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Doses Illiteracy Have A Place In Any Court System?

JackFrost said:
You could be White, an Uncle/Aunt Tom, Uncle/Aunt Wong, Tio/Tia Thomas, etc. Doesn't matter. White People approve blacks attacking other blacks or minorities attacking other minorities in any way. Why? Because they benefit from our dissension.

WHITE POWER!
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So support of higher standards in one's community is the equivalent of an attack? No wonder there's so much fail in the black communities. It isn't us that are messing you up, it's people like you.
 
I don't know if Rhinefire is black or not but the author of the article, Jennifer O'Connell, makes some very important points that we need to keep in mind no matter what our race.

The fact of the matter is that one's close community (family, friends, neighborhood, church, etc.) will always be a fallback position for them. That is the circle in which you can comfortably let your hair down a little express yourself in ways that might not be as accepted outside that community. These people are people that I know and my family knows...people that not only know me by name but also know me by reputation. It's like the difference between being a "noob" on an internet forum and being one of the "tried and true". If you're known then people pick up on little "inside jokes" and sarcasm while someone from outside the close community will not be able to do so.

The problem we run into (and what Rachel evidenced) is that it's relatively simple to be so comfortable in one's close community that you never escape it. If you step outside your close community and express yourself "normally" it's possible that others will not catch the nuances of your words and behavior. They might even find those words and behaviors to be confusing or frightening. At that point you have two options. You can either change your words and behavior to conform to that "outside norm" or you can keep trying to bang your head against the wall hoping that they change to understand you. It should be rather obvious that the former method will have a much greater chance for immediate success than the latter will.

What Ms. O'Connell points out is that in many black communities (and, out here, Hispanic communities) the youth do not get any encouragement to fit in with other communities, they simply get reinforcement that those communities will be challenging to them. The result is that kids who fail to fit in in the community at large become insulated by the close community. The kids says "It's hard to fit in out there" and the community says "They'll never understand you" and the cycle of isolation and insulation continues because no standard for success is ever expected.
 
I don't see that she was illiterate at all. I just saw insolence and contemptuousness and flat out rudeness. I didn't see any kind of disability with regards to her at all - learning or physical. I just saw someone who was uncivil to almost anyone that talked to her. I've even heard it said that she had a speech impediment. I didn't notice a speech impediment. She spoke very, very quietly, very softly. And very rudely.

I was honestly surprised that she was not spoken to about it - especially her first day. Telling West, "You listenin' to me?" when he asked her a question that she'd already answered. I understand that she was frustrated that he was repeating some of his questions, but there was no need for her attitude - in a courtroom setting, no less. :roll:
 
JackFrost said:
That is exactly my point. White People approve all messages from Uncle Tom's and Aunt Jemima's. This message is no different.

White way or the wrong way. There is no other option.
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It was an intelligent, insightful well thought out OP. Pretty much the exact opposite of all of your contributions to this thread.
 
Lutherf said:
So support of higher standards in one's community is the equivalent of an attack? No wonder there's so much fail in the black communities. It isn't us that are messing you up, it's people like you.
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The OP rhinefire grouped Rachel Jeantel, whose parents were from Haiti and spoke no English, to "Modern Blacks" in America. It is an attack.

With the knowledge that no English was spoken in the home, Rachel Jeantel had to have gone through ESL (English as a Second Language) and remedial classes all her life. If she did go through regular classes, well then, we know why she failed them. Try taking a class in a language you do not speak and see how well you do:lol:

Modern blacks my ass:roll:
 
JackFrost said:
The OP rhinefire grouped Rachel Jeantel, whose parents were from Haiti and spoke no English, to "Modern Blacks" in America. It is an attack.

With the knowledge that no English was spoken in the home, Rachel Jeantel had to have gone through ESL (English as a Second Language) and remedial classes all her life. If she did go through regular classes, well then, we know why she failed them. Try taking a class in a language you do not speak and see how well you do:lol:

Modern blacks my ass:roll:
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If she uses twitter/facebook then she's a modern black
 
X Factor said:
It was an intelligent, insightful well thought out OP. Pretty much the exact opposite of all of your contributions to this thread.
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The OP rhinefire compared Rachel Jeantel, who took English as a Second Language / Special Education classes to "Modern Blacks", meaning all "Modern Blacks" learn another language before English.

The OP, as well as all the White supporters here, look at her skin color, and assume she is representative of "Modern Blacks".
 
JackFrost said:
The OP rhinefire grouped Rachel Jeantel, whose parents were from Haiti and spoke no English, to "Modern Blacks" in America. It is an attack.

With the knowledge that no English was spoken in the home, Rachel Jeantel had to have gone through ESL (English as a Second Language) and remedial classes all her life. If she did go through regular classes, well then, we know why she failed them. Try taking a class in a language you do not speak and see how well you do:lol:

Modern blacks my ass:roll:
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She was born here and lived here her whole life. Like many, many children in immigrant households she learned english right along with Creole or Spanish or whatever language was used at home.
 
JackFrost said:
The OP rhinefire grouped Rachel Jeantel, whose parents were from Haiti and spoke no English, to "Modern Blacks" in America. It is an attack.

With the knowledge that no English was spoken in the home, Rachel Jeantel had to have gone through ESL (English as a Second Language) and remedial classes all her life. If she did go through regular classes, well then, we know why she failed them. Try taking a class in a language you do not speak and see how well you do:lol:

Modern blacks my ass:roll:
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I've had many students whose home language is not English and who took ESL classes, but didn't go to remedial classes all their lives, or even at all.

The key to learning at a high level is attitude and motivation.

Give me a class of kids who don't speak English, but whose parents expect them to succeed and see to it that they do, and they'll be ahead of the curve in two years or less.
 
JackFrost;1061991667The OP said:
all the White supporters [/B]here, look at her skin color, and assume she is representative of "Modern Blacks".
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JF. you should be carefull in making such statements of "all" without providing creditable backup evidence. Since I disagree with you, you cannot prove your statement. I just looked at her as not a very reliable witness. It has nothing to do with her skin color or the way she talks.

To me your bias is showing.
 
No reason for Rachel Jeante not to speak standard American English. Beyond having attended American schools all her life, I'll bet you a dollar she has a TV in her home. Anybody who wants to learn basic English can simply turn on the tube, and I know many immigrants who have taught themselves rudimentary English in this way. Jeante's being barely literate has been her choice all along.
 
nota bene said:
No reason for Rachel Jeante not to speak standard American English. Beyond having attended American schools all her life, I'll bet you a dollar she has a TV in her home. Anybody who wants to learn basic English can simply turn on the tube, and I know many immigrants who have taught themselves rudimentary English in this way. Jeante's being barely literate has been her choice all along.
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I happen to agree with that statement.. One of my sons wanted to lose his Southern accent.. He listened to Ted Kopell .
 
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