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Jose Baez: Evidence 'so weak' in George Zimmerman case

buck

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Oops... Serino's attorney doesn't think much of hte case against Zimmerman.
"I have never seen a high-profile case that is so weak as the Zimmerman case," Baez told Lauren Rowe on WKMG-Channel 6's "Flashpoint." The program aired Sunday morning.

Baez cited several reasons for his take on the Zimmerman evidence: The only eyewitness says that Martin was on top during the fight, and Zimmerman told law enforcement he was screaming for help during the fight, a point backed up by a 911 tape.

But Baez refused to predict an ending. "You can't call this one without letting it play out," he said. "You just never know what's going to happen. You can't call it. Trials are not scripted events."

You can view the video by clicking the hyperlinked above.

Edit: The Zimmerman stuff starts around 7:30
 
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Evidence?! The Trayvon commandos don't need no stinkin' evidence!
 
It totally depends on the jury's attitude. Most that support a guilty verdict seem to willingly ignore the evidence of assault and battery by TM and concentrate only on the "injustice" of the shooting death of a young lad skipping home with a gift of Skittles for an even younger lad. Those on the jury that oppose, in principle, any gun use by civilians (and there are plenty of them) may use this trial to "send a message" and simply consider GZ as unfortunate collateral damage for the greater good. Much of the MSM seems to favor this angle. Unfortunately many seem to wish to try the SYG and CHL permit laws rather than pay any particular attention to the specifics of this single case. Was GZ a moron that made some bad decisions? Yes. Does that make it right for TM to beat him up? No. Is one being violently assaulted legally allowed to use deadly force? Yes. I predict not guilty, based on the self defense aspect alone, but as Jose Baez notes - anything is possible with a Floriduh jury, and he knows that territory very well. ;)
 
It totally depends on the jury's attitude. Most that support a guilty verdict seem to willingly ignore the evidence of assault and battery by TM and concentrate only on the "injustice" of the shooting death of a young lad skipping home with a gift of Skittles for an even younger lad. Those on the jury that oppose, in principle, any gun use by civilians (and there are plenty of them) may use this trial to "send a message" and simply consider GZ as unfortunate collateral damage for the greater good. Much of the MSM seems to favor this angle. Unfortunately many seem to wish to try the SYG and CHL permit laws rather than pay any particular attention to the specifics of this single case. Was GZ a moron that made some bad decisions? Yes. Does that make it right for TM to beat him up? No. Is one being violently assaulted legally allowed to use deadly force? Yes. I predict not guilty, based on the self defense aspect alone, but as Jose Baez notes - anything is possible with a Floriduh jury, and he knows that territory very well. ;)

Well said. I agree with most of it.
 
It totally depends on the jury's attitude. Most that support a guilty verdict seem to willingly ignore the evidence of assault and battery by TM and concentrate only on the "injustice" of the shooting death of a young lad skipping home with a gift of Skittles for an even younger lad. Those on the jury that oppose, in principle, any gun use by civilians (and there are plenty of them) may use this trial to "send a message" and simply consider GZ as unfortunate collateral damage for the greater good. Much of the MSM seems to favor this angle. Unfortunately many seem to wish to try the SYG and CHL permit laws rather than pay any particular attention to the specifics of this single case. Was GZ a moron that made some bad decisions? Yes. Does that make it right for TM to beat him up? No. Is one being violently assaulted legally allowed to use deadly force? Yes. I predict not guilty, based on the self defense aspect alone, but as Jose Baez notes - anything is possible with a Floriduh jury, and he knows that territory very well. ;)

That is, of course, presuming that they actually found some competent juries that haven't been contaminated by the media bias and other sources of information so that they go in court with their minds already made up. I'm assuming that is what you mean by your last statement, which if so, I agree fully.

I mean really. This is insane.

When I want a good murder, I read Agatha Christie or watch the adaptation of her books in Poirot played brilliantly by David Suchet. I don't watch the news for a completely irrelevant, uninteresting murder that happened with a nobody killing another nobody.
 
That is, of course, presuming that they actually found some competent juries that haven't been contaminated by the media bias and other sources of information so that they go in court with their minds already made up. I'm assuming that is what you mean by your last statement, which if so, I agree fully.

I mean really. This is insane.

When I want a good murder, I read Agatha Christie or watch the adaptation of her books in Poirot played brilliantly by David Suchet. I don't watch the news for a completely irrelevant, uninteresting murder that happened with a nobody killing another nobody.

The bolded is 99% of the murder cases that occur, what is rare is for them to actually go to trial. This was billed, as you noted, as a racially motivated or "profiling" case. The MSM theory being that only TM's may walk, observe their surroundings and make foolish decisions; anything that interferes with that "right" is worthy of a good, old fashioned, ass whoopin'. Those that see GZ as the "instigator" because he did not know that TM was simply ambling aimlessly home from the store, likely stoned and talking to his GF, blame him for daring to "disrespect" TM's right to pass unnoticed. This is only a "tough call" if you ignore who initiated the assault and battery; you have no right to "punch out" those that dare to observe/follow you in public.
 
It totally depends on the jury's attitude. Most that support a guilty verdict seem to willingly ignore the evidence of assault and battery by TM and concentrate only on the "injustice" of the shooting death of a young lad skipping home with a gift of Skittles for an even younger lad. Those on the jury that oppose, in principle, any gun use by civilians (and there are plenty of them) may use this trial to "send a message" and simply consider GZ as unfortunate collateral damage for the greater good. Much of the MSM seems to favor this angle. Unfortunately many seem to wish to try the SYG and CHL permit laws rather than pay any particular attention to the specifics of this single case. Was GZ a moron that made some bad decisions? Yes. Does that make it right for TM to beat him up? No. Is one being violently assaulted legally allowed to use deadly force? Yes. I predict not guilty, based on the self defense aspect alone, but as Jose Baez notes - anything is possible with a Floriduh jury, and he knows that territory very well. ;)

Trayvon Martin "beat up" George Zimmerman for the exact same reason George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin, because he was afraid for his life. That's hardly surprising given the context, as Zimmerman was behaving extremely suspiciously during the chase and towards its conclusion. The man wasn't nearly skilled or responsible enough to take any kind of action against a perceived criminal.
 
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Trayvon Martin "beat up" George Zimmerman for the exact same reason George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin, because he was afraid for his life. That's hardly surprising given the context, as Zimmerman was behaving extremely suspiciously during the chase and towards its conclusion. The man wasn't nearly skilled or responsible enough to take any kind of action against a perceived criminal.
before being assaulted by martin, please describe the kinds of actions zimmerman took against martin
 
before being assaulted by martin, please describe the kinds of actions zimmerman took against martin

In abstract:

(1) Zimmerman tails Martin

(2) Martin attempts to evade Zimmerman

(3) Zimmerman jumps from his car and continues to pursue Martin (even after warned "they did not need him to do that")

As known, that is already grounds for manslaughter. Pursuing someone when you don't have a symbol of authority makes your standing to them ambiguous and your motivations a big x-factor. Pursuing someone when you don't have the diplomatic and martial skillset to prevent or diffuse an altercation without resorting to lethal force is irresponsible.
 
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In abstract:

(1) Zimmerman tails Martin
notice that zimmerman did nothing harmful to martin

(2) Martin attempts to evade Zimmerman
notice that zimmerman still did nothing harmful towards martin

(3) Zimmerman jumps from his car and continues to pursue Martin
while i take objection to the word "pursue" and would find the term "monitored his location" more accurate, either way notice that zimmerman did nothing harmful towards martin

(even after warned "they did not need him to do that")
that was no warning. that was expressing to zimmerman that he had no obligation to monitor the suspected perp's whereabouts, despite having called in to report his suspicious behavior

As known, that is already grounds for manslaughter.
nope. that is NOT known. what is known is that there is no evidence held by the state which undermines zimmerman's assertion of self defense ... at least not as of the date of the initial bail hearing when the state's witness made that sworn statement

Pursuing someone when you don't have a symbol of authority makes your standing to them ambiguous
you seem to believe that martin had rights of free movement that zimmerman did not
why was it inappropriate for zimmerman to monitor the location of the person he phoned the police about based on what he observed to be suspicious behavior

and your motivations a big x-factor.
share with us what those motivations were and how you can prove those motivations existed

Pursuing someone when you don't have the diplomatic and martial skillset to prevent or diffuse an altercation without resorting to lethal force is irresponsible.
first, there was NO pursuing. there was certainly monitoring of martin's whereabouts by zimmerman. but that is not illegal or immoral or inappropriate
you presume that zimmerman had reason to believe martin was prone to become violent and attack him
i do not share your presumption and therefor believe zimmerman's actions should not be found irresponsible
 
In abstract:

(1) Zimmerman tails Martin

(2) Martin attempts to evade Zimmerman

(3) Zimmerman jumps from his car and continues to pursue Martin (even after warned "they did not need him to do that")

As known, that is already grounds for manslaughter. Pursuing someone when you don't have a symbol of authority makes your standing to them ambiguous and your motivations a big x-factor. Pursuing someone when you don't have the diplomatic and martial skillset to prevent or diffuse an altercation without resorting to lethal force is irresponsible.

Legally, you don't have a foot to stand on

You have squat
 
The case against George Zimmerman is crumbling by the day. I don't know how the Prosecution can ever come back:lamo

1. Star Witness allegedly lies about going to the hospital

2. Defense Waives Immunity hearing, wants to go to trial and be acquitted by a jury of six

3. Jose Baez says the evidence is so weak against Zimmerman while promoting his new book

I mean why in the world would a defendant want to be both criminally and civilly immune from charges? Especially since the Prosecution's <Star Witness> allegedly lied about going to the hospital, and the evidence being so weak against the defendant:confused:
 
This is a weary exercise.

notice that zimmerman did nothing harmful to martin

Which is irrelevant. Unless otherwise signaled, his intentions were an x factor.

notice that zimmerman still did nothing harmful towards martin

Regardless, if someone trails you in their vehicle and then jumps out and starts running after you without any indication as to why, probability goes they intend you some kind of harm. They might want to give you a million dollars, but odds are they don't.

while i take objection to the word "pursue" and would find the term "monitored his location" more accurate, either way notice that zimmerman did nothing harmful towards martin

... okay. Given how close they were to Trayvon's residence, 'pursued' seems like the more appropriate term.


that was no warning. that was expressing to zimmerman that he had no obligation to monitor the suspected perp's whereabouts, despite having called in to report his suspicious behavior

I'll play your game and ask, "What suspicious behavior?"


nope. that is NOT known. what is known is that there is no evidence held by the state which undermines zimmerman's assertion of self defense ... at least not as of the date of the initial bail hearing when the state's witness made that sworn statement

He helped create the situation he had to defend himself against.


you seem to believe that martin had rights of free movement that zimmerman did not

Free movement is not the issue. Zimmerman directed hostile body language (pursuing) against someone who had no concept of his intentions.

why was it inappropriate for zimmerman to monitor the location of the person he phoned the police about based on what he observed to be suspicious behavior

I already told you. Because he did not have a symbol of authority or the skillset to deal with the situation.


share with us what those motivations were and how you can prove those motivations existed

... what? I said was when you pursue someone without indicating why you are pursuing someone is that your motivations are unknown to the person whom you are pursuing.

first, there was NO pursuing. there was certainly monitoring of martin's whereabouts by zimmerman. but that is not illegal or immoral or inappropriate

Monitoring someone's location when they are trying to get away from them entails pursuing them. Nothing you do or say can change that.

Whether or not it is illegal is sketchy due to the nebulous nature of manslaughter and lesser degree murders. If Martin and Trayvon had simply had a brawl, a different type of legal encounter would be ordered around whether Zimmerman's pursuit passes for provocation. In this case, it is whether Zimmerman's previous behavior contributed to the altercation and whether or not that makes his use of lethal force reprehensible.
 
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Legally, you don't have a foot to stand on


You have squat


Because that guy said so?


Not really how manslaughter and lesser degree murder charges work.


The only thing you needed to be guilty of manslaughter is (1) incompetent (2) you have to have killed someone. We know George Zimmerman is incompetent because his pursuit ended with him getting pummeled by someone who was rightfully in fear of their life and shooting said person. When the supposed goal is to monitor their location, the fact he engaged or even got engaged by Martin (whichever) meant was he unable to perform supposed goal and ended up killing someone.


Lesser degree murder is basically that, but add to it maliciousness.
 
Trayvon Martin "beat up" George Zimmerman for the exact same reason George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin, because he was afraid for his life.
Simply saying you are wrong should suffice, as Trayvon laid in wait for Zimmerman and effectuated his attack when Zimmerman's back was to him.
That shows your assertion to be false.


as Zimmerman was behaving extremely suspiciously during the chase and towards its conclusion.
There was no chase. Following to keep eyes on a suspicious person, is not chasing.


This is a weary exercise.
Of course it is because your position is wrong and based off fallacy.


Which is irrelevant.
No they are not irrelevant.


Regardless, if someone trails you in their vehicle and then jumps out and starts running after you without any indication as to why, probability goes they intend you some kind of harm. They might want to give you a million dollars, but odds are they don't.
What you say is irrelevant to Trayvon laying in wait and attacking.

Zimmerman's intent to keep eyes on Trayvon until the police arrived is reasonable.


... okay. Given how close they were to Trayvon's residence, 'pursued' seems like the more appropriate term.
It is even a more absurd description. Pursuit entails a capture. Their was no pursuit. But a person following to keep another under observation. Which there is nothing wrong with.
On the other hand, Trayvon's actions of attacking are illegal.


I'll play your game and ask, "What suspicious behavior?"
Showing you have no clue as to what the real evidence is.
Zimmerman saw Trayvon looking into the homes. And doing so while walking slowly in the rain instead of trying to get out of it. That would appear to be casing to anybody.


He helped create the situation he had to defend himself against.
That is a game you are playing.
As the same could be said about Trayvon circling Zimmerman's vehicle.
Point of fact is that Trayvon is the who acted out violently. Laying in wait and effectuating his attack when Zimmerman's back was to him.
Zimmerman did nothing to create that. That is all on Trayvon.


Zimmerman directed hostile body language (pursuing) against someone who had no concept of his intentions.
BS!
There was no pursuit.


I already told you. Because he did not have a symbol of authority or the skillset to deal with the situation.
And you are wrong. As any member of a community can and should act this way to protect their community, nor does it require any specific skill set. The only thing it requires is concern.


I said was when you pursue someone without indicating why you are pursuing someone is that your motivations are unknown to the person whom you are pursuing.
One, there was no pursuit so your narrative is off.
Trying to keep eyes on someone is not pursuit. Trying to keep eyes on a person does not entail catching as pursuing does. Nor does it entail confronting.
Trayvon was the one in error for what he may believed about this and responding violently.


Monitoring someone's location when they are trying to get away from them entails pursuing them. Nothing you do or say can change that.
Wrong!
It entails following, which is different than pursuit.


The only thing you needed to be guilty of manslaughter is (1) incompetent (2) you have to have killed someone.
Wrong!
And isn't even the case here.
So irrelevant bs on your part.


We know George Zimmerman is incompetent because his pursuit ended with him getting pummeled by someone who was rightfully in fear of their life and shooting said person.
Wrong! Trayvon laid in wait and attacked. That is not him being in fear of anything.
 
Legally, you don't have a foot to stand on

You have squat

There are neighbors who will testify to George patrolling the neighborhood in his car with the lights off or following them home and scaring them. George has a personality disorder. He's no hero.. He's an idiot with a gun... and a disgrace to responsible gun owners. Further, he's a liability to the defense. Why would an excon champion a fool?
 
There are neighbors who will testify to George patrolling the neighborhood in his car with the lights off or following them home and scaring them. George has a personality disorder. He's no hero.. He's an idiot with a gun... and a disgrace to responsible gun owners. Further, he's a liability to the defense. Why would an excon champion a fool?
link please
 
I am weary of this.. George is a stupid person with a gun and an obsession who killed and unarmed teen ager. What is the deal with defending him? He's an idiot.

As much as you think Zimm is an idiot, I bet even he could do the math and figure out that Trayvon only "ran" 100 feet in a bit over 3 minutes... Rather then deal with the facts, why not just call Zimmerman more names. It's easiest to just dehumanize an individual rather then trying to figure out what Trayvon was doing other then running - running so far and fast that, according to Dee, he was exhausted.
 
As much as you think Zimm is an idiot, I bet even he could do the math and figure out that Trayvon only "ran" 100 feet in a bit over 3 minutes... Rather then deal with the facts, why not just call Zimmerman more names. It's easiest to just dehumanize an individual rather then trying to figure out what Trayvon was doing other then running - running so far and fast that, according to Dee, he was exhausted.

George dehumanized Trayvon and then killed him as a prop in his cop fantasy.
 
George dehumanized Trayvon and then killed him as a prop in his cop fantasy.

You really are a nut... But wether Zimm did or did not dehmanize has zero to do with you dehumnanizing... And ignoring facts such as zimm running 100 feet in 3 minutes.
 
Because that guy said so?


Not really how manslaughter and lesser degree murder charges work.


The only thing you needed to be guilty of manslaughter is (1) incompetent (2) you have to have killed someone. We know George Zimmerman is incompetent because his pursuit ended with him getting pummeled by someone who was rightfully in fear of their life and shooting said person. When the supposed goal is to monitor their location, the fact he engaged or even got engaged by Martin (whichever) meant was he unable to perform supposed goal and ended up killing someone.


Lesser degree murder is basically that, but add to it maliciousness.

1 What evidence do you have that M was fearful?

2 Z head injuries, on the other hand can be readily shown to prompt reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury through physical evidence, witness and expert medical testimony.

3 Z can also add support to his primary fear, the fear he felt M was going for his gun which is... the fear of loss of weapon
 
1 What evidence do you have that M was fearful?

2 Z head injuries, on the other hand can be readily shown to prompt reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury through physical evidence, witness and expert medical testimony.

3 Z can also add support to his primary fear, the fear he felt M was going for his gun which is... the fear of loss of weapon

A SYG hearing requires you to provide a preponderance of evidence high you've failed to do
 
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