George Zimmerman: WKMG studies where he gains, loses credibility

buck · Feb 10, 2013

I believe this analysis to be accurate and predominantly supports the defense in addition to punching a whole lot of holes in Sharon's opinions which are mainly based in emotions.

George Zimmerman: WKMG studies where he gains, loses credibility – The TV Guy – Orlando Sentinel

WKMG legal analyst Luis Calderon said the timeline shows that Martin had “plenty of time” to get home and “it’s obvious something made him stay there.”

The timeline hurts Zimmerman’s credibility, Pipitone said, if people want to believe that he was walking to his truck and was attacked by Martin. “So much time is unaccounted for that would allow him to get him back to the truck,” Pipitone said.

In his report’s second part, Pipitone looked at the burn marks and gunshot residue that would have been left after Martin was wounded. That evidence supports Zimmerman’s claim that he was under Martin when the teen was shot, Pipitone said.
Calderon said it’s important for the defense to highlight there was one shot and stress the angle of that shot. “It’s the key to their self-defense argument,” Calderon said. “Without that, they basically have no case.”
Pipitone added, “This does give credibility to Mr. Zimmerman when he testifies.”

Rainman05 · Feb 10, 2013

This is still... a thing? Jesus.

lemmiwinx · Feb 10, 2013

You never know, you just have to stay involved.

shrubnose · Feb 10, 2013

Hmm.

Interesting. Now we know where that guy came from.

JackFrost · Feb 10, 2013

buck said:
I believe this analysis to be accurate and predominantly supports the defense in addition to punching a whole lot of holes in Sharon's opinions which are mainly based in emotions.

George Zimmerman: WKMG studies where he gains, loses credibility – The TV Guy – Orlando Sentinel

WKMG legal analyst Luis Calderon said the timeline shows that Martin had “plenty of time” to get home and “it’s obvious something made him stay there.”

The timeline hurts Zimmerman’s credibility, Pipitone said, if people want to believe that he was walking to his truck and was attacked by Martin. “So much time is unaccounted for that would allow him to get him back to the truck,” Pipitone said.

1. Indeed, GZ was doing anything BUT going back to his vehicle.

2. I am confident GZ will get destroyed on the stand with all of his inconsistencies. His downfall will be an unwillingness to get a lawyer right away, and talking to the police. Not sure why he would have done that, especially with his "education", and both parents backgrounds.

buck · Feb 10, 2013

hawke812 said:
WKMG legal analyst Luis Calderon said the timeline shows that Martin had “plenty of time” to get home and “it’s obvious something made him stay there.”

The timeline hurts Zimmerman’s credibility, Pipitone said, if people want to believe that he was walking to his truck and was attacked by Martin. “So much time is unaccounted for that would allow him to get him back to the truck,” Pipitone said.

1. Indeed, GZ was doing anything BUT going back to his vehicle.

2. I am confident GZ will get destroyed on the stand with all of his inconsistencies. His downfall will be an unwillingness to get a lawyer right away, and talking to the police. Not sure why he would have done that, especially with his "education", and both parents backgrounds.

Yes, he made 4 claims:
1) TM had plenty of time to walk to the end of the walkway and gert back to his truck - although we know that the pross has already stated they have no evidence contradicting that Z was on his way back to the truck.
2) TM had plenty of time to get back to his house, but somehow didn't - which both supports (he was near his house and wouldn't run) and casts further doubt on Deedee's claims (he was scared and heading back to the house).
3) The GS occured while TM was on top of Z.
4) There was only one shot, which supports Z's SD claim.

Lastly, the article states that Pipitone was low-key on the timeline issues and stressing the GS angle/single shot. You are hanging your hat on the portion of the story that was jazzed up for ratings issues.

ric27 · Feb 10, 2013

hawke812 said:
WKMG legal analyst Luis Calderon said the timeline shows that Martin had “plenty of time” to get home and “it’s obvious something made him stay there.”

The timeline hurts Zimmerman’s credibility, Pipitone said, if people want to believe that he was walking to his truck and was attacked by Martin. “So much time is unaccounted for that would allow him to get him back to the truck,” Pipitone said.

1. Indeed, GZ was doing anything BUT going back to his vehicle.

2. I am confident GZ will get destroyed on the stand with all of his inconsistencies. His downfall will be an unwillingness to get a lawyer right away, and talking to the police. Not sure why he would have done that, especially with his "education", and both parents backgrounds.

You can't have any confidence because the evidence is against you. Period

Z's broken nose lines up with being hit hard in the face. The cuts and lacerations also lined up with Z's head hitting something hard.
Z on the bottom which lines up with eyewitness statements. The fight constantly moved. It was NOT static...everyone is agreement on that.
Z and DeeDee both say that M talked first...lines up with M starting the initiative.
Z fires ONE shot at close range, forensics support that. The fight stopped after one shot, evidence seems to agree with that too.

JackFrost · Feb 10, 2013

buck said:
Yes, he made 4 claims:
1) TM had plenty of time to walk to the end of the walkway and gert back to his truck - although we know that the pross has already stated they have no evidence contradicting that Z was on his way back to the truck.
2) TM had plenty of time to get back to his house, but somehow didn't - which both supports (he was near his house and wouldn't run) and casts further doubt on Deedee's claims (he was scared and heading back to the house).
3) The GS occured while TM was on top of Z.
4) There was only one shot, which supports Z's SD claim.

Lastly, the article states that Pipitone was low-key on the timeline issues and stressing the GS angle/single shot. You are hanging your hat on the portion of the story that was jazzed up for ratings issues.

Here we go again:lol:

You guys deny reality so much there ALWAYS has to be some conspiracy/ulterior motive for any little thing against GZ:lol:

Instead of saying something like, "Even if he was not walking back to his vehicle, the evidence is still behind GZ"

No, no, it HAS to be for ratings:lamo

You are going to be very disappoint come June:lol:

JackFrost · Feb 10, 2013

ric27 said:
You can't have any confidence because the evidence is against you. Period

Z's broken nose lines up with being hit hard in the face. The cuts and lacerations also lined up with Z's head hitting something hard.
Z on the bottom which lines up with eyewitness statements. The fight constantly moved. It was NOT static...everyone is agreement on that.
Z and DeeDee both say that M talked first...lines up with M starting the initiative.
Z fires ONE shot at close range, forensics support that. The fight stopped after one shot, evidence seems to agree with that too.

I am confident. The case is stronger than you people think. Why else would GZ be so stressed out and fat? Because the evidence is clearly in his favor? He believes he will be found not guilty?

Yeah sure buddy:lol:

JackFrost · Feb 10, 2013

ric27 said:
You can't have any confidence because the evidence is against you. Period

Z's broken nose lines up with being hit hard in the face. The cuts and lacerations also lined up with Z's head hitting something hard.
Z on the bottom which lines up with eyewitness statements. The fight constantly moved. It was NOT static...everyone is agreement on that.
Z and DeeDee both say that M talked first...lines up with M starting the initiative.
Z fires ONE shot at close range, forensics support that. The fight stopped after one shot, evidence seems to agree with that too.

Expanding upon "confidence. Who is confident? Casey Anthony was cool all the way. George Zimmerman?

Casey Anthony 2008

Casey Anthony 2012

George Zimmerman Arrest Photo 2012

George Zimmerman A.K.A. The Bacon Conqueror

The Bacon Tells No Lies...

buck · Feb 10, 2013

hawke812 said:
No, no, it HAS to be for ratings:lamo

That is a quote from the article:

On the Zimmerman reports, Pipitone took a low-key approach to the timeline re-enactment. WKMG took a more aggressive approach to the promotion because the reports aired during the important February ratings period. But Pipitone’s worthwhile reports ask viewers to think about the case again and focus on the evidence

joko104 · Feb 11, 2013

lemmiwinx said:
You never know, you just have to stay involved.

View attachment 67142379

An ignorant message.

joko104 · Feb 11, 2013

hawke812 said:
WKMG legal analyst Luis Calderon said the timeline shows that Martin had “plenty of time” to get home and “it’s obvious something made him stay there.”

The timeline hurts Zimmerman’s credibility, Pipitone said, if people want to believe that he was walking to his truck and was attacked by Martin. “So much time is unaccounted for that would allow him to get him back to the truck,” Pipitone said.

1. Indeed, GZ was doing anything BUT going back to his vehicle.

2. I am confident GZ will get destroyed on the stand with all of his inconsistencies. His downfall will be an unwillingness to get a lawyer right away, and talking to the police. Not sure why he would have done that, especially with his "education", and both parents backgrounds.

They should teach in school that the police are evil, never talk to them and if anything happens you instanteously loose free speech and freedom of movement, for which you must instantly liquidate all you have and beg any money of anyone to give it to a lawyer. Such is you repeated message.

There is no inconsistency. Rather just unaccounted for time. Unaccounted for time is not an inconsistency. It is only lack of information.

The analyst stated what is critical. Zimmerman's recount of the actual moment of shooting and position shooting from is accurate - meaning about 500 messages of Hawk and Sharon were false.

Using the logic of Hawk, we must now conclude that since it has been demonstration they have posted inaccurate messages, they are pathological liars and that no one should believe anything they have or will post - and in real life if accused of any crime we can be certain they are lying and guilty if they deny it, again by Hawk's "logic" and self declared expertise in human psychology.

JackFrost · Feb 11, 2013

buck said:
That is a quote from the article:

Once again, nice cherry pick of my post:lol:

Obviously it was for ratings:lol:

If you would have quoted the rest of my post, according to you people, any evidence against Zimmerman is for ratings:lol:

You are so biased it is pathetic:lol:

WKMG-Channel 6 used its “FlashPoint” public-affairs program on Sunday morning to go into greater detail about Tony Pipitone’s latest reports on the George Zimmerman case.

The local public-affairs programs provide precious time to explore issues that can’t be addressed in fast-moving newscasts. WFTV-Channel 9 did something similar last weekend on “Central Florida Spotlight” by expanding on Greg Warmoth’s startling report that dozens of sex offenders and predators are living in the same Osceola County hotels and motels where homeless families have landed.

On the Zimmerman reports, Pipitone took a low-key approach to the timeline re-enactment. WKMG took a more aggressive approach to the promotion because the reports aired during the important February ratings period. But Pipitone’s worthwhile reports ask viewers to think about the case again and focus on the evidence.

buck said:
You are hanging your hat on the portion of the story that was jazzed up for ratings issues.

No evidence was "jazzed up" for ratings. WKMG 's "Flashpoint" has MORE TIME to go into GREATER DETAIL on some news reports. That is it. The only thing the article mentions about ratings is "an aggressive approach to the promotion". How do you get any evidence was "jazzed up"?

I will give you credit though, for having NO SHAME with your bias:lol:

JackFrost · Feb 11, 2013

joko104 said:
They should teach in school that the police are evil, never talk to them and if anything happens you instanteously loose free speech and freedom of movement, for which you must instantly liquidate all you have and beg any money of anyone to give it to a lawyer. Such is you repeated message.

There is no inconsistency. Rather just unaccounted for time. Unaccounted for time is not an inconsistency. It is only lack of information.

The analyst stated what is critical. Zimmerman's recount of the actual moment of shooting and position shooting from is accurate - meaning about 500 messages of Hawk and Sharon were false.

Using the logic of Hawk, we must now conclude that since it has been demonstration they have posted inaccurate messages, they are pathological liars and that no one should believe anything they have or will post - and in real life if accused of any crime we can be certain they are lying and guilty if they deny it, again by Hawk's "logic" and self declared expertise in human psychology.

1. I clearly said all that. Thanks for summing that up for me joko:lol:

2. Yeah because I have said 500 or more times Zimmerman sniped Martin from 1,000 yards out:roll:

At least give me something to work with here. It is too easy:lol:

JackFrost · Feb 11, 2013

buck said:
I believe this analysis to be accurate and predominantly supports the defense in addition to punching a whole lot of holes in Sharon's opinions which are mainly based in emotions.

George Zimmerman: WKMG studies where he gains, loses credibility – The TV Guy – Orlando Sentinel

Greetings boys and girls:lol:

After reading more into this study, and not the little "snippet" ole bucky here provided and based his bias conclusions on, the analysis CLEARLY does not support either side. It is actually one of the most unbiased reports on this case. I encourage everyone to read more into this study.

Some good things did come out of this thread. Ole bucky did bring this study to light. Too bad he was unable and unwilling to approach this from a neutral standpoint:lol:

Forensic evidence both supports, casts doubt on Zimmerman claims | News - Home

To demonstrate the effects of an "intermediate range" shot through cloth, Knox and Local 6 used a Kel-Tec 9mm handgun similar to the one Zimmerman owned and, at a local gun range, fired test shots through two pieces of fabric: One tightly stretched over cardboard, the other hanging loosely about three inches in front, in contact with the muzzle when the shot was fired.

It produced results similar to what was found in the forensic reports: Contact damage on the cloth closest to the gun, and a 3/8-inch hole with a 2-by-2 inch pattern of stippling, or gunshot residue, on the shirt stretched skintight over the cardboard. This was not an exact scientific replication of the actual gunshot, because of differences in ammunition and the weapons' exact specifications, but a demonstration for Local 6 viewers.

Nor do any of the findings prove whether Zimmerman committed second-degree murder, as is alleged, or acted in self-defense, as Zimmerman claims.

But they could be crucial when a judge or jury determines if there is sufficient evidence of self defense or whether Zimmerman is guilty of second-degree murder, manslaughter or some other crime.

The defense, for instance, might focus on why Trayvon Martin did not walk directly to the townhouse where he was staying, perhaps suggesting Martin doubled back or lay in wait among bushes in the dark and confronted Zimmerman from behind, as Zimmerman claims.

"That part is difficult to explain, because clearly Trayvon Martin does something other than walk straight to (his father’s girlfriend's) townhome," Knox said.

Of course, the unarmed teenager had no obligation to go to the townhouse or do anything else, other than obey the law, which is what he was doing -- at least until, Zimmerman claims, he attacked the neighborhood watch captain.

But the state could accuse Zimmerman of lying about where he went and how long he took to get there after leaving his truck, showing he would have had plenty of time to get back to his truck, as he claimed he was trying to do. Prosecutors could argue an overzealous self-appointed defender of the community used the unaccounted for time to try to track down the "suspicious" "punk" he thought was "up to no good," an "asshole (who) always get(s) away," all descriptions Zimmerman gives of Martin during the phone call.

More than 2:30 passes between the time Zimmerman hung up with Sanford police (7:13:39) and when a neighbor who heard the commotion connected with a 911 operator (7:16:11). The struggles continues on that call for 45 seconds, until the fatal gunshot is heard at 7:16:56.

Exactly what happened during that 2:32 gap only Zimmerman has survived to say.

Knox does not know exactly when the struggle began – because that moment was not recorded -- but it had to come some seconds before the 911 call was made. It took some time for the 911 caller to hear and react to the struggle and then make a decision to get to a phone and properly connect with 911.

Knox also does not speculate on who may have been the initial aggressor, or whether either person had a right to fight back with deadly force.

"What you have here is a case where you have two people perceiving one event in two very different ways," Knox concluded. "George Zimmerman is perceiving that Trayvon Martin is a suspicious character, he's doing something wrong. Trayvon Martin perceives it as, 'Why is this guy following me? Why is he staring at me?' What can happen in a situation like that is each person's individual perception causes them to act in a particular way. Their actions collided and turned into this tragic event."

joko104 · Feb 11, 2013

hawke812 said:
Greetings boys and girls:lol:

After reading more into this study, and not the little "snippet" ole bucky here provided and based his bias conclusions on, the analysis CLEARLY does not support either side. It is actually one of the most unbiased reports on this case. I encourage everyone to read more into this study.

Some good things did come out of this thread. Ole bucky did bring this study to light. Too bad he was unable and unwilling to approach this from a neutral standpoint:lol:

Forensic evidence both supports, casts doubt on Zimmerman claims | News - Home

To demonstrate the effects of an "intermediate range" shot through cloth, Knox and Local 6 used a Kel-Tec 9mm handgun similar to the one Zimmerman owned and, at a local gun range, fired test shots through two pieces of fabric: One tightly stretched over cardboard, the other hanging loosely about three inches in front, in contact with the muzzle when the shot was fired.

It produced results similar to what was found in the forensic reports: Contact damage on the cloth closest to the gun, and a 3/8-inch hole with a 2-by-2 inch pattern of stippling, or gunshot residue, on the shirt stretched skintight over the cardboard. This was not an exact scientific replication of the actual gunshot, because of differences in ammunition and the weapons' exact specifications, but a demonstration for Local 6 viewers.

Nor do any of the findings prove whether Zimmerman committed second-degree murder, as is alleged, or acted in self-defense, as Zimmerman claims.

But they could be crucial when a judge or jury determines if there is sufficient evidence of self defense or whether Zimmerman is guilty of second-degree murder, manslaughter or some other crime.

The defense, for instance, might focus on why Trayvon Martin did not walk directly to the townhouse where he was staying, perhaps suggesting Martin doubled back or lay in wait among bushes in the dark and confronted Zimmerman from behind, as Zimmerman claims.

"That part is difficult to explain, because clearly Trayvon Martin does something other than walk straight to (his father’s girlfriend's) townhome," Knox said.

Of course, the unarmed teenager had no obligation to go to the townhouse or do anything else, other than obey the law, which is what he was doing -- at least until, Zimmerman claims, he attacked the neighborhood watch captain.

But the state could accuse Zimmerman of lying about where he went and how long he took to get there after leaving his truck, showing he would have had plenty of time to get back to his truck, as he claimed he was trying to do. Prosecutors could argue an overzealous self-appointed defender of the community used the unaccounted for time to try to track down the "suspicious" "punk" he thought was "up to no good," an "asshole (who) always get(s) away," all descriptions Zimmerman gives of Martin during the phone call.

More than 2:30 passes between the time Zimmerman hung up with Sanford police (7:13:39) and when a neighbor who heard the commotion connected with a 911 operator (7:16:11). The struggles continues on that call for 45 seconds, until the fatal gunshot is heard at 7:16:56.

Exactly what happened during that 2:32 gap only Zimmerman has survived to say.

Knox does not know exactly when the struggle began – because that moment was not recorded -- but it had to come some seconds before the 911 call was made. It took some time for the 911 caller to hear and react to the struggle and then make a decision to get to a phone and properly connect with 911.

Knox also does not speculate on who may have been the initial aggressor, or whether either person had a right to fight back with deadly force.

"What you have here is a case where you have two people perceiving one event in two very different ways," Knox concluded. "George Zimmerman is perceiving that Trayvon Martin is a suspicious character, he's doing something wrong. Trayvon Martin perceives it as, 'Why is this guy following me? Why is he staring at me?' What can happen in a situation like that is each person's individual perception causes them to act in a particular way. Their actions collided and turned into this tragic event."

It appears legit and consistent.

I see it as more supporting the Defense for 2 reasons: That Martin was over Zimmerman and he notes that Zimmerman may have been reasonable in being suspicious that Martin "was doing something wrong." This would justify 1.) the call to the police and 2.) wanting to be able to tell the police where Martin ran off to when they arrived - thus rationale to follow Martin. It greatly matters what was in Zimmerman's mind - whether it was ultimately accurate or not. It also defeats the claim that Martin was just a kid walking home with a bag of Skittles, although that does not show wrong doing.
Zimmerman's story EITHER is contradicted OR is just not complete. That does not make him guilty of murder, nor proving him even a deliberate liar make him a murderer.
Its not a slam dunk for the defense, but there is more in it for the defense and claims that Martin was not over Zimmerman and that Martin was just going home are helpful to the defense.
The prosecution will have to get the jury to personally hate Zimmerman to get a conviction, but prosecutors often succeed at doing so.

buck · Feb 11, 2013

hawke812 said:
Greetings boys and girls:lol:

After reading more into this study, and not the little "snippet" ole bucky here provided and based his bias conclusions on, the analysis CLEARLY does not support either side. It is actually one of the most unbiased reports on this case. I encourage everyone to read more into this study.

A few momoents ago I found and listened to the entire report. Here is the video:
Zimmerman timeline examined on 'Flashpoint' (CC) | Home - Home

and here (IMO)were the important pieces:
1) Zimm had plenty of time to get to his truck - although I had assumed Z didn't start back to his truck until he hung up with 911 (but he still would have had time)
2) TM had plenty of time to get home which will lead defense to claim he laid in wait.
3) The shot is evidence that T was on top and leaning over Z. The holes lines up as expected.
4) Even if Z did initiate, T escalated and Z would still have right to SD - which I believe most of us already knew except for Sharon and Hawke, I believe).

JackFrost · Feb 11, 2013

buck said:
A few momoents ago I found and listened to the entire report. Here is the video:
Zimmerman timeline examined on 'Flashpoint' (CC) | Home - Home

and here (IMO)were the important pieces:
1) Zimm had plenty of time to get to his truck - although I had assumed Z didn't start back to his truck until he hung up with 911 (but he still would have had time)
2) TM had plenty of time to get home which will lead defense to claim he laid in wait.
3) The shot is evidence that T was on top and leaning over Z. The holes lines up as expected.
4) Even if Z did initiate, T escalated and Z would still have right to SD - which I believe most of us already knew except for Sharon and Hawke, I believe).

1 & 2- The defense has not, and will not claim TM was "lying in wait" for obvious reasons Zimmer-supporters fail to see. If they have already done so, or plan to use it at the immunity hearing or at trial, they are so done:lol:
3-A few things to note here:
a. What has changed? This is not "new" evidence, only an affirmation.
b. Zimmerman must first obtain an expert to conduct this test. He would have to give up $300 a day food binges. They can't use this study at trial. I just don't see that happening:lamo
4. Initiate is irrelevant, confronting and escalating is key. The prosecution will easily discredit Zimmerman's version of events. His reputation is in the gutter right now. I don't see it getting better.

JackFrost · Feb 11, 2013

buck said:
A few momoents ago I found and listened to the entire report. Here is the video:
Zimmerman timeline examined on 'Flashpoint' (CC) | Home - Home

and here (IMO)were the important pieces:
1) Zimm had plenty of time to get to his truck - although I had assumed Z didn't start back to his truck until he hung up with 911 (but he still would have had time)
2) TM had plenty of time to get home which will lead defense to claim he laid in wait.
3) The shot is evidence that T was on top and leaning over Z. The holes lines up as expected.
4) Even if Z did initiate, T escalated and Z would still have right to SD - which I believe most of us already knew except for Sharon and Hawke, I believe).

Also, read/see the entire report next time before creating a thread about it at least:lol:

JackFrost · Feb 11, 2013

Also, about the whole TM being on top at the time of the actual shot:

(This excerpt is from W18′s CNN interview with Ashleigh Banfield)

BANFIELD: Where were you looking at the moment the gun fired?

W18: I was looking at the two men on the ground and heard the
gunshot.

BANFIELD: Could you tell who was on the top? Who was on bottom?

W18: I know it was very dark, but I really would have to say that I thought it was the larger person that was on top.

BANFIELD: And when the gunfire went off, what happened to the larger man who you think might be on the top? What happened at that moment?

W18: Well, I would say a couple seconds later, that larger man was walking closer to where I could see him.

HOW? Part 1 - YouTube

HOW? Part 2 - YouTube!

How? Part 3 - YouTube

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJEH0IeVr55eINFV7FyytwlUnuE-CK55WRf9Msgatn7PBl9k6X

The defense will have to address all of this, because the prosecution will argue GZ was on top or a neutral position pulling on Martins shirt when he fired the shot. Zimmerman's version does not explain HOW he was able to get at his firearm.

buck · Feb 11, 2013

hawke812 said:
1 & 2- The defense has not, and will not claim TM was "lying in wait" for obvious reasons Zimmer-supporters fail to see. If they have already done so, or plan to use it at the immunity hearing or at trial, they are so done:lol:

The defense will clearly argue that TM was not on his way back to his house. To think that the defense will not put forth the possibliity that TM doubled back or waited to attack seems silly, IMO and, it appears, in the opinion of the expert too..

3-A few things to note here:
a. What has changed? This is not "new" evidence, only an affirmation.

Nothing has changed. In fact, I knew this for a long time. However, Sharon (and I thought you too) insists that is not the case and the bullet trajectory casts doubt upon Z's statements.

buck · Feb 11, 2013

hawke812 said:
Also, about the whole TM being on top at the time of the actual shot:

(This excerpt is from W18′s CNN interview with Ashleigh Banfield)

BANFIELD: Where were you looking at the moment the gun fired?

W18: I was looking at the two men on the ground and heard the
gunshot.

BANFIELD: Could you tell who was on the top? Who was on bottom?

W18: I know it was very dark, but I really would have to say that I thought it was the larger person that was on top.

BANFIELD: And when the gunfire went off, what happened to the larger man who you think might be on the top? What happened at that moment?

W18: Well, I would say a couple seconds later, that larger man was walking closer to where I could see him.

HOW? Part 1 - YouTube

HOW? Part 2 - YouTube!

How? Part 3 - YouTube

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJEH0IeVr55eINFV7FyytwlUnuE-CK55WRf9Msgatn7PBl9k6X

The defense will have to address all of this, because the prosecution will argue GZ was on top or a neutral position pulling on Martins shirt when he fired the shot. Zimmerman's version does not explain HOW he was able to get at his firearm.

The forensic and other witness statements will make it easy to counter and I am just not certain why someone would be on top of an individual to keep them down while pulling up on their shirt. It would make more sense that you would be pushing down on the chest. But whatever makes sense to you and allows you to continue your belief. :roll:

joko104 · Feb 11, 2013

hawke812 said:
Also, about the whole TM being on top at the time of the actual shot:

(This excerpt is from W18′s CNN interview with Ashleigh Banfield)

BANFIELD: Where were you looking at the moment the gun fired?

W18: I was looking at the two men on the ground and heard the
gunshot.

BANFIELD: Could you tell who was on the top? Who was on bottom?

W18: I know it was very dark, but I really would have to say that I thought it was the larger person that was on top.

BANFIELD: And when the gunfire went off, what happened to the larger man who you think might be on the top? What happened at that moment?

W18: Well, I would say a couple seconds later, that larger man was walking closer to where I could see him.

HOW? Part 1 - YouTube

HOW? Part 2 - YouTube!

How? Part 3 - YouTube

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJEH0IeVr55eINFV7FyytwlUnuE-CK55WRf9Msgatn7PBl9k6X

The defense will have to address all of this, because the prosecution will argue GZ was on top or a neutral position pulling on Martins shirt when he fired the shot. Zimmerman's version does not explain HOW he was able to get at his firearm.

"Larger man" doesn't really tell much as TM was taller and obviously the witness has such little vision he had no sense of race, clothing or age if that is all the witness said. TM is taller so with the loose hoodie sweater leaning over he could look both taller and overall larger than GZ on the ground.

joko104 · Feb 11, 2013

Has Sharon disappeared?