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Prosecution witnesses are "LIARS!"

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joko104

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Over 1000+ times, Sharon and Furinova and a couple other vigilante GZ haters have raged that GZ is A LIAR!!!

Yet the cheer prosecution witnesses LYING - where lying is saying something different than before as their definition. The list of lies of prosecution witnesses is extreme and the entire case is now relying on PROVEN LIARS.

Not even 1/100th the discrepancies of GZ's statements are the prosecution witnesses, who openly 100% changed their stories and with police officers stating people were being pressured, and threatened with demotions and terminations if they did not change what they said the way the prosecution demanded.

That prosecution witnesses 100% have changed their story to the exact opposite - which GZ haters call LIES! LIAR! LIAR! LIES!!!! - doesn't bother GZ haters at all. This includes, but is not limited to:

TM WAS A LIAR!!!!
TM telling Dee he was going home fast, when in fact he was not. TM IS A LIAR!

DEE IS A LIAR!!!
Dee first saying the telephone called ended with GZ asking TM what he was doing there - her saying it went dead then because (she speculated) GZ shoved TM. BUT after speaking privately with the prosecution, she said that all was FALSE. Rather, the phone call did NOT end there. Instead she now heard TM saying "Get off me." DEE IS A LIAR!

TRAYVON MARTIN'S FATHER IS A LIAR!!!
Trayvon Martin's father said it was NOT his son's voice calling for help. BUT after meeting privately with the prosecution, he claimed that he had LIED! and it was his son, for which he is now suing hoping to get a lot of money. TM's FATHER IS A LIAR! A liar hoping to profit by a civil suit based on his perjury.

SERINO IS A LIAR!!!
Officer Serino stated that the evidence was consistent with GZ's account and there was no basis for bringing charges. HOWEVER, he then said that in order to protect his job he had to change his story. UNDER PRESSURE, SERINO LIED!

THE TWO COMPLAINING OFFICERS ARE LIARS!!!!
The two officers (can't remember their names) bizarrely were asked to jointly sign an affidavit drafted by the prosecutor. The affidavit gave no specific reasons for what they sworn the believed happened, but that for unstated reasons they had good reason to believe their statement. Yet at the hearing, they stated they had NO knowledge to back it up and instead believed it was each the other one who had such information - the prosecutor having played one off the other. IN EFFECT, BOTH OFFICERS LIED IN WRITING UNDER OATH.

THE WITNESS WHO SAID HE SAW GZ ON THE BOTTOM AND THEN CHANGED HIS STORY AFTER A secret meeting with prosecution, IS A LIAR!!!

Of great important to the Defense and something I think would outrage any juror is police officers openly saying they were pressured to lie for the prosecution by threats against their job if they did not - and given the Chief was fired for not supporting prosecution and Serino demoted for not doing so at first - verifies that accusation by officers is true.

When it is PROVEN and supported by police witnesses and actually actions that the prosecution was applying massive pressure on people to lie and change their story to save themselves, I think any legitimate jury would not give ANY credence to ANY statement by ANY prosecution witness.

NOTABLY, GZ haters have NO problem whatsoever with witnesses 100% telling the exact opposite stories IF it supports prosecution. They CHEER prosecution witnesses LYING as much and as extreme as is possible.

Why isn't there more discussion about prosecution liars - other than us believing in due process for GZ aren't raging spammers posting the same messages hundreds of times over?

How can the prosecutor legitimately win with all major witnesses are proven liars about this case AND it proven the prosecution was threatening people if they won't lie for her case?

WHAT OTHER LIES HAVE PROSECUTION WITNESSES TOLD?
 
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I was pegging you as a troll, but if you seriously believe that, you need help. I mean your distortion of reality is very troubling....OMFG you are George Zimmerman:shock:
 
hawke812 said:
I was pegging you as a troll, but if you seriously believe that, you need help. I mean your distortion of reality is very troubling....OMFG you are George Zimmerman:shock:
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Here is an idea that is unique for a debate forum. :slapme:
Why don't you try to show that he is wrong, instead of engaging in your hyperbolic ridicule?
 
Note, my usage of "LIAR!!!" was ala GZ-hater style.
 
Nice call-out thread, Joko. You're partially right, though - it is tough to admit certain discrepancies in one's own story, like how Martin took extra long to get home, and if you go with Dee's version, why would they suddenly start scuffling (this could either support or go against Zimmerman). The bond thing is kind of big, though: lying about how much money you have casts SERIOUS doubts on your credibility as a witness. I'm sure the prosecution has done some dubious manipulation too - such is what is going to happen in an overly publicized trial. I think that the media is probably exaggerating what both the prosecution and the defense are saying - only the people directly involved in the case can really have ANY idea over whether Zimmerman was acting in self-defense or not. This hyperbolic troll thread does neither side any favors, though.
 
I would like to add that the biggest manipulation that I have seen out of Martin supporters (I think Martin was murdered, BTW, but I don't know enough to be definitively sure of that) was the situation surrounding GZ's injuries - it went from him having NO injuries on the back of his head to him bleeding so much all over the place he CAN'T have gotten injured on the sidewalk.
 
MadLib said:
Nice call-out thread, Joko. You're partially right, though - it is tough to admit certain discrepancies in one's own story, like how Martin took extra long to get home, and if you go with Dee's version, why would they suddenly start scuffling (this could either support or go against Zimmerman). The bond thing is kind of big, though: lying about how much money you have casts SERIOUS doubts on your credibility as a witness. I'm sure the prosecution has done some dubious manipulation too - such is what is going to happen in an overly publicized trial. I think that the media is probably exaggerating what both the prosecution and the defense are saying - only the people directly involved in the case can really have ANY idea over whether Zimmerman was acting in self-defense or not. This hyperbolic troll thread does neither side any favors, though.
Click to expand...


What I am pointing out is the hypocrisy of SOME of the anti-GZ folks who rage on and on that the slightest variation of anything GZ means he's A LIAR!!! as if then a murderer.

Prosecution witnesses have 100% exactly, diametrically, reversed what they said to the exact opposite. To this, they pick which of the 2 opposite statements is worst against GZ and declare that one unquestionable truth. There also is a VERY real problem with police investigators go on record saying they have been pressured to change their statements including threats against their employment if they do not.

Finally, is the notion that if someone lies then everything the person says is a lie and the person is evil. Everyone lies in their life. Everyone. GZ in his head came up with some self-defense logic that lead him to not want the the court to talk away all the money donated and give it to a bonding company. If you were flat broke and the entire force of every level of politicians were trying to get you convicted of murder - using unlimited money, investigators and incessant hate-media (including false reports and altered tapes) to trash you over all - and your wife thrown out of school just because she's your wife - and you ordered that you can't even have a job (thus zero income) - you'd probably find some logic why the prosecutor couldn't have the judge take away every dollar you had too. That doesn't make him a murderer. It means he was desperate not to lose the money - and for very real survival reasons.

But what about you? Does the investigator Serino openly stating he changed his view to pro-prosecution specifically to save his job - and other officers also say they were being pressured to support the prosecution bother you? Does it bother you that witnesses who immediately at the time gave statements supporting GZ suddenly reversing themselves or saying they don't know anything after the prosecutor's team privately met with those witnesses bother you?

Why is it ONLY GZ lying (if that is what he did) to stop all his living and defense money being taken away - NONE of which actually has to do with what happened - the only "lie" that troubles you - or at leas worth mentioning by you?

Nor do I think that pointing out that prosecution witnesses have 100% exactly changed their story and even stated they did so under pressure to be "trolling."
 
Other relevancy of this thread.

Time and again juries have refused to go along and instead rebel when they think the police and/or prosecutor are being manipulative to try to get the defendant in high profile cases. OJ Simpson. Casey Anthony. Two examples.

The defense able to put on the actual investigators on the case to 1.) show they changed their story to pro-prosecution and 2.) openly stated they did so under pressure with 3.) there being a discharge and a demotion of two officers (including he chief) for not supporting prosecution - clearly leads to the obvious. If the prosecutor and the massive power of the government can get sworn officers to openly change their stories saying they did so under pressure - imagine the pressure the prosecutor and government can put on poor people who are witnesses living in Section 8 HUD housing?

This all is a HUGE problem for the prosecution.

GZ lying about bond (again if that is what he did) won't even be admissible in court as it is irrelevant to what happened that night. BUT prosecution witnesses changing their stories and the threats against officers who didn't is exactly admissible.
 
MadLib said:
I would like to add that the biggest manipulation that I have seen out of Martin supporters (I think Martin was murdered, BTW, but I don't know enough to be definitively sure of that) was the situation surrounding GZ's injuries - it went from him having NO injuries on the back of his head to him bleeding so much all over the place he CAN'T have gotten injured on the sidewalk.
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LOL. On this forum they have claimed his injuries were caused by him tripping, by him dropping his flashlight and falling on it, to being deliberately self inflicted after he shot TM, to it all fake and stage makeup used with the police and EMT in on it.

While it doesn't prove GZ innocent or guilty, it does seem within reasonable doubt to accept that TM was beating the crap out of GZ. Whether that was justified on TM's part or reason for GZ to shoot TM is a different question.
 
joko104 said:
Over 1000+ times, Sharon and Furinova and a couple other vigilante GZ haters have raged that GZ is A LIAR!!!

Yet the cheer prosecution witnesses LYING - where lying is saying something different than before as their definition. The list of lies of prosecution witnesses is extreme and the entire case is now relying on PROVEN LIARS.

Not even 1/100th the discrepancies of GZ's statements are the prosecution witnesses, who openly 100% changed their stories and with police officers stating people were being pressured, and threatened with demotions and terminations if they did not change what they said the way the prosecution demanded.

That prosecution witnesses 100% have changed their story to the exact opposite - which GZ haters call LIES! LIAR! LIAR! LIES!!!! - doesn't bother GZ haters at all. This includes, but is not limited to:

TM WAS A LIAR!!!!
TM telling Dee he was going home fast, when in fact he was not. TM IS A LIAR!

DEE IS A LIAR!!!
Dee first saying the telephone called ended with GZ asking TM what he was doing there - her saying it went dead then because (she speculated) GZ shoved TM. BUT after speaking privately with the prosecution, she said that all was FALSE. Rather, the phone call did NOT end there. Instead she now heard TM saying "Get off me." DEE IS A LIAR!

TRAYVON MARTIN'S FATHER IS A LIAR!!!
Trayvon Martin's father said it was NOT his son's voice calling for help. BUT after meeting privately with the prosecution, he claimed that he had LIED! and it was his son, for which he is now suing hoping to get a lot of money. TM's FATHER IS A LIAR! A liar hoping to profit by a civil suit based on his perjury.

SERINO IS A LIAR!!!
Officer Serino stated that the evidence was consistent with GZ's account and there was no basis for bringing charges. HOWEVER, he then said that in order to protect his job he had to change his story. UNDER PRESSURE, SERINO LIED!

THE TWO COMPLAINING OFFICERS ARE LIARS!!!!
The two officers (can't remember their names) bizarrely were asked to jointly sign an affidavit drafted by the prosecutor. The affidavit gave no specific reasons for what they sworn the believed happened, but that for unstated reasons they had good reason to believe their statement. Yet at the hearing, they stated they had NO knowledge to back it up and instead believed it was each the other one who had such information - the prosecutor having played one off the other. IN EFFECT, BOTH OFFICERS LIED IN WRITING UNDER OATH.

THE WITNESS WHO SAID HE SAW GZ ON THE BOTTOM AND THEN CHANGED HIS STORY AFTER A secret meeting with prosecution, IS A LIAR!!!

Of great important to the Defense and something I think would outrage any juror is police officers openly saying they were pressured to lie for the prosecution by threats against their job if they did not - and given the Chief was fired for not supporting prosecution and Serino demoted for not doing so at first - verifies that accusation by officers is true.

When it is PROVEN and supported by police witnesses and actually actions that the prosecution was applying massive pressure on people to lie and change their story to save themselves, I think any legitimate jury would not give ANY credence to ANY statement by ANY prosecution witness.

NOTABLY, GZ haters have NO problem whatsoever with witnesses 100% telling the exact opposite stories IF it supports prosecution. They CHEER prosecution witnesses LYING as much and as extreme as is possible.

Why isn't there more discussion about prosecution liars - other than us believing in due process for GZ aren't raging spammers posting the same messages hundreds of times over?

How can the prosecutor legitimately win with all major witnesses are proven liars about this case AND it proven the prosecution was threatening people if they won't lie for her case?

WHAT OTHER LIES HAVE PROSECUTION WITNESSES TOLD?
Click to expand...

Sounds like you belong to the same group as joko...
 
Curious now no anti-GZ people bother trying to defense prosecution witnesses lying - because this is a topic they lose.
 
I am accurate, why no anti-GZ will touch trying to defend prosecution witnesses.
 
Don't you think Zimmerman WANTED this in the court of public opinion? Long before this was a major issue, he called Hannity for an interview, and started cyber-panhandling for defense funds about April 10th.

. That is when his notoriety caught on.

If Zimmerman was NOT interested in being in the public eye, why do that, why start a defense fund? Following that, he did indeed want to do an interview with Hannity.

Fundraising website of George Zimmerman, suspect in Trayvon Martin case, is shut down | Fox News
 
^ :eek:t

After massive false and openly lying smear campaign against him - that continues - he wanted to tell his side.

Because the false smear campaign continues - such as you posting over 6000 times representing Trayvon Martin as a 12 year old boy - he also had to continue.

After the prosecutor and judge agreed to take away virtually all defense and investigator's money to try to force him to plea out in their campaign to try to instill a sense of hopelessness against an unlimitedly corrupt legal system against him, he attempted to again raise defense funds.

Yes, I know it outrages you that he tells his side and might have any legal representation whatsoever.
 
MadLib said:
Nice call-out thread, Joko. You're partially right, though - it is tough to admit certain discrepancies in one's own story, like how Martin took extra long to get home, and if you go with Dee's version, why would they suddenly start scuffling (this could either support or go against Zimmerman). The bond thing is kind of big, though: lying about how much money you have casts SERIOUS doubts on your credibility as a witness. I'm sure the prosecution has done some dubious manipulation too - such is what is going to happen in an overly publicized trial. I think that the media is probably exaggerating what both the prosecution and the defense are saying - only the people directly involved in the case can really have ANY idea over whether Zimmerman was acting in self-defense or not. This hyperbolic troll thread does neither side any favors, though.
Click to expand...

If Zimmerman is allowed to take the stand, I think the jury will understand why he lied about that. First, he may not have been absolutely certain that money was his to use as he wanted to. Second, he was freakin' scared. That guy and his wife (who will probably divorce him) are totally ruined financially. I don't even know how he's living...probably with the help of his family, I suppose.

Presume him innocent. (That's what we're supposed to do, after all.) He can't work. His wife lost her job. He's got months and months to wait for a trial. Where is one supposed to get money to live on if not from the donations that came in on the internet?

If I were on the jury, I'd understand...
 
I've noted on other threads how in GZ's situation of a broken nose and head slammed down many times, it is instinctive that the person will do ANYTHING to try to survive.

People will do what they must to survive. Law doesn't change that. He had no money, had been literally ordered not to have a job when out on bond first time nor could he safely get a job with waves of death threats, he was seriously in debt, both he and his wife unemployed, his wife removed from school just for being his wife, with no way to pay rent, buy food or gas - let alone the massive legal expenses.

In a curious way, given that O'Mara had said the defense will cost TWO MILLION DOLLARS - and since the money specifically raised (according to website) was ONLY for 1.) GZ's living expenses and 2.) legal defense - I can also easily see how in desperation he would calculate that money was not money available for bond because even more than that is required for legal defense plus living expenses. Thus he had less than $0 if calculated that way.

Actually, that is how money is often calculated. Assets a person has versus financial obligations a person has. GZ had many thousands of dollars in expenses, car loan contract legal obligations, rent contract obligations, credit card debt obligations and a $2 million dollar legal obligation in front of him.

It is almost bizarre that the prosecutor and judge claimed that paying your lawyer when you are charged with murder is not a necessary-to-pay expense - and even that it was perjured lying to plan to pay your lawyer. Oh, yes, the judge and prosecutor also insisting he had a legal obligation to stiff the car loan companies, credit card companies and landlord too.

IF you have $10,000 in the bank but you are $50,000 in lawful obligations, what is the honest question to "how much available money do you have to buy a car?" Is "ZERO" a truthful answer? That certainly is how bankruptcy court figures it. Why would it be different for bond? And the right to bond is a constitutional right, buying a car isn't.

Give GZ's legal obligations/debt and his other debts and legal obligations, if he had told a bankrupcy court that he is worth a net less than $0 I think that would be a legally defensive answer - and that is to the lesser standards of a civil court. Actually, given the $2 million dollar legal bill, the total net worth of GZ was -1,770,000.00 (1.7 million in debt if you count $200K in contributions).

But, as you note, if a person is back-to-the-wall and behind shoved into total ruin will try to find any way to survive. That's includes economically.

Lastly, it is annoying at the extreme indignation of OMG! GZ lied!!!!
Everyone lies now and then. That doesn't make a person a murderer. That doesn't make everything they say a lie.
 
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Why is Joko still making threads about GZ? The guy is toast and there isn't a race war dream in Joko's mind that'll change that. :shrug:
 
sharon said:
Don't you think Zimmerman WANTED this in the court of public opinion? Long before this was a major issue, he called Hannity for an interview, and started cyber-panhandling for defense funds about April 10th.

. That is when his notoriety caught on.

If Zimmerman was NOT interested in being in the public eye, why do that, why start a defense fund? Following that, he did indeed want to do an interview with Hannity.

Fundraising website of George Zimmerman, suspect in Trayvon Martin case, is shut down | Fox News
Click to expand...

^ The first half is false. He was under national attack by Democratic politicians long before he pursued telling his side and certainly before asking for donations.

And yes, we understand you want GZ to have no attorney nor be allowed to make any defense - either to his reputation publicly or in court. Instead, you want such as you now falsely representing GZ as an innocent perfect 16 year old child over 6,000 times just on this forum to be unchallenged - rather than a 165 pound, 6' 2" assailant.
 
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