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Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactment

Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

Looking AT houses isn't the same as looking IN them. You can't look INTO a house from the sidewalk. Seriously, do I have to argue this?
Seriously. Do you actually have any idea of what the evidence says?

He stated he was on the area of grass between the sidewalk and the homes. And yes, looking into the homes.


Did you not read what came before?

He said he was looking into homes.


Tonight, I was on my way to the grocery store when I saw a male approximately 5'11" to 6'2" Casually walking in the rain looking [highlight]into[/highlight] homes.
George Zimmerman?s Written Statement - Document - NYTimes.com
Four lines up from, and including, his last sentence on the first page.



I am beginning to think that your true motivation in starting all these threads is something other than your stated purpose.
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

Looking AT houses isn't the same as looking IN them. You can't look INTO a house from the sidewalk. Seriously, do I have to argue this?

Actually, yes you can. However, not sure why you are so certain T was on a sidewalk. It is not what Z indicated and I haven't heard anyone contradict him, besides you, i mean.
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

So during the 911 call it was "looking at houses", to police that night it was "looking in houses" (BTW - need you to prove that) and at Hannity it was "cutting between houses".

All part of the evolving testimony of Zimm.

Doesn't fill me with confidence.

It's all the same. Very slight differences to be expected in multiple statement and it does not mean much. There could be more problematic differences. However, the one you are focusing on is not a thing.
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

You forget the joker in the deck...the jury.

If the pross can cast doubt on Z's testimony, they cast doubt on his version of how the altercation started. Then all bets are off.

I'll give you another example of Z gilding the lily. During the Hannity interview he said Tm was "cutting between houses". The inference was that maybe he was looking in windows, checking doors...why else would anyone cut between houses?

But if you look at a Z's first call to police compared to subsequent statements, they differ. In his original call to 911 Z's description of T's actions are thus...

"This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about."

His statements to police that night reflect the same thing.

But here is Z's statements on Hannity.

"ZIMMERMAN: I felt he was suspicious because it was raining. He was in-between houses, cutting in-between houses,"

The implication was that TM was casing houses, maybe looking in windows.

But the Retreat doesn't have a continuous brick fence around the entire complex, it just runs parallel to the street fronting the complex. At the north-west corner, this is what it looks like. (Google satellite image, don't know if it will transfer)

retreat view circle - Google Maps


As you can see the brick wall ends and some kind of wood fence begins but it is clear that fence is penetrable. I read an article some time ago saying that kids used that all the time as a cut through to the complex instead of going all the away down to the gate...I have to assume Zimm, as NW captain, knew this as well.

In other words, it's quite possible TM used this simply as a shortcut, that it is when Zimm first observed TM coming into the community and that is the source of the "cutting through houses" comment from Zimm.

But Z didn't mention it during the 911 call, he didn't mention it to police that night, only on Hannity some time later. The reason is Zimm knew this was a cut through short cut used by kids and at the time he didn't think anything of it. Only later when the pot got hot did he decide to use it in order to make TM look like he might have been casing houses.

Gilding the lily.

Why?

Jury? Don't get ahead of yourself. There are some cards that haven't been played yet....

Several issues pending with SD immunity hearing.
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

Seriously. Do you actually have any idea of what the evidence says?

I am beginning to think that your true motivation in starting all these threads is something other than your stated purpose.


Hmmm, what is my stated purpose?
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

Actually, yes you can. However, not sure why you are so certain T was on a sidewalk. It is not what Z indicated and I haven't heard anyone contradict him, besides you, i mean.

Then show us where Zimm said TM was on the grass during the 911 call and not sometime later during his evolving testimony.
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

Jury? Don't get ahead of yourself. There are some cards that haven't been played yet....

Several issues pending with SD immunity hearing.

Anyone who thinks Zimm has a chance under SYG simply does not understand SYG.
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

It's all the same. Very slight differences to be expected in multiple statement and it does not mean much. There could be more problematic differences. However, the one you are focusing on is not a thing.


That was a personal opinion.
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

Hmmm, what is my stated purpose?
Gee, maybe it is the one stated here.
Every general question about the case get's paralyzed by the flotsam and jetsam of those pushing positions that any real enlightenment and understanding becomes impossible.

The only way to discuss this case and come away with any real understanding is by taking each point singly and fleshing them out without having to deal with the gristle and fat.
Yet, it just looks like you are lazy and do not want to look. Nothing has been buried. It has already been "fleshed out" so to say.
Apparently you just don't want to bother looking into it.
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

Then show us where Zimm said TM was on the grass during the 911 call and not sometime later during his evolving testimony.
He doesn't need to, nor did Zimmerman need to say any such thing during the call.
It doesn't matter. He stated it later in a more thorough description of the events.
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

Anyone who thinks Zimm has a chance under SYG simply does not understand SYG.

Tell me, why?
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

That was a personal opinion.

A very well founded and documented opinion. Someone giving multiple statements will have multiple differences in those statements. It will be very easy for the defense to put on experts showing that. In fact, if there were zero differences in his statements, that would make him less believable and more likely to be scripted.
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

Anyone who thinks Zimm has a chance under SYG simply does not understand SYG.

There have been multiple defense attorneys in Fl that disagree with you. The original prosecutor realized it, as did multiple people in the SPD and other asistant state's attorney - accordig to the most recent reports. If only they were as well versed in SYG as you, I guess.
 
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Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

Gee, maybe it is the one stated here.
Yet, it just looks like you are lazy and do not want to look. Nothing has been buried. It has already been "fleshed out" so to say.
Apparently you just don't want to bother looking into it.

Fair enough. I have no intention of going back over 100 threads and reading 10000 responses to end up where I am today. If my comments are too dated and banal for you. I suggest you avoid them.
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

He doesn't need to, nor did Zimmerman need to say any such thing during the call.
It doesn't matter. He stated it later in a more thorough description of the events.

When was that? Was he on "The View"?
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

Tell me, why?

According to Zimm's account he had no opportunity for retreat. His is a case of self defense.
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

According to Zimm's account he had no opportunity for retreat. His is a case of self defense.

SYG provides immunity *rule* from criminal prosecution. It is not a defense

A couple of *important* points for you to consider...

Z was attacked in a place *not any place but a public place* he lawfully had a right to be

Z did nothing to provoke said attack and had no duty to retreat plus Z reasonably feared imminent serious bodily injury or death
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

You didn't address my comment. There is no SYG situation, just a self defense defense at trial.

That we're getting different accounts from Zimm on exactly how and where the altercation started might be problematic for him.
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

You didn't address my comment. There is no SYG situation, just a self defense defense at trial.

That we're getting different accounts from Zimm on exactly how and where the altercation started might be problematic for him.

The reporting of Omara's most recent statements is that expects to request the SYG hearing in spring, which, in case you were unaware, is well before the the June trial. In other words, you are necessarily incorrect that they will only be presenting a SD claim at trial.
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

There have been multiple defense attorneys in Fl that disagree with you. The original prosecutor realized it, as did multiple people in the SPD and other asistant state's attorney - accordig to the most recent reports. If only they were as well versed in SYG as you, I guess.

Somebody should tell Zimm's attorney...

George Zimmerman's Lawyer, Mark O'Mara, Pursuing Traditional Self-Defense

ORLANDO, Fla. — The attorney for the former neighborhood watch volunteer who shot and killed Florida teenager Trayvon Martin said Monday he believes that the facts that will be argued in the case fall more under traditional self-defense.

Mark O'Mara, who is defending George Zimmerman against a second-degree murder charge in the fatal February shooting, said looking at the case through traditional self-defense circumstances is appropriate because the facts suggest his client couldn't retreat from a beating he was receiving from Martin.

Zimmerman's attorneys said last week that they would use Florida's "stand your ground" law, which allows people to use deadly force – rather than retreat – if they believe their lives are in danger.

"The facts don't seem to support a `stand your ground' defense," O'Mara said.

George Zimmerman's Lawyer, Mark O'Mara, Pursuing Traditional Self-Defense
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

The reporting of Omara's most recent statements is that expects to request the SYG hearing in spring, which, in case you were unaware, is well before the the June trial. In other words, you are necessarily incorrect that they will only be presenting a SD claim at trial.

Yes, I meant at the hearing.
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

Most of this is semantics, the applicable statute in FL is the 776 - "Justifiable Use of Force". It includes the general principles of self defense AND what people refer to as the Castle Doctrine and SYG. But it's no more accurate to call Zimm's situation a Castle Doctrine issue then a SYG...it is a self defense issue.

http://www.husseinandwebber.com/florida-stand-your-ground-statute.html
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

You didn't address my comment. There is no SYG situation, just a self defense defense at trial.

That we're getting different accounts from Zimm on exactly how and where the altercation started might be problematic for him.

Wrong! Do your homework!!



Somebody should tell Zimm's attorney...

George Zimmerman's Lawyer, Mark O'Mara, Pursuing Traditional Self-Defense

ORLANDO, Fla. — The attorney for the former neighborhood watch volunteer who shot and killed Florida teenager Trayvon Martin said Monday he believes that the facts that will be argued in the case fall more under traditional self-defense.

Mark O'Mara, who is defending George Zimmerman against a second-degree murder charge in the fatal February shooting, said looking at the case through traditional self-defense circumstances is appropriate because the facts suggest his client couldn't retreat from a beating he was receiving from Martin.

Zimmerman's attorneys said last week that they would use Florida's "stand your ground" law, which allows people to use deadly force – rather than retreat – if they believe their lives are in danger.

"The facts don't seem to support a `stand your ground' defense," O'Mara said.

George Zimmerman's Lawyer, Mark O'Mara, Pursuing Traditional Self-Defense

ilol....Your source is outdated.....
 
Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

Somebody should tell Zimm's attorney...

George Zimmerman's Lawyer, Mark O'Mara, Pursuing Traditional Self-Defense

ORLANDO, Fla. — The attorney for the former neighborhood watch volunteer who shot and killed Florida teenager Trayvon Martin said Monday he believes that the facts that will be argued in the case fall more under traditional self-defense.

Mark O'Mara, who is defending George Zimmerman against a second-degree murder charge in the fatal February shooting, said looking at the case through traditional self-defense circumstances is appropriate because the facts suggest his client couldn't retreat from a beating he was receiving from Martin.

Zimmerman's attorneys said last week that they would use Florida's "stand your ground" law, which allows people to use deadly force – rather than retreat – if they believe their lives are in danger.

"The facts don't seem to support a `stand your ground' defense," O'Mara said.

George Zimmerman's Lawyer, Mark O'Mara, Pursuing Traditional Self-Defense

Somehow you don't even know that Omara is Zimm's attorney. To make it even worse, you clearly do not know what Omara is really stating in the link you provided or realize that August (the date of your source) is well before October, which is when Omara stated they will be seeking the SYG hearing in Spring (April or May specifically).

http://www.startribune.com/nation/174560561.html?refer=y

Zimmerman's defense team tweeted after the hearing that they will likely ask for a "stand your ground" hearing in April or May. Under Florida law, Zimmerman can request the hearing and argue his self-defense case before the trial. If the judge were to side with Zimmerman, the murder charge would be dismissed and there would be no trial.
 
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Re: Video comparing what John told Fox News and what Zimmerman said in his reenactmen

Somehow you don't even know that Omara is Zimm's attorney. To make it even worse, you clearly do not know what Omara is really stating in the link you provided or realize that August (the date of your source) is well before October, which is when Omara stated they will be seeking the SYG hearing in Spring (April or May specifically).

Trial for Trayvon Martin shooting set for June; 'stand your ground hearing' may be this spring | StarTribune.com

And yet we have this article dated Oct 16th.

Last month, Zimmerman's attorney -Mark O'Mara, announced that he will not use the Florida State's "Stand Your Ground" law in the murder trial of Travyon Martin, who was shot to death by his client Zimmerman during an aggravated encounter in February.

Zimmerman at the time of the fatal incident was a volunteer watch-guard of a gated community, when he approached 17-year-old Martin after observing some suspicious behavior. Zimmerman claims that the encounter soon turned into a violent affront. In an act to protect himself, Zimmerman fatally fired at the teenager. When he was arrested in February and charged with the second degree murder of Martin, Zimmerman has maintained his defense of self-protection.

However, O'Mara, Zimmerman's lawyer, who admitted he would use the Florida State's "Stand Your Ground," in a quick change of strategy said he will not use take shelter in the immunity provided by the statue, but instead would present a clear case of self-defense.

According to the "Stand your Ground," law, if a person is in reasonable fear of danger than he/she could use deadly force, without having to evade the situation. This means that even though a person has the opportunity to escape his/her attacker he/she could choose to stand ground and fight back.

But now, Zimmerman's lawyer told the Huffington Post, "I think the facts seem to support that though we have a stand-your-ground immunity hearing, what this really is, is a simple, self-defense immunity hearing."

Read more at George Zimmerman: Trayvon Martin Family to Change Florida


There is no such thing as a SYG statute, it's the Justifiable Use of Force Statute that includes self defense and what are commonly referred to as the Castle Doctrine and STG all of which benefit from the immunity clause. So one can call it a SYG hearing but it is a Justifiable Use of Force hearing with a SYG argument.

Exepet not for Zimm and O'Mara, it is a JUOF hearing with a self defense argument.

I've tried to explain this several times and it's not getting through, so I won't try again.
 
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