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If Zimmerman had been an off-duty cop . . .

sharon said:
He would have called for back up and then SPOKEN with Trayvon... No probable cause.. TM wasn't breaking the law.
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And what proof do you have that he did NOT speak to Travon and Travon didn't then punch him? You don't.
 
sharon said:
My brothers carry.. but they are responsible and cautious.. They are also well educated.
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I carry, and I would not have done what Zimmerman did. People walking in my neighborhood are not a big deal.
We have 4 separate neighborhoods that border each other.
If we start running down people for walking, we would be a tired bunch.
 
sbrettt said:
Maybe he was originally thinking maybe this guy will go away if I cut through here.
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Maybe Martin had a stash of weapons under a shrub on the dark path, or maybe he had a girl waiting for him who demanded Skitles instead of money, or maybe he was looking for an open window so he could break in and steal stuff.

Fortunately, maybes don't count for crap in court. Facts do.
 
CRUE CAB said:
I carry, and I would not have done what Zimmerman did. People walking in my neighborhood are not a big deal.
We have 4 separate neighborhoods that border each other.
If we start running down people for walking, we would be a tired bunch.
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hell...I'd be shooting kids on a daily basis. I had a couple of, what appeared to be, 10-12 y/o boys climb the fence and were dicking around in my pasture over the weekend. I was hoping one of my horses would kick or bite them before I had a chance to run them off.
 
OscarB63 said:
hell...I'd be shooting kids on a daily basis. I had a couple of, what appeared to be, 10-12 y/o boys climb the fence and were dicking around in my pasture over the weekend. I was hoping one of my horses would kick or bite them before I had a chance to run them off.
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You mean you didnt break out the heavy artilery, digital camo, extra 30rnd mags, night vision, infra red, call in some air support, order a pizza for after the job was done?
Come on man, get with the program. I is disappointed.
 
jimbo said:
Maybe Martin had a stash of weapons under a shrub on the dark path, or maybe he had a girl waiting for him who demanded Skitles instead of money, or maybe he was looking for an open window so he could break in and steal stuff.

Fortunately, maybes don't count for crap in court. Facts do.
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Coulda had a sniper on a roof top too.
 
The question is the events as we know them.

Some have commented the "cop" would have no doubt handled it different then Zimmerman, but lets assume Zimmerman is accurate in his account and that happened to a police officer. I train police officers and one thing I most certainy train them to do is NOT LOSE in a fight even if it means taking it to the next level. An off duty officer does not have a baton, taser or even mace to go too - he or she has only their side arm. If Trayvon Martin had attacked an off duty officer without warning and gotten the upper hand, gotten him to the ground, gotten on top of him, slammed his head into the concrete (as described) then yes I think an officer who felt unable to push Martin off would have fired. (that would have to probably be a small officer though as I think a larger person could have pushed Martin off).

In such a case of such a shooting I don't think there would be charges filed unless the officer was white - then maybe. If you read the MIT Media Review Service reports on this case it is the press release by "CRUM" that mistakenly ID'd Zimmerman as white and other inflamatory statements in that press release that trumped this cased into a national tragedy instead of a local one.

MaggieD said:
Out of uniform . . . still armed . . . would he have been arrested for the events as we know them?
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OscarB63 said:
hell...I'd be shooting kids on a daily basis. I had a couple of, what appeared to be, 10-12 y/o boys climb the fence and were dicking around in my pasture over the weekend. I was hoping one of my horses would kick or bite them before I had a chance to run them off.
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The Retreat is NOT rural.. There are no pastures.

Have you reviewed the slide show of the Retreat at Twin Lakes yet?
 
CalGun said:
The question is the events as we know them.

Some have commented the "cop" would have no doubt handled it different then Zimmerman, but lets assume Zimmerman is accurate in his account and that happened to a police officer. I train police officers and one thing I most certainy train them to do is NOT LOSE in a fight even if it means taking it to the next level. An off duty officer does not have a baton, taser or even mace to go too - he or she has only their side arm. If Trayvon Martin had attacked an off duty officer without warning and gotten the upper hand, gotten him to the ground, gotten on top of him, slammed his head into the concrete (as described) then yes I think an officer who felt unable to push Martin off would have fired. (that would have to probably be a small officer though as I think a larger person could have pushed Martin off).

In such a case of such a shooting I don't think there would be charges filed unless the officer was white - then maybe. If you read the MIT Media Review Service reports on this case it is the press release by "CRUM" that mistakenly ID'd Zimmerman as white and other inflamatory statements in that press release that trumped this cased into a national tragedy instead of a local one.
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Interesting. You said you train police officers correct? If I may, let's assume GZ's account is accurate as can be given the circumstances. In order to insert a police officer into the hypothetical, we'd change a few particulars.

Please don't answer this if I'm mistaken in the assumptions. Correct me and then provide your answer if you would be so kind.

Officer has notified dispatch she/he needs to investigate a pedestrian. The pedestrian approaches the car stares at plains clothes police officer, then leaves the immediate vicinity. The officer exits his/her vehicle not intending to follow/pursue the pedestrian but to determine if he/she can locate where the pedestrian was heading. To this point, again assuming GZ's account is accurate, would you advise a citizen to act differently?

It's easy to say in hindsight, don't get out of your vehicle. When I imagine, again assuming it's accurate, what would I have done? I'd have gotten out. I'm not going to let the pedestrian move away and not be able to inform the arriving law enforcement anything more than he left here heading that way. It's MY neighborhood, I live here.

As to when the altercation initiated, I believe you've offered there would be no difference.

I cringe when you say there would be no charges filed unless the officer was white. That's a horrible representation of the burden law enforcement operates, but an accurate representation of the sad state of our society.
 
Two points,

I do not believe, for the life of me, that a dispatcher would tell an off duty officer "we don't need you to do that" if the officer said I'm following the guy please send a patrol unit. I've done dispatch work - most dispatchers rarely tell police officers how to do their job.

In this case, getting out of one's vehicle was obvious. If you look at the map of the area Trayvon was apparently headed towards a walking path between homes - not a place Zimmerman could have followed with his vehicle at all. In order to see where Martin had gone Zimmerman would have - had too - get out of his vehicle. I'm not a police officer, and its what I would have done. (though I've been one).

As for my "white officer" comment. I was just reading the story on CNN about the family pushing this into a national case and the inflamatory race work done by CRUM law office that helped make it happen. So I was probably tainted at the time.


Oceandan said:
Interesting. You said you train police officers correct? If I may, let's assume GZ's account is accurate as can be given the circumstances. In order to insert a police officer into the hypothetical, we'd change a few particulars.

Please don't answer this if I'm mistaken in the assumptions. Correct me and then provide your answer if you would be so kind.

Officer has notified dispatch she/he needs to investigate a pedestrian. The pedestrian approaches the car stares at plains clothes police officer, then leaves the immediate vicinity. The officer exits his/her vehicle not intending to follow/pursue the pedestrian but to determine if he/she can locate where the pedestrian was heading. To this point, again assuming GZ's account is accurate, would you advise a citizen to act differently?

It's easy to say in hindsight, don't get out of your vehicle. When I imagine, again assuming it's accurate, what would I have done? I'd have gotten out. I'm not going to let the pedestrian move away and not be able to inform the arriving law enforcement anything more than he left here heading that way. It's MY neighborhood, I live here.

As to when the altercation initiated, I believe you've offered there would be no difference.

I cringe when you say there would be no charges filed unless the officer was white. That's a horrible representation of the burden law enforcement operates, but an accurate representation of the sad state of our society.
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CalGun said:
Two points,

I do not believe, for the life of me, that a dispatcher would tell an off duty officer "we don't need you to do that" if the officer said I'm following the guy please send a patrol unit. I've done dispatch work - most dispatchers rarely tell police officers how to do their job.

In this case, getting out of one's vehicle was obvious. If you look at the map of the area Trayvon was apparently headed towards a walking path between homes - not a place Zimmerman could have followed with his vehicle at all. In order to see where Martin had gone Zimmerman would have - had too - get out of his vehicle. I'm not a police officer, and its what I would have done. (though I've been one).

As for my "white officer" comment. I was just reading the story on CNN about the family pushing this into a national case and the inflamatory race work done by CRUM law office that helped make it happen. So I was probably tainted at the time.
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Thank you very much. Your information cleared up the question in my mind. I believe you are saying, other than NEN would NOT say to a police officer, "we don't need you to do that", a citizen, including yourself, would be reasonable in doing precisely what GZ claims he did. Of course it's legitimate for people to believe GZ is a liar, it's not what is being shown by evidence. I don't believe GZ acted any differently than other concerned citizens would, up until the point of the physical encounter.
 
sharon said:
The Retreat is NOT rural.. There are no pastures.

Have you reviewed the slide show of the Retreat at Twin Lakes yet?
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more irrelevent crappola. does the Martin family pay you per word posted or do you get a flat rate?
 
Oceandan said:
I don't believe GZ acted any differently than other concerned citizens would, up until the point of the physical encounter.
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Never in a million years would I have gotten out of my car.
 
MaggieD said:
Never in a million years would I have gotten out of my car.
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Fair enough for you personally, but then it's NOT unreasonable for someone to choose to get out of their vehicle.

Understand I'm not saying I would have done everything EXACTLY in the manner GZ claims. I'm only saying his actions were "reasonable". Of course also admitting, assuming he's accurate.
 
TheNextEra said:
And what proof do you have that he did NOT speak to Travon and Travon didn't then punch him? You don't.
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Nor that either did happen. It works both ways.
 
Boo Radley said:
Nor that either did happen. It works both ways.
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Exactly, that's my point. That's why we have a trial. For those to say what happened for sure is just silly right now.
 
TheNextEra said:
For those to say what happened for sure is just silly right now.
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No it is not.
We have the evidence.
That has not changed.

Your saying such is what is silly.
 
Excon said:
Your saying such is what is silly.
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Ok you win the internets, it's silly :roll:

Me? I'll just wait for the verdict and accept that. Do I think he will be aquitted IMO? Yes. Have I seen every single piece of evidence to make that determination? No. That's why we have trials, evidence, and testimony.
 
Boo Radley said:
You know this how?
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witness statements and physical evidence1. DeeDee, W8, whatever the hell you want to call her, claims she heard Zimmerman say "what are you doing around here". IOW...zimmerman spoke to trayvon2. EMT and investigator statements as well as crime scene photos show Zimmerman with damage to his face consistent with being punched in the nose. since zimmerman and martin were the only two there, either martin punched zimmerman in the face or zimmerman punched himself in the face. it is virtually impossible that zimmerman punched himself prior to the confrontation with martin and there were witnesses around after the shooting who would have surely seen zimmerman punch himself afterwards.you don't have to be a graduate of the Vulcan Science Academy to do the logic to conclude that zimmerman spoke to martin and martin punched him in the face.
 
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