committed by men wearing a blue jump suit would I be justified in being suspicious of men wearing blue jump suits?

Or does it mean that I unfairly single out men in blue jump suits because I hate the color of their clothes?

Profiling is the best crime fighting tool the good guys have in their arsenal_

It is an excellent tool for not only identifying and capturing criminals, but for preventing crime as well_

Teenagers of every color are regularly profiled in malls and shops because so many are notorious shoplifters_

No one is claiming profiling is 100% but any cop will tell you(off the record) that it's extremely effective_

Anyone who is pro-law and order should not be offended at being watched in public if they've nothing to hide_

Rarely has anyone ever been harmed in anyway from being profiled, unfortunately Trayvon got violent_

IMO, Zimmerman looked like a weak chubby cracker to young Martin, who was a rabid dog that liked to bite_

Unfortunately, this time Trayvon got bit back.....Hard_____As with most thugs, it was just a matter of time_
Click to expand...

Yes, to avoid profiling is kind of like putting out an all points broadcast that the suspect in a crime is a male between the ages of 18 and 65, who may have blue, green, or brown eyes, and dark or light hair. :lol:
 
Fisher said:
Zimmerman wasn't a cop.

Strange that the detectives I have spoken with said informants/snitches are the best tool. Maybe living in an almost minority majority city makes racial profiling a little impractical.

Physical harm and psychological harm are too very different things. Since the OP is pro law and order with nothing to hide, perhaps they would not mind having to empty their pockets and have their bags searched everywhere they went. No physical harm; no foul.

Since Zimmerman did not put on all that weight until after he was charged, Martin must have been having a vision of the future with a big blindspot in it..
Click to expand...

Curiously, the cops had trained GZ to profile watching for "black on black on black."

Police patrols nearly entirely rely on profiling. There are people everywhere. Some one is messing around with the window of a house. There is a van backed to a garage at another. Over there, someone is running across the street...

An officer has to decide if any of those are suspicious. Fortunately, sometimes criminals stupidly act suspicious - like running etc.

Of itself, profiling isn't not only wrong, it is reality. A person in the rain in the dark under a hood around residences is suspicious by those profile elements. Without profiling, police patrols should just park somewhere in a parking lot and wait for any calls of ongoing crimes or crimes that already happened came in.
 
Empirica said:
If my liquor store had been robbed 20 times and 17 of those robberies were committed by men wearing a blue jump suit would I be justified in being suspicious of men wearing blue jump suits?

Or does it mean that I unfairly single out men in blue jump suits because I hate the color of their clothes?

Profiling is the best crime fighting tool the good guys have in their arsenal_

It is an excellent tool for not only identifying and capturing criminals, but for preventing crime as well_

Teenagers of every color are regularly profiled in malls and shops because so many are notorious shoplifters_

No one is claiming profiling is 100% but any cop will tell you(off the record) that it's extremely effective_

Anyone who is pro-law and order should not be offended at being watched in public if they've nothing to hide_

Rarely has anyone ever been harmed in anyway from being profiled, unfortunately Trayvon got violent_

IMO, Zimmerman looked like a weak chubby cracker to young Martin, who was a rabid dog that liked to bite_

Unfortunately, this time Trayvon got bit back.....Hard_____As with most thugs, it was just a matter of time_
Click to expand...


Your message reminds me of a racist joke that seems popular around here. The bus driver says "I'm tired of all the talk about race. I won't have it on MY bus. No one on my bus is black. No one is white. No one is brown. All of you are blue to me. All you dark blue people go sit in the back."

Yes, profiling can be necessary and of itself not problem at all. And yes, profiling can cause great injustice. Depends on the motive and thinking behind the profiling.
 
Empirica said:
If my liquor store had been robbed 20 times and 17 of those robberies were committed by men wearing a blue jump suit would I be justified in being suspicious of men wearing blue jump suits?

Or does it mean that I unfairly single out men in blue jump suits because I hate the color of their clothes?

Profiling is the best crime fighting tool the good guys have in their arsenal_

It is an excellent tool for not only identifying and capturing criminals, but for preventing crime as well_

Teenagers of every color are regularly profiled in malls and shops because so many are notorious shoplifters_

No one is claiming profiling is 100% but any cop will tell you(off the record) that it's extremely effective_

Anyone who is pro-law and order should not be offended at being watched in public if they've nothing to hide_

Rarely has anyone ever been harmed in anyway from being profiled, unfortunately Trayvon got violent_

IMO, Zimmerman looked like a weak chubby cracker to young Martin, who was a rabid dog that liked to bite_

Unfortunately, this time Trayvon got bit back.....Hard_____As with most thugs, it was just a matter of time_
Click to expand...

It's about as idiotic and asinine as being suspicious of all the white people (or better yet, white males who own guns) that you meet because they make up a disproportionate percentage of serial killers and spree shooters and child molesters. So no, it wold not be justified. It just means you're being completely irrational.
 
Empirica said:
As with most thugs, it was just a matter of time_
Click to expand...

He doesn't have to be a thug to be wrong. I don't have enough information to call him that -- and I don't need to in order to be on Zimmerman's side. Hell, from what I've heard of Martin's background? I was one helluva lot worse than him in high school.

We all profile. We do it every day. We glance at someone and we make judgments. That skill helps keep us safe...when it's working right.

I'm waiting for an elevator. It stops at my floor and inside stand two guys with hoodies, tats, sunglasses and one carrying a black satchel of sorts. I'm not getting on that elevator. "Oops, forgot something," as I spin around and head in the other direction. I've done it. And it's profiling.

I'm in an enclosed parking garage walking to my car. I see a guy staggering around the garage, obviously drunk as far as I know, and decide to get an escort to my car. Profiling.

Before I flip somebody the bird in my rearview mirror, I'm going to profile the driver, too. ;) ;)

Nothing wrong with profiling by you, me or law enforcement. As long as you don't violate anyone's rights.
 
joko104 said:
Curiously, the cops had trained GZ to profile watching for "black on black on black."

Police patrols nearly entirely rely on profiling. There are people everywhere. Some one is messing around with the window of a house. There is a van backed to a garage at another. Over there, someone is running across the street...

An officer has to decide if any of those are suspicious. Fortunately, sometimes criminals stupidly act suspicious - like running etc.

Of itself, profiling isn't not only wrong, it is reality. A person in the rain in the dark under a hood around residences is suspicious by those profile elements. Without profiling, police patrols should just park somewhere in a parking lot and wait for any calls of ongoing crimes or crimes that already happened came in.
Click to expand...

No they use pretextual stops like your tail light was out; you were going 5 miles over; you swerved for no reason; you are driving too slow. Those things you mention do not involve profiling alone because they are all mixed with affirmative acts. Suspicious activity is not profiling :roll:
 
joko104 said:
Without profiling, police patrols should just park somewhere in a parking lot and wait for any calls of ongoing crimes or crimes that already happened came in.
Click to expand...

Excellent point.
 
Making judgments based on ones appearance be that how they are dressed, general appearance(size), their skin color, their age, behavior, etc is perfectly natural and is a necessary part of keeping yourself save in certain situations. Yes, many times it's not rational, but there is no reason to expect that is always the case.
 
Henrin said:
Making judgments based on ones appearance be that how they are dressed, general appearance(size), their skin color, their age, behavior, etc is perfectly natural and is a necessary part of keeping yourself save in certain situations. Yes, many times it's not rational, but there is no reason to expect that is always the case.
Click to expand...

I have done ride alongs with local cops.

Profiling works - they proved it to me one night.

I was impressed.
 
Empirica said:
If my liquor store had been robbed 20 times and 17 of those robberies were committed by men wearing a blue jump suit would I be justified in being suspicious of men wearing blue jump suits?

Or does it mean that I unfairly single out men in blue jump suits because I hate the color of their clothes?

Profiling is the best crime fighting tool the good guys have in their arsenal_

It is an excellent tool for not only identifying and capturing criminals, but for preventing crime as well_

Teenagers of every color are regularly profiled in malls and shops because so many are notorious shoplifters_

No one is claiming profiling is 100% but any cop will tell you(off the record) that it's extremely effective_

Anyone who is pro-law and order should not be offended at being watched in public if they've nothing to hide_

Rarely has anyone ever been harmed in anyway from being profiled, unfortunately Trayvon got violent_

IMO, Zimmerman looked like a weak chubby cracker to young Martin, who was a rabid dog that liked to bite_

Unfortunately, this time Trayvon got bit back.....Hard_____As with most thugs, it was just a matter of time_
Click to expand...

Stupid analogy. Being black is normal and so is wearing a hoody.

Blue jump suits are unusual to say the least.

Make one about people in jeans robbing your store, and then youl see how stupid the premise is.
 
Rarely has anyone ever been harmed in anyway from being profiled, unfortunately Trayvon got violent_

IMO, Zimmerman looked like a weak chubby cracker to young Martin, who was a rabid dog that liked to bite_

Unfortunately, this time Trayvon got bit back.....Hard_____As with most thugs, it was just a matter of time_[/QUOTE]

Holy jumping jelly beans; now that's a bag full of crap if I ever read one. The hatred is leaking... Cleanup on isle K.

Profiling based on looks doesn't work- behavior does. The real pros look at behaviors, patterns and network analysis.
 
jetski said:
Stupid analogy. Being black is normal and so is wearing a hoody.

Blue jump suits are unusual to say the least.

Make one about people in jeans robbing your store, and then youl see how stupid the premise is.
Click to expand...

Actually, her analogy would be more accurate if it was tall men hiding their face under a hood prowling in a back alley by the backdoor of her liquor store in the dark and rain - and after she calls the police he charges into the store demanding to know who she called, slamming her in the face and then her head into the floor.

For which some claim she started it by profiling him, had looked around the corner to see if he's still hanging around and phoning the police as a harassment. I mean, if we want ACCURATE analogies.
 
joko104 said:
Actually, her analogy would be more accurate if it was tall men hiding their face under a hood prowling in a back alley by the backdoor of her liquor store in the dark and rain - and as after she calls the police he charges into the store demanding to know who she called, slamming her in the face and then her head into the floor. I mean, if we want ACCURATE analogies.
Click to expand...

i dont know about all that. i just know race is a bull**** social construct and has **** all to do with crime.
 
iacardsfan said:
I totally agree with this. Profiling is not an issue, profiling based solely on race is.
Click to expand...

Let a white person go into a black neighborhood, late at night and see if he doesn't get profiled. The real bitch over profiling, is that it's just something else for the racialists to cry about. In Baton Rouge around 2003, there were several serial murders. The suspect they were looking for was a white male, driving a white pickup truck. Guess what happened??
 
StillBallin75 said:
It's about as idiotic and asinine as being suspicious of all the white people (or better yet, white males who own guns) that you meet because they make up a disproportionate percentage of serial killers and spree shooters and child molesters. So no, it wold not be justified. It just means you're being completely irrational.
Click to expand...

I can think of only 2 serial killers in my city's nearly 200 year history. Not enough to build a profile. I'm not aware of any spree shooters. People are profiled as child molesters all the time...they're called men. Try to work at a nursery or childcare center...or be a single father and watch as your kid's friends never get permission to come over.

People look at the Trayvon Martin case and say he was profiled as being black. But I suggest it had more to do with his being male or being young. Zimmerman never would have called non-emergency on a young black woman, or an elderly black man. He probably wouldn't even have called if it was simply a young black male on the sidewalk. But it was a [young] [black] [non-glasses wearing] [male] [stranger] [at night] [in the rain] [in dark clothing], [obscuring his face], [in a neighborhood with a recent spike in break-ins], [stopping in the rain to look at houses], [trespassing on Zimmerman's friends lawn] [as he bypassed the closed gate of a gated community], [where one month prior Zimmerman had called the cops on a man who was sticking his head into Zimmerman's friend's open window]. That's a bit more than "oh, he's black...let me call 911."
 
jetski said:
i dont know about all that. i just know race is a bull**** social construct and has **** all to do with crime.
Click to expand...

That isn't really the point of the op. If someone robs a convenience store, and witnesses state the suspect is a young adult white guy, with brown eyes and blonde hair, would it not be exactly appropriate to start singling out and looking for young adult white guys with brown eyes and blonde hair, to try to solve the crime?
 
Remember when someone gave a bad tip on the New England sniper about it being a white van - and how many people driving white vans were suddenly pulled out of it and thrown on the ground by a SWAT team. Damn profiling!
 
StillBallin75 said:
Holy **** how many of these dumb ****ing threads can we have in a day?

"Profiling" in and of itself is not the problem. Profiling based on how one dresses or looks is simply ineffective and represents a poor understanding of how statistics works (once again, correlation =/= causation). This is why law enforcement agencies and the military emphasize profiling based on BEHAVIOR rather than appearance, because how someone is behaving is much more informative of what actions they might take rather than how they're dressed, or their skin color, or gender.
Click to expand...

greyhat said:
Holy jumping jelly beans; now that's a bag full of crap if I ever read one. The hatred is leaking... Cleanup on isle K.

Profiling based on looks doesn't work- behavior does. The real pros look at behaviors, patterns and network analysis.
Click to expand...

For all the talk in the media about GZ "racially profiling" TM, it's interesting to note the former specifically talks about the latter's behavior* before he's asked for a physical description. When you get right down to it, he does nothing but describe TM's actions the entire time he is on the phone unless specifically asked about for a description.

* Unless of course you go by NBC's fudged transcript where he repeatedly shouts "I'M GONNA KILL ME SOME NIGGERS!"
 
I heard a joke in a similar vein awhile back.

In the early days of the war in Afghanistan, U.S. troops just miss a group of Taliban while on a routine patrol. They ask nearby villagers where they went and if they had a vehicle.

"Oh, they went that way in a white pickup truck!"
 
Racial profiling has resulted in blacks being several times more likely to be incarcerated for drug offenses, even though whites use drugs at the same rates. Profiling is self reinforcing, if a particular group is profiled, the statistics will make it appear that they are arrested more often, whether or not they actually commit the crime more often. Racial profiling has created a situation where a large portion of certain minority groups fear and hate the police and refuse to cooperate with them even if it would benefit them personally or benefit their community. Many people have been beaten and killed because of racial profiling.
 
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