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Is this Florida case like Zimmerman?

Do you have any idea what the hell you are talking about?
Did I say that was all the grabbing there was? Did I say they didn't go to the ground? What was that? I didn't on both counts? Go figure.
:lamo

And you might want to familiarize yourself with this case as the witnesses said that he was not choked.

Did you get that?

The witnesses made it clear that he was a liar, and the jury believed them.



No dude!

That is clearly your logic , as it is not what Zimmerman did.

Since it is not something Zimmerman did, but something you want to say he did - it is your logic(or lack there of).

So the witnesses said James did not grab Dooley, but he did grab Dooley...:lamo
So it is my logic because I described what Zimmerman did....:lamo
 
There is no bias.

All four witnesses testified James was yelling and approached Dooley. He then initiated the first physical contact. That is all anyone needs to know.

Case closed.
Grabbing someone's hand in an effort to stop them from shooting you, is a defensive move, and in context of what was happening, is an acceptable form of initiating contact.


As for that is all anybody needs to know? Naw ah! :naughty
The jury didn't believe his story. That is all we need to know at this point
 
So the witnesses said James did not grab Dooley, but he did grab Dooley...:lamo
So it is my logic because I described what Zimmerman did....:lamo
Are you high or something?
The witnesses said he did not choke him. Do you not understand the difference?


And you [highlight]did not[/highlight] describe what Zimmerman did. That is what makes it clearly your logic (or lack there of).
 
Grabbing someone's hand in an effort to stop them from shooting you, is a defensive move, and in context of what was happening, is an acceptable form of initiating contact.


As for that is all anybody needs to know? Naw ah! :naughty
The jury didn't believe his story. That is all we need to know at this point

Going after someone and yelling, then using a "defensive move"...does not make sense:lamo

Our justice system putting the black man behind bars. Justice is served. Working as intended.

Got it:lamo
 
Going after someone and yelling, then using a "defensive move"...does not make sense
He initiated contact by yelling first. He was hostile.
He armed himself and then went to confront. More hostility.
He brought a weapon onto a playground. Around children, placing them in danger.
He flashed his weapon. Exhibiting more hostility.
And when confronted about flashing his weapon, he drew it on the unarmed person who was confronting him over it. Drew it in front of children placing them in more danger. More hostility.
The person confronting him then grabbed his hand in defense.
They scuffled and he shot the unarmed man.

He was wrong from the get. And compounded it damn near every step of the way.

Even lying to the jury about being choked when he hadn't been.




Our justice system putting the black man behind bars. Justice is served. Working as intended.

Got it:lamo
No you don't got it. There is nothing racial about this. He was totally in the wrong from the get.

But it is good to know that you would excuse his actions because of race.
 
Hawke, I'm still waiting for you to post that evidence I'm dismissing... You know, the evidence that supports your beliefs?
 
Hawke, I'm still waiting for you to post that evidence I'm dismissing... You know, the evidence that supports your beliefs?

Oh, I can't wait for you to look at ALL evidence? I am required to provide evidence that is AVAILABLE to ANYONE with a computer and internet connection now? I am REQUIRED to review the evidence for you:lol:

First, that Zimmerman was attempting to hunt Martin down and catch him, rather than simply keeping an eye on where he went, as the evidence indicates... And you are still implying that Martin ran but was caught by Zimmerman who chased him down.

The evidence does not indicate Zimmerman was "keeping an eye" on Martin. Per the original investigation, Zimmerman was not trying to "keep an eye" on Martin, nor were his injuries consistent with what he described had occurred. That is why Serino recommended manslaughter charges.

Inv. Chris Serino's Zimmerman Interview Transcripts

Trayvon Martin - Imgur

Frederick Leatherman Law Blog

LLMPapa's channel - YouTube

AxiomAmnesia.com Presents They Always Get Away: Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman Documents, Photos, Videos, Audio, and Articles

It is all there for everyone to see. You can even hear Serino questioning Zimmerman. His story is full of holes. Go ahead and try to deny it.

I can lead a horse to water;
But I can't make it drink.
 
Oh, I can't wait for you to look at ALL evidence? I am required to provide evidence that is AVAILABLE to ANYONE with a computer and internet connection now? I am REQUIRED to review the evidence for you:lol:



The evidence does not indicate Zimmerman was "keeping an eye" on Martin. Per the original investigation, Zimmerman was not trying to "keep an eye" on Martin, nor were his injuries consistent with what he described had occurred. That is why Serino recommended manslaughter charges.

Inv. Chris Serino's Zimmerman Interview Transcripts

Trayvon Martin - Imgur

Frederick Leatherman Law Blog

LLMPapa's channel - YouTube

AxiomAmnesia.com Presents They Always Get Away: Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman Documents, Photos, Videos, Audio, and Articles

It is all there for everyone to see. You can even hear Serino questioning Zimmerman. His story is full of holes. Go ahead and try to deny it.

I can lead a horse to water;
But I can't make it drink.

I asked you to present the evidence, specifically, that backs up your claim... Not drop hours worth of interviews on me and tell me to "go fetch".

How about you simply quote the evidence, or eye witness testimony, that indicates that Zimmerman was attempting to catch and apprehend Martin, and the evidence that indicates the confrontation between the 2 took place when Zimmerman caught Martin as he was fleeing the area?

These are your claims to back up, not mine... My evidence is the call to police that we've all heard before.
 
I can lead a horse to water;
But I can't make it drink.
In other words, you got nothing.


The evidence does not indicate Zimmerman was "keeping an eye" on Martin. Per the original investigation, Zimmerman was not trying to "keep an eye" on Martin,
False. For a period of time this is exactly what Zimmerman was doing.


nor were his injuries consistent with what he described had occurred.
False.
Serino gave an opinion that they were marginally consistent.
Marginally consistent is still consistent, no matter how much you wish to deny it.

Nor is Serino an authority on what is or isn't consistent.
As we can see from the injuries present in the photos that they are indeed consistent with what Zimmerman describes as happening.


That is why Serino recommended manslaughter charges.
False.
We were told why the capais was filed. It was needed so the Prosecutor could take over the investigation.
Not because he wished to charge Zimmerman.
We know this because we were told it by the Chief, and because of Serino's comments following the filing.


It is all there for everyone to see.
Yes it is there for all to see.
You just have difficulty understanding what is there.


You can even hear Serino questioning Zimmerman.
:doh
:lamo:lamo
iLOL
He was supposed to do that. Duh!
That is his job.
Or didn't you know that?


His story is full of holes.
No it isn't. Your thoughts on it are.



Go ahead and try to deny it.
There is nothing to deny. Your take on it is full of holes. You keep getting shown by others yet you continually ignore them.

You have absolutely nothing.
 
I asked you to present the evidence, specifically, that backs up your claim... Not drop hours worth of interviews on me and tell me to "go fetch".

How about you simply quote the evidence, or eye witness testimony, that indicates that Zimmerman was attempting to catch and apprehend Martin, and the evidence that indicates the confrontation between the 2 took place when Zimmerman caught Martin as he was fleeing the area?

These are your claims to back up, not mine... My evidence is the call to police that we've all heard before.

The same call that indicates Zimmerman exiting his vehicle with no prompt from police dispatch and chasing down Martin?

She said a man was following Trayvon, that he was scared, that Trayvon asked, " 'What are you following me for?' " and she heard the man (Zimmerman) say, " 'What are you doing around here?' "

Asking someone "What are you doing around here" is not "keeping an eye"...only in your twisted world:lamo
 
The same call that indicates Zimmerman exiting his vehicle with no prompt from police dispatch and chasing down Martin?

She said a man was following Trayvon, that he was scared, that Trayvon asked, " 'What are you following me for?' " and she heard the man (Zimmerman) say, " 'What are you doing around here?' "

Asking someone "What are you doing around here" is not "keeping an eye"...only in your twisted world:lamo
First of all you can knock off the hyperbole. There was no "chasing down".

Do you not realize what you are doing here?
Really?

You are skipping over (ignoring) information that is inconvenient to you.

He stopped following after the the call taker's suggestion.

After he had stopped, and wasn't following him, Trayvon approached from behind and confronted him.


Not that Daisha is believable (because she isn't), but had Trayvon not laid in wait and confronted Zimmerman, Zimmerman never would have asked the question that Daisha alleges he did.
 
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In other words, you got nothing.



False. For a period of time this is exactly what Zimmerman was doing.



False.
Serino gave an opinion that they were marginally consistent.
Marginally consistent is still consistent, no matter how much you wish to deny it.

Nor is Serino an authority on what is or isn't consistent.
As we can see from the injuries present in the photos that they are indeed consistent with what Zimmerman describes as happening.



False.
We were told why the capais was filed. It was needed so the Prosecutor could take over the investigation.
Not because he wished to charge Zimmerman.
We know this because we were told it by the Chief, and because of Serino's comments following the filing.


Yes it is there for all to see.
You just have difficulty understanding what is there.


:doh
:lamo:lamo
iLOL
He was supposed to do that. Duh!
That is his job.
Or didn't you know that?


No it isn't. Your thoughts on it are.



There is nothing to deny. Your take on it is full of holes. You keep getting shown by others yet you continually ignore them.

You have absolutely nothing.

Of course I have nothing. I am not officially involved with the case. Why would you think I have something?

You must mean the prosecution has nothing...which is false because they do have something. If they had nothing, as you claim, why would we be having this discussion in the first place?

You must mean the prosecution does not have enough evidence to go to trial and/or convict Zimmerman with a crime.

And do you even know what a Capias is? It is NOT used for the purpose of taking over an investigation.

[Latin, That you take.] The name for several different kinds of writs, or court orders, all of which require an officer to take the defendant into custody.

Capias legal definition of Capias. Capias synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

ALL OF WHICH REQUIRE AN OFFICER TO TAKE THE DEFENDANT INTO CUSTODY, not TO TAKE OVER AN INVESTIGATION.

Again, what are you talking about??? Transferring the case to the state prosecutor would require Zimmerman to be taken into custody?

Unless you mean a word different than Capias? It just does not make sense. A Capias is used to arrest someone.

Sanford PD did not want to arrest Zimmerman. But they issued a Capias which is used to arrest?
 
The same call that indicates Zimmerman exiting his vehicle with no prompt from police dispatch and chasing down Martin?

Yes, but where does it indicate that he was attempting to apprehend Martin, rather than just observe where he went? The answer is, nowhere.



She said a man was following Trayvon, that he was scared, that Trayvon asked, " 'What are you following me for?' " and she heard the man (Zimmerman) say, " 'What are you doing around here?' "

I assume the "she" you are talking about is the girlfriend and her call to Martin. First, the conversation she said she heard between the 2 is irrelevant and had nothing to do with the claims you made, so moving on...

Maybe you forgot what else she said to him just before the confrontation... She told him to run away, and he told her that he wasn't going to run. That is not the actions of someone who is scared... That aside, could you point out what part of her testimony indicated that Martin was fleeing and Zimmerman caught him, as you insinuated?

Asking someone "What are you doing around here" is not "keeping an eye"...only in your twisted world:lamo

What evidence do you have that Martin was fleeing when this happened? What evidence do you have that Zimmerman approached Martin, rather than the other way around as Zimmerman has claimed?

It seems you are making assumptions, because you have presented nothing that backs up your claims... NOTHING.
 
Yes, but where does it indicate that he was attempting to apprehend Martin, rather than just observe where he went? The answer is, nowhere.





I assume the "she" you are talking about is the girlfriend and her call to Martin. First, the conversation she said she heard between the 2 is irrelevant and had nothing to do with the claims you made, so moving on...

Maybe you forgot what else she said to him just before the confrontation... She told him to run away, and he told her that he wasn't going to run. That is not the actions of someone who is scared... That aside, could you point out what part of her testimony indicated that Martin was fleeing and Zimmerman caught him, as you insinuated?



What evidence do you have that Martin was fleeing when this happened? What evidence do you have that Zimmerman approached Martin, rather than the other way around as Zimmerman has claimed?

It seems you are making assumptions, because you have presented nothing that backs up your claims... NOTHING.

She said he was not going to run...because he was tired. So you blame the prey for his own death because he could not run any longer....

"Oh ****, he ran!"

"Are you following him?"

"Yes."

"Why are you following me for?"

"What are you doing around here?"

Oh right, this is all nothing. Keeping an eye, keeping an eye:lol:
 
She said he was not going to run...because he was tired. So you blame the prey for his own death because he could not run any longer....

"Oh ****, he ran!"

"Are you following him?"

"Yes."

"Why are you following me for?"

"What are you doing around here?"

Oh right, this is all nothing. Keeping an eye, keeping an eye:lol:

I have listened to that entire interview, and she never said that Zimmerman approached Martin... Never...

What she did say initially, was that Martin wasn't going to run because he said he was right by his fathers house. But the fight took place NOT by his fathers house, but at approximately 10 units north of there near the sidewalk that Zimmerman was on when talking to police. That tells me that between the time he stopped running and the time he said something to Zimmerman, Martin went from being right by his fathers home, to being close to where Zimmerman was on the sidewalk at the north end of that row of townhomes.

She also said that him being tired was her opinion, not what he actually said to her.

It was also her opinion he was scared, not something he ever said to her.


So once again, you have made assumptions and not provided anything that supports your beliefs... NOTHING

So I ask you again... Please present evidence that supports your belief that Zimmerman was in pursuit of Martin to confront or detain him, and present evidence that supports your belief that Zimmerman was the one who approached Martin while in pursuit of him, as Martin was fleeing the area.


And btw, your statement "So you blame the prey for his own death because he could not run any longer...." is rediculous... He was a physically fit 17 year old kid that ran no more than a few hundred yards, so don't you tell me he "couldn't run any longer"
 
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Of course I have nothing.
Of course you have nothing. That is why your previous statement of leading a horse to water was ridiculous.


Which of course is unlike those of us here that actually have the information ready to provide you with if needed, (Leading a horse to water). Unfortunately, you chose to ignore (drink the water) the information and instead make wild assumptions and come to conclusions not based on the evidence, but on what you want to believe.
Much like the below.



And do you even know what a Capias is? It is NOT used for the purpose of taking over an investigation.
Why yes I do know what a Capias is.
And yes a sworn request for one can be used in the way it was.

Duh! It was used that way.

We were even told it was used that way, so obviously it can be used that way. Duh!

But let's go over this again since you do not want to drink from an obvious fountain.


We have been having this specific discussion for some time now.
And you still haven't learned even though you have been educated on the matter.
It is about a request for a Capias filed by Serino being procedural so the Prosecutor could take over the investigation.


Chief Lee, through his PR agency, said the following.

"As I have stated consistently, at the time and based on the evidence and testimony we had, we did not have probable cause to make a physical arrest."

His agency recommended the manslaughter charge on paper, the statement said, [Highlight]because without it, prosecutors would not have taken over the investigation.[/Highlight]

George Zimmerman arrest Sanford: Police gave mixed messages about George Zimmerman's arrest - Orlando Sentinel

Also from the same article.


The request was sent to State Attorney Norm Wolfinger, whose office then took over the investigation.

Three days later, on March 16, Lee and several Sanford officers involved in the case, including Serino, went over some of the details of their investigation with the Orlando Sentinel.

...

Said Serino, "The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman. … We did not have enough for an arrest warrant."

He said that three days after the filing even. Go figure, huh!

Now you have been lead to water again. Will you continue in your refusal to drink?


You have known what has been said, and refuse to accept it as factual because you just have to have it mean what you want it to mean, instead of what it actually does means.
That is your problem and your problem alone. Not mine.

But since you do not seem to understand that the request (even though it was sworn), was procedural.

I also provide you the State's AG describing the "Process" which can only be interpreted as procedural. Gee, must be why she used the term process, huh?

Asked to confirm that the police recommended a manslaughter charge, special prosecutor Angela Corey said:

"I don't know about that, but as far as the process I can tell you that the police went to the state attorney with a capias request, meaning: 'We're through with our investigation and here it is for you.' The state attorney impaneled a grand jury, but before anything else could be done, the governor stepped in and asked us to pick it up in midstream."

A capias is a request for charges to be filed.

Sanford cops sought warrant to arrest George Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin shooting - Tampa Bay Times



And just in case you still refuse to drink, and somehow still think that Serino really wanted to press charges against Zimmerman, I provide you with the following.

The lead Sanford Police investigator who sought manslaughter charges against George Zimmerman told the FBI that a sergeant and two other officers tried to pressure him into making an arrest in the controversial case — [Highlight]even though he didn’t think there was enough evidence.[/Highlight]
...
“as all pressuring him to file charges against Zimmerman after the incident,” an FBI report said. [Highlight]“Serino did not believe he had enough evidence at the time to file charges.”[/Highlight]


Detective in Zimmerman case said he was pressured to file charges - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com
 
Correction to the above post.
I said State AG, when I meant the Attorney appointed by the State AG.
 
Of course you have nothing. That is why your previous statement of leading a horse to water was ridiculous.


Which of course is unlike those of us here that actually have the information ready to provide you with if needed, (Leading a horse to water). Unfortunately, you chose to ignore (drink the water) the information and instead make wild assumptions and come to conclusions not based on the evidence, but on what you want to believe.
Much like the below.




Why yes I do know what a Capias is.
And yes a sworn request for one can be used in the way it was.

Duh! It was used that way.

We were even told it was used that way, so obviously it can be used that way. Duh!

But let's go over this again since you do not want to drink from an obvious fountain.


We have been having this specific discussion for some time now.
And you still haven't learned even though you have been educated on the matter.
It is about a request for a Capias filed by Serino being procedural so the Prosecutor could take over the investigation.


Chief Lee, through his PR agency, said the following.

"As I have stated consistently, at the time and based on the evidence and testimony we had, we did not have probable cause to make a physical arrest."

His agency recommended the manslaughter charge on paper, the statement said, [Highlight]because without it, prosecutors would not have taken over the investigation.[/Highlight]

George Zimmerman arrest Sanford: Police gave mixed messages about George Zimmerman's arrest - Orlando Sentinel

Also from the same article.


The request was sent to State Attorney Norm Wolfinger, whose office then took over the investigation.

Three days later, on March 16, Lee and several Sanford officers involved in the case, including Serino, went over some of the details of their investigation with the Orlando Sentinel.

...

Said Serino, "The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman. … We did not have enough for an arrest warrant."

He said that three days after the filing even. Go figure, huh!

Now you have been lead to water again. Will you continue in your refusal to drink?


You have known what has been said, and refuse to accept it as factual because you just have to have it mean what you want it to mean, instead of what it actually does means.
That is your problem and your problem alone. Not mine.

But since you do not seem to understand that the request (even though it was sworn), was procedural.

I also provide you the State's AG describing the "Process" which can only be interpreted as procedural. Gee, must be why she used the term process, huh?

Asked to confirm that the police recommended a manslaughter charge, special prosecutor Angela Corey said:

"I don't know about that, but as far as the process I can tell you that the police went to the state attorney with a capias request, meaning: 'We're through with our investigation and here it is for you.' The state attorney impaneled a grand jury, but before anything else could be done, the governor stepped in and asked us to pick it up in midstream."

A capias is a request for charges to be filed.

Sanford cops sought warrant to arrest George Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin shooting - Tampa Bay Times



And just in case you still refuse to drink, and somehow still think that Serino really wanted to press charges against Zimmerman, I provide you with the following.

The lead Sanford Police investigator who sought manslaughter charges against George Zimmerman told the FBI that a sergeant and two other officers tried to pressure him into making an arrest in the controversial case — [Highlight]even though he didn’t think there was enough evidence.[/Highlight]
...
“as all pressuring him to file charges against Zimmerman after the incident,” an FBI report said. [Highlight]“Serino did not believe he had enough evidence at the time to file charges.”[/Highlight]


Detective in Zimmerman case said he was pressured to file charges - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com

So to take over an investigation, Sanford PD has the authority to change the meaning of words, and don't have enough evidence to file charges...but file charges to change the meaning of words...Serino is pressured by fellow officers to file charges...but files charges anyways to transfer an investigation...GOT IT:lamo
 
So to take over an investigation, Sanford PD has the authority to change the meaning of words, and don't have enough evidence to file charges...but file charges to change the meaning of words...Serino is pressured by fellow officers to file charges...but files charges anyways to transfer an investigation...GOT IT:lamo

The only reason charges were filed was because Al Sharpton raised hell creating the threat of civil unrest, combined with all the mis-information from the national media about the case that gave the public a false impression of the evidence, so the state had no choice but to indict.

Now, I'm still waiting for that evidence that supports your beliefs? What you have presented so far are quotes from Zimmerman that exclude everything that took place after, and quotes from Martin's girlfriend that are irrelevant to what you have claimed. If that's all you have then I was correct... You are being dishonest and your beliefs have no basis in the known facts.
 
So to take over an investigation, Sanford PD has the authority to change the meaning of words, and don't have enough evidence to file charges...but file charges to change the meaning of words...Serino is pressured by fellow officers to file charges...but files charges anyways to transfer an investigation...GOT IT:lamo

Why did, the prosecutor bypass the grand jury?
 
The only reason charges were filed was because Al Sharpton raised hell creating the threat of civil unrest, combined with all the mis-information from the national media about the case that gave the public a false impression of the evidence, so the state had no choice but to indict.

Now, I'm still waiting for that evidence that supports your beliefs? What you have presented so far are quotes from Zimmerman that exclude everything that took place after, and quotes from Martin's girlfriend that are irrelevant to what you have claimed. If that's all you have then I was correct... You are being dishonest and your beliefs have no basis in the known facts.

An unarmed youth shot and killed by Neighborhood Watch in a gated community is what brought attention to this case. You think people need any more reason to march than that? Al Sharpton is a non-factor nowadays. What has he even done recently? Hell, Crump had more airtime than Sharpton.

Known facts you say?

1 Trayvon Martin ran FROM Zimmerman
2. Zimmerman FOLLOWED Trayvon Martin

Both CONFIRMED by George Zimmerman.
 
Was a grand jury REQUIRED by law?

Taking the case with no evidence that Z was the aggressor and nothing to disprove Z's fear of death/self defense....to a GJ would have resulted in what?
 
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