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Why is "Profiling" considered racist or bad ???

Yup. Racial profiling causes serious issues, and I firmly believe that it should be cast out of the legal system permanently. If police want to profile, they can do it behaviorally.
 
Hard Truth said:
Racial profiling has resulted in blacks being several times more likely to be incarcerated for drug offenses, even though whites use drugs at the same rates. Profiling is self reinforcing, if a particular group is profiled, the statistics will make it appear that they are arrested more often, whether or not they actually commit the crime more often. Racial profiling has created a situation where a large portion of certain minority groups fear and hate the police and refuse to cooperate with them even if it would benefit them personally or benefit their community. Many people have been beaten and killed because of racial profiling.
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Any evidence that racial profiling has resulted in blacks being several times more likely to be incarcerated? Don't just throw statistics up there... because that isn't evidence that racial profiling is to blame.......

I contend there is a different reason that has more to do with cultural norms and street crime, location of use, high crime areas...etc.

But you seem to have some reason to believe the cause for the disparity is racial profiling... so what have you?
 
Empirica said:
If my liquor store had been robbed 20 times and 17 of those robberies were committed by men wearing a blue jump suit would I be justified in being suspicious of men wearing blue jump suits?

Or does it mean that I unfairly single out men in blue jump suits because I hate the color of their clothes?
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That's rather specific. Let's turn this around, assuming your premise, would you be justified being afraid of all men? You were robbed by men in the same number of robberies, so then it would be justified to be afraid of men, right? The vast majority of rapists are men. Should women be afraid of all men? I'm just pointing out that blanket judgements aren't wholly logical. It's equating correlation with causation. Unless you'd argue that black people are genetically prone to being violent, you're on shaky ground.

Now, it's my opinion that it is fine for people to, however illogically, profile people for their own safety. If they feel like they can avoid unsafe situations by avoiding people they have a hunch are unsafe, go for it. I don't believe racially profiling is going to be the best measure for you, but go right ahead. It's a different matter when people have their rights infringed due to their race. A friend of mine looks middle eastern, and contrary to idiotic statements that middle eastern people can't be held back at airports, he's "randomly" picked for a security check every single time he flies. He's a frequent flier, so I think "chance" has been ruled out.

There are something like 40 million black people in the United States, though, so I think the issue you're ignoring is that - if you are black - you're far more likely to be a completely normal, law obeying citizen than a criminal. You might have no problem with racial profiling, but that's probably because you don't get pulled over all the time because of the color of your skin.
 
lizzie said:
That isn't really the point of the op. If someone robs a convenience store, and witnesses state the suspect is a young adult white guy, with brown eyes and blonde hair, would it not be exactly appropriate to start singling out and looking for young adult white guys with brown eyes and blonde hair, to try to solve the crime?
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not really. its not much of a description. this exact thing happened to a shop near me. if i got called in based on that evidence, or treated weird in the shop, then id take my money somewhere else. the guy was my height, my build, my hair colour and was wearing a mask. im not a burglar and anyone who confuses me with one, better have a damn better reason, than i fit into the same group of 1000000 people with very basic descriptive similarities to a burglar.

if the police called me in on that, id sue the police.

but then im white.
 
Indeed.
 
MaggieD said:
He doesn't have to be a thug to be wrong. I don't have enough information to call him that -- and I don't need to in order to be on Zimmerman's side. Hell, from what I've heard of Martin's background? I was one helluva lot worse than him in high school.

We all profile. We do it every day. We glance at someone and we make judgments. That skill helps keep us safe...when it's working right.

I'm waiting for an elevator. It stops at my floor and inside stand two guys with hoodies, tats, sunglasses and one carrying a black satchel of sorts. I'm not getting on that elevator. "Oops, forgot something," as I spin around and head in the other direction. I've done it. And it's profiling.

I'm in an enclosed parking garage walking to my car. I see a guy staggering around the garage, obviously drunk as far as I know, and decide to get an escort to my car. Profiling.

Before I flip somebody the bird in my rearview mirror, I'm going to profile the driver, too. ;) ;)

Nothing wrong with profiling by you, me or law enforcement. As long as you don't violate anyone's rights.
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I referred to Martin as a "thug" because of his totally unnecessary attack on Zimmerman_

To me his actions seemed bullish and brutish and very much like something a thug might do_

Martin should have limited himself to simply asking Zimmerman why he appeared to be following him_

At which time Zimmerman could have explained the situation to him and they both go their merry ways_

Instead Martin came on loud and vulgar and seemed to be spurred to violence by Zimmerman's timid demeanor_
 
jetski said:
plus it creates a significant counter culture blow back when innocent groups of people are targeted and harassed based on race.
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What evidence do you have that the BASIS is because of their race?
 
jetski said:
well thats obviously a key issue.
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But you have no way of proving that the disproportionate statistics are a cause of racism or some other factor.
So quit assuming racism to suit your own needs.
 
iacardsfan said:
I totally agree with this. Profiling is not
an issue, profiling based solely on
race is.
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No, that's not the issue either, and in regard to the Zimmerman Case is irrelevent.

Why is it the " default " action of some young men, he was NOT a "child" to confront and pummel a guy you suspect is following you ?

Why has that become an appropriate choice for conflict resolution among some teenagers ?

Where did Martin pick up the mindset that he was perfectly justified in attacking a total stranger ?

If Zimmerman was a Off Duty Police Officer in Uniform would Martin have reacted that way ?

Profiling is human nature, admit it or not we do it a the time and not necessarily for the same reasons Zimmerman did it.

But I'm not going to let the corrupt, lying, Zimmerman Quote manipulating Media be the arbiter of what's acceptable and what's not.

Believe it or not, the Hip Hop, Thug Culture, AND the Crime Statistics from places like Chicago are just as much to blame as the White or Hipanic People are for profiling a young black male as. a possible threat.
 
Caine said:
But you have no way of proving that the disproportionate statistics are a cause of racism or some other factor.
So quit assuming racism to suit your own needs.
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Im not assuming anything. Quit trying to close down debates, because they dont suit your agenda.
 
In LA cops may go so far as to shoot you based on vehicle profiling.
LAPD, Torrance Police Shot At Innocent People In Frenzied Hunt For Former Cop Christopher Dorner

Profiling should be part of everyone's routine. Education, proper use, etc., should be trained and enforced. Simply claiming that "profiling is wrong" is absurd. Claiming that no profiling on cultural clues including race is always wrong, is absurd. Should there be limits, especially when we're talking about public law enforcement? Of course. But its useful and its going to occur, you may as well set reasonable guidelines and not just liberally ban it out of cultural sensitivity, while ignoring the downside of such a blind and useless complete ban policy.
 
Empirica said:
If my liquor store had been robbed 20 times and 17 of those robberies were committed by men wearing a blue jump suit would I be justified in being suspicious of men wearing blue jump suits?

Or does it mean that I unfairly single out men in blue jump suits because I hate the color of their clothes?

Profiling is the best crime fighting tool the good guys have in their arsenal_

It is an excellent tool for not only identifying and capturing criminals, but for preventing crime as well_

Teenagers of every color are regularly profiled in malls and shops because so many are notorious shoplifters_

No one is claiming profiling is 100% but any cop will tell you(off the record) that it's extremely effective_

Anyone who is pro-law and order should not be offended at being watched in public if they've nothing to hide_

Rarely has anyone ever been harmed in anyway from being profiled, unfortunately Trayvon got violent_

IMO, Zimmerman looked like a weak chubby cracker to young Martin, who was a rabid dog that liked to bite_

Unfortunately, this time Trayvon got bit back.....Hard_____As with most thugs, it was just a matter of time_
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1. Zimmerman did not look like that the night of the incident. He put on a lot of weight before the trial.
2. Profiling in of itself is not wrong no matter how much people think it is.
 
Why is "Profiling" considered racist or bad ???

Because so called profiling is merely a justification for race-bigotry, where merely looking a certain way subjects our People to targeting and harassment which is more than merely "bad." It's abhorrent.
 
iacardsfan said:
I totally agree with this. Profiling is not an issue, profiling based solely on race is.
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Profiling against any race? Is Al Charlatan a profiler? Is he bad?
 
davidtaylorjr said:
1. Zimmerman did not look like that the night of the incident. He put on a lot of weight before the trial.
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I agree, but he was still on the pudgy side in the photos from the time of the incident_

And an employee at a gym where Zimmerman had worked out, stated that "he was soft"_

2. Profiling in of itself is not wrong no matter how much people think it is.
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Excellent! We're on the same page here Dave_ :thumbs:
 
Empirica said:
I agree, but he was still on the pudgy side in the photos from the time of the incident_

And an employee at a gym where Zimmerman had worked out, stated that "he was soft"_

Excellent! We're on the same page here Dave_ :thumbs:
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Yes we are.
 
Sisyphus said:
Why is "Profiling" considered racist or bad ???

Because so called profiling is merely a justification for race-bigotry, where merely looking a certain way subjects our People to targeting and harassment which is more than merely "bad." It's abhorrent.
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Profiling is a means of narrowing the field of likely suspects by eliminating unlikely suspects_

Race is a very identifiable characteristic that should always be included in every description_

It is just as important as age, height, weight, tattoos or eye and hair color would be_

In a nutshell:

Street level drug dealers are usually black males 16 to 25 years old_

Terrorists are usually middle eastern muslim males, 20 to 30 years old_

Serial killers are usually white males who are loners, 30 to 55 years of age_

Illegal aliens are usually hispanic who speak poor english, 16 to 50 years old_

Moonshiners are usually hillbillies who speak poor english and are mostly old farts_

Teenage boys are usually fast drivers which jacks up insurance rates for teenage boys_

Profiling helps prevent crime and ensures good drivers aren't held responsible for bad drivers_

These are off the top of my head so please don't nit-pick! :yt I'm just making a point!
 
Empirica said:
That >>> Profiling is a means of narrowing the field of likely suspects by eliminating unlikely suspects_

Race is a very identifiable characteristic that should always be included in every description_

It is just as important as age, height, weight, tattoos or eye and hair color would be_

In a nutshell:

Street level drug dealers are usually black males 16 to 25 years old_

Terrorists are usually middle eastern muslim males, 20 to 30 years old_

Serial killers are usually white males who are loners, 30 to 55 years of age_

Illegal aliens are usually hispanic who speak poor english, 16 to 50 years old_

Moonshiners are usually hillbillies who speak poor english and are mostly old farts_

Teenage boys are usually fast drivers which jacks up insurance rates for teenage boys_

Profiling helps prevent crime and ensures good drivers aren't held responsible for bad drivers_

These are off the top of my head so please don't nit-pick__I'm just making a point! :yt
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No. It's suspecting someone based on the way they look and not their actions, which sucks, and is the epitome of bigotry. (read: sickens me)
 
Empirica said:
Profiling is a means of narrowing the field of likely suspects by eliminating unlikely suspects_

Race is a very identifiable characteristic that should always be included in every description_

It is just as important as age, height, weight, tattoos or eye and hair color would be_

In a nutshell:

Street level drug dealers are usually black males 16 to 25 years old_

Terrorists are usually middle eastern muslim males, 20 to 30 years old_

Serial killers are usually white males who are loners, 30 to 55 years of age_

Illegal aliens are usually hispanic who speak poor english, 16 to 50 years old_

Moonshiners are usually hillbillies who speak poor english and are mostly old farts_

Teenage boys are usually fast drivers which jacks up insurance rates for teenage boys_

Profiling helps prevent crime and ensures good drivers aren't held responsible for bad drivers_

These are off the top of my head so please don't nit-pick! :yt I'm just making a point!
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Meanwhile, perhaps you can help me out, since I love to camp but starting a fire is a bugger without a gallon or two of white gas to get it going. Meanwhile, ya'll can slip onto someone's lawn in the dead of night and get a cross burning lickety-split. What's your secret?
 
While studies show its true that nearly everybody profiles, and most people feel threatened or perceive young black males as menacing or scary, I acknowledge I do it. I try to stop doing it, or I move on. Most people don't call the police and chase the black guy down the road. Most people don't actually act out the scenario as if the black guy is actually up to the worst thing that jumps to mind.

If a black guy is wearing a hoodie, walks into the bank, and John Schmo starts acting like he has a gun and is about to rob the place, then the black guy has every reason to be offended.

Black males know they are more often then not unfairly profiled. Black males aren't stupid, and I would be highly offended if I had to put up with Joe Schmo just because if the color of my skin.


MaggieD said:
He doesn't have to be a thug to be wrong. I don't have enough information to call him that -- and I don't need to in order to be on Zimmerman's side. Hell, from what I've heard of Martin's background? I was one helluva lot worse than him in high school.

We all profile. We do it every day. We glance at someone and we make judgments. That skill helps keep us safe...when it's working right.

I'm waiting for an elevator. It stops at my floor and inside stand two guys with hoodies, tats, sunglasses and one carrying a black satchel of sorts. I'm not getting on that elevator. "Oops, forgot something," as I spin around and head in the other direction. I've done it. And it's profiling.

I'm in an enclosed parking garage walking to my car. I see a guy staggering around the garage, obviously drunk as far as I know, and decide to get an escort to my car. Profiling.

Before I flip somebody the bird in my rearview mirror, I'm going to profile the driver, too. ;) ;)

Nothing wrong with profiling by you, me or law enforcement. As long as you don't violate anyone's rights.
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