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Is The HOA Liable?

Pinkie said:
We have had an ad hoc Safety Committee here (separate and in addition to the Neighborhood Watch) in my HOA for some time. I cannot tell you how nervous it makes me, this suggestion that they may not have hit all the bells and whistles to avoid creating liability for me.
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You can take out additional insurance that would cover you if somebody screws up... I don't know what the cost would be.

If you are nervous.. why not have a homeowners meeting and invite a HOA attorney to talk. You sound so sensible to me...

Sometimes... its also a good idea to look at the ratio of owner occupied homes versus renter occupied homes.. Not to sound mean..but if you have too many renters, your risk increases.
 
Pinkie said:
How do I control my neighbors, Sharon?
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Well, you can't.. but if they aren't participating in NW, the HOA wouldn't be liable.

What your objective should be IMO.. is to share information in such a way that they understand their vested interests... a home is a big investment for most people.

I lived in a precious neighborhood in Myrtle Beach for several years.. and the HOA was great.. We didn't have streets.. just "Lanes".. So we didn't allow motorcycles or RVs..
 
Excon said:
No one really cares what you boys thought.
And based on the views you have presented here, one has to wonder if their thoughts are as convoluted as your are?
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I can assure you that none of them will get carried away and kill an innocent person.

This isn't about "convoluted" thoughts.. its about knowing the law, protecting your interests and staying out of trouble.
 
Pinkie said:
Excon wrote in part:



I can't imagine on what theory the HOA could sue Martin's estate. What duty did he owe? What damage did he cause them?

As for whether Martin's mother should be ashamed of suing, no, even if the suit is frivolous I don't blame her. I blame the lawyer who no doubt intruded on her grief and strongarmed her into this.
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I would sue the socks off of them.. If you don't hit them where it hurts, they will tolerate idiots like George.
 
Pinkie said:
I can't imagine on what theory the HOA could sue Martin's estate. What duty did he owe? What damage did he cause them?
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Try harder.


Pinkie said:
As for whether Martin's mother should be ashamed of suing, no, even if the suit is frivolous I don't blame her. I blame the lawyer who no doubt intruded on her grief and strongarmed her into this.
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You think she was strong-armed? lol I doubt it. But if you have evidence of such, please provide it.

AFAIAC; They are of equal responsibility. Crump being a shyster would have no shame. But she and Trayvon's father should.
So yes, they should be ashamed.

Unless they too are shysters and incapable of it.
And with Trayvon's fathers familiarity with a gang. I just do not know.
 
sharon said:
I would sue the socks off of them.. If you don't hit them where it hurts, they will tolerate idiots like George.
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If they afford to buy here, even an idiot has a right to be my neighbor.

But I do appreciate your suggestion about asking my HOA to look at this. I may just do so.
 
Excon said:
Try harder.


You think she was strong-armed? lol I doubt it. But if you have evidence of such, please provide it.
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Florida lawyer? Of course I think so.

AFAIAC; They are of equal responsibility. Crump being a shyster would have no shame. But she and Trayvon's father should.
So yes, they should be ashamed.

Unless they too are shysters and incapable of it.
And with Trayvon's fathers familiarity with a gang. I just do not know.
Click to expand...

Seems to me you are going to extremes to demonize this family. That adds nothing to this thread, IMO.
 
Pinkie said:
If they afford to buy here, even an idiot has a right to be my neighbor.

But I do appreciate your suggestion about asking my HOA to look at this. I may just do so.
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Pinkie.. I know by now that you are a discerning woman.. If some old Macho f*rt with guns and too much attitude wants to run NW.. all your red flags would go up.

Heck.. if its an affluent neighborhood.. Hire a trained, bonded security company.
 
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Pinkie said:
Seems to me you are going to extremes to demonize this family. That adds nothing to this thread, IMO.
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Saying they should be ashamed, and held responsible is not demonizing them.

Additionally, you are the one who opened the door to further speculation.
Trayvon's father is familiar with a gang, whether a member or not I do not know. But being close to them says volumes.
It also speaks to Trayvon's mother's as well. Being that birds of a feather tend to flock together.

But that is not demonizing them.
And unlike what Sharon does on a daily basis to Zimmerman. Not even close.


So if you have evidence that Sybina is being strong-armed by Crump, please present it.
I would like to see it.
 
Excon said:
Saying they should be ashamed, and held responsible is not demonizing them.

Additionally, you are the one who opened the door to further speculation.
Trayvon's father is familiar with a gang, whether a member or not I do not know. But being close to them says volumes.
It also speaks to Trayvon's mother's as well. Being that birds of a feather tend to flock together.

But that is not demonizing them.
And unlike what Sharon does on a daily basis to Zimmerman. Not even close.


So if you have evidence that Sybina is being strong-armed by Crump, please present it.
I would like to see it.
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My "evidence" is my past experience with bereaved people and lawyers in general.

As for all this name-calling, I don't see why you feel the need to include it. What's it add to the weight of your POVs? I still don't know if you agree with me or not that the HOA is not liable (most likely); all I do know is you have a rage on for Sharon. You probably do have a cogent argument to make on this topic -- may I know what that is?
 
sharon said:
Pinkie.. I know by now that you are a discerning woman.. If some old Macho f*rt with guns and too much attitude wants to run NW.. all your red flags would go up.

Heck.. if its an affluent neighborhood.. Hire a trained, bonded security company.
Click to expand...

We probably will hire a security guard, and no doubt, he'll be trained and his company will be bonded.

That won't keep all the wanna-bees from their "patrols", Sharon. I doubt anything could. And who am I to tell anyone in my HOA not to go for walks?
 
Pinkie said:
As for all this name-calling, I don't see why you feel the need to include it. What's it add to the weight of your POVs? I still don't know if you agree with me or not that the HOA is not liable (most likely);
Click to expand...
Saying someone should be ashamed is not name calling or as you previously indicated, demonizing.
That is what you took issue with, my saying they should be ashamed.

You then opened the door to further speculation by saying she (Sybina) was being strong-armed by the lawyer.
That is that act of a shyster. So yeah, I called him a name.
But you did open the door to further speculation about the mother and Father's actions.
That was not demonizing them or calling them names, but was further speculating on the motives.
You can either recognize that or not, but it was not demonizing or calling them names.

So don't call me on something that isn't true. Especially after you opened the door to my comments.


Pinkie said:
all I do know is you have a rage on for Sharon.
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I am more than positive that you have that reversed.
If you had participated more you would know that.


Pinkie said:
You probably do have a cogent argument to make on this topic -- may I know what that is?
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Nope. Except for not recognizing the suit the home owners could have against the family if Zimmerman succeeds at either a pretrial hearing or trial, you are doing fine on your own.
 
Pinkie said:
We probably will hire a security guard, and no doubt, he'll be trained and his company will be bonded.

That won't keep all the wanna-bees from their "patrols", Sharon. I doubt anything could. And who am I to tell anyone in my HOA not to go for walks?
Click to expand...


Only a fool would be part of anything called "neighborhood watch" anymore. There is some bizarre view that a condition of being "neighborhood watch" is you must abandon:

1. Your rights under the US Constitution's Bill of Rights
2. Your right to due process
3. Your right to have a firearm
4. Your right to self defense
5. Your right to observe where a fleeing suspicious person is running to

and you must agree that you have a duty to agree to die if assaulted.

Here, Neighborhood Watch was dissolved when Obama made his statement that it is all about race. There also was a dramatic turn against the Democratic Sheriff and ALL local Democratic officials - for the first time the whole County is going Republican and Democrats can't even field candidates for most offices.

Neighborhood Watch itself has been replaced with with guys in 4x4 pickup trucks flying 3' x 5' Confederate flags and carrying AR15s and 12 gauge shotguns. They openly are NOT Neighborhood Watch and don't plan on bothering the police with telephone calls.

There have been an unusually high number of unsolved murders/killings lately, no suspects, such as the person shot nearly 30 times thru the car at a residential stop sign. It also seems to be an increasing number of disappearing people. People who don't like like who Obama said is the correct race (the race he looks like) deciding to move elsewhere.

The easiest way to address disagreement with the "rules" of the national Sheriff's Association political lobby organization is to openly have nothing to do with it and run under a Confederate flags rather than Neighborhood Watch signs so there is no misrepresentation of what "tenants' they are following. One of those tenants seems to be a standard Obama declared - look out for people who racially look like they could be related to you. Guess what race that is for guys flying Confederate flags? Obama wanted racial division in the context of criminal justice and he got it.

The real effects of the political prosecution of GZ as a get-out-the-vote campaign of National Democrats are horrific, and part of the current political slaughter of Democrats.

BUT, there are NO ARMED "Neighborhood Watcher" people (there is no neighborhood watch) so I guess its good news. We certainly wouldn't want anyone in a "neighborhood watch" group being armed.
 
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Pinkie said:
We probably will hire a security guard, and no doubt, he'll be trained and his company will be bonded.

That won't keep all the wanna-bees from their "patrols", Sharon. I doubt anything could. And who am I to tell anyone in my HOA not to go for walks?
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with going for a walk.. or reporting weird people.. Unless they think they are cops.

Call your insurance agent and get some extra liability.. Vigilantes are always so full of hot air.. they never stop to think.. So protect yourself and your own interests.
 
^ But you are vigilante in the extreme by your messages about GZ. So I guess I found something I agree with you on.
 
joko104 said:
^ But you are vigilante in the extreme by your messages about GZ. So I guess I found something I agree with you on.
Click to expand...

I most definitely want George to have due process and a fair trial.

I don't think he has a chance because he simpy can't shut up.. So many lies and contradictions.

In the Hannity interview.. George was saying that he wouldn't do anything differently...blah, blah, blah.... but when he said it was 'God's Plan'.... O'Mara turned and looked at him with an expression I have never seen before.

George is so dumb and so eager for attention.. he is to be pitied.
 
Pinkie said:
We have had an ad hoc Safety Committee here (separate and in addition to the Neighborhood Watch) in my HOA for some time. I cannot tell you how nervous it makes me, this suggestion that they may not have hit all the bells and whistles to avoid creating liability for me.
Click to expand...

One thing that may help is to make sure you go on record as voting against or abstaining as a voter in issues that could cause you liability. I and several of my neighbors resigned the HOA due to an issue of possible civil liability. It did not involve a death, though. In our HOA you were not required to join. Being required to join or not could also be a barrier as in the ones you are required to join, you have no choice. Those NW programs are usually under the auspecis and teaching of the police. If your HOA is doing a NW program without police consult, then you should inform the police of the matter so they can intervene. If Zimmerman had the orientation given by the police and decided to go out on his own armed, I don't see how the HOA members could be personally liable. But as has been stated earlier, as of yet Zimmerman stands as an innocent man because there has been no verdict of guilt.
 
Maenad said:
One thing that may help is to make sure you go on record as voting against or abstaining as a voter in issues that could cause you liability. I and several of my neighbors resigned the HOA due to an issue of possible civil liability. It did not involve a death, though. In our HOA you were not required to join. Being required to join or not could also be a barrier as in the ones you are required to join, you have no choice. Those NW programs are usually under the auspecis and teaching of the police.

If your HOA is doing a NW program without police consult, then you should inform the police of the matter so they can intervene. If Zimmerman had the orientation given by the police and decided to go out on his own armed, I don't see how the HOA members could be personally liable. But as has been stated earlier, as of yet Zimmerman stands as an innocent man because there has been no verdict of guilt.
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Hmmmm.. Good advice about the vote.

Zimmerman was given the training in Nov 2011 when a Sherrif's liaison attended an HOA meeting and gave NW instructions and a presentation.
 
joko104 said:
Only a fool would be part of anything called "neighborhood watch" anymore. There is some bizarre view that a condition of being "neighborhood watch" is you must abandon:

1. Your rights under the US Constitution's Bill of Rights
2. Your right to due process
3. Your right to have a firearm
4. Your right to self defense
5. Your right to observe where a fleeing suspicious person is running to

and you must agree that you have a duty to agree to die if assaulted.

Here, Neighborhood Watch was dissolved when Obama made his statement that it is all about race. There also was a dramatic turn against the Democratic Sheriff and ALL local Democratic officials - for the first time the whole County is going Republican and Democrats can't even field candidates for most offices.

Neighborhood Watch itself has been replaced with with guys in 4x4 pickup trucks flying 3' x 5' Confederate flags and carrying AR15s and 12 gauge shotguns. They openly are NOT Neighborhood Watch and don't plan on bothering the police with telephone calls.

There have been an unusually high number of unsolved murders/killings lately, no suspects, such as the person shot nearly 30 times thru the car at a residential stop sign. It also seems to be an increasing number of disappearing people. People who don't like like who Obama said is the correct race (the race he looks like) deciding to move elsewhere.

The easiest way to address disagreement with the "rules" of the national Sheriff's Association political lobby organization is to openly have nothing to do with it and run under a Confederate flags rather than Neighborhood Watch signs so there is no misrepresentation of what "tenants' they are following. One of those tenants seems to be a standard Obama declared - look out for people who racially look like they could be related to you. Guess what race that is for guys flying Confederate flags? Obama wanted racial division in the context of criminal justice and he got it.

The real effects of the political prosecution of GZ as a get-out-the-vote campaign of National Democrats are horrific, and part of the current political slaughter of Democrats.

BUT, there are NO ARMED "Neighborhood Watcher" people (there is no neighborhood watch) so I guess its good news. We certainly wouldn't want anyone in a "neighborhood watch" group being armed.
Click to expand...

I think you mean 'tenet.'
 
sharon said:
I most definitely want George to have due process and a fair trial.

I don't think he has a chance because he simpy can't shut up.. So many lies and contradictions.

In the Hannity interview.. George was saying that he wouldn't do anything differently...blah, blah, blah.... but when he said it was 'God's Plan'.... O'Mara turned and looked at him with an expression I have never seen before.

George is so dumb and so eager for attention.. he is to be pitied.
Click to expand...


Most people don't openly hate and ridicule religions people as you do.

Obviously George Zimmerman is 10 times smarter than Trayvon Martin was. Martin is who made it face to face and who turned it into physical violence or so it seems. Trayvon Martin is dead. George Zimmerman isn't.
 
Maenad said:
One thing that may help is to make sure you go on record as voting against or abstaining as a voter in issues that could cause you liability. I and several of my neighbors resigned the HOA due to an issue of possible civil liability. It did not involve a death, though. In our HOA you were not required to join. Being required to join or not could also be a barrier as in the ones you are required to join, you have no choice. Those NW programs are usually under the auspecis and teaching of the police. If your HOA is doing a NW program without police consult, then you should inform the police of the matter so they can intervene. If Zimmerman had the orientation given by the police and decided to go out on his own armed, I don't see how the HOA members could be personally liable. But as has been stated earlier, as of yet Zimmerman stands as an innocent man because there has been no verdict of guilt.
Click to expand...

"Intervene" how? For liabilities no one should involve in any way with anything called "Neighborhood Watch" anymore than anyone should involve with any organization called the "KKK" now, including the police. "Neighborhood Watch" is now not only politically incorrect to the extreme, but a huge legal liability for anyone to have those words attached to them.

When people call the police, they should begin any call reporting anything by saying "First, I want it clearlyl known that I'm not part of any neighborhood watch group. I am not looking out for my neighbors or anyone else and I assure you that I never will. This is only about me and I am safely in my house not watching anyone."
 
joko104 said:
Most people don't openly hate and ridicule religions people as you do.

Obviously George Zimmerman is 10 times smarter than Trayvon Martin was. Martin is who made it face to face and who turned it into physical violence or so it seems. Trayvon Martin is dead. George Zimmerman isn't.
Click to expand...

George isn't religious.. He's a con and a freeloader..

At the end of this pdf file you will find George's email exchanges as NW Captain and the HOA newsletters that identify GZ as their NW guy. repeatedly.

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/357450/trayvon-martin-documents-ocr.pdf

You will also note that there were 7 nonviolent burglaries (without forced entry) on Retreat View Ciricle in the previous year.. Two black males were convicted in unrelated thefts and GZ had no part in their arrests.
 
joko104 said:
Most people don't openly hate and ridicule religions people as you do.

Obviously George Zimmerman is 10 times smarter than Trayvon Martin was. Martin is who made it face to face and who turned it into physical violence or so it seems. Trayvon Martin is dead. George Zimmerman isn't.
Click to expand...

George had a .5 grade point average which he ultimately raised to 1.38 GPR.. but he's been in a two year college program since 2003. No doubt that is your version of 'smart".
 
Pinkie said:
We probably will hire a security guard, and no doubt, he'll be trained and his company will be bonded.

That won't keep all the wanna-bees from their "patrols", Sharon. I doubt anything could. And who am I to tell anyone in my HOA not to go for walks?
Click to expand...

I came across this.. and I thought you would get a laugh.

The leader of our neighborhood watch is named Beryl. She is approximately 115 years old and does not suffer fools gladly. Her secret weapon for neighborhood harmony? The tater tot casserole. And I wouldn’t have it any other way, despite the fact that there have been several burglaries, a hostage situation involving a machete, and a stolen car in my neighborhood over the past two years.

The Trayvon Martin case: Why Frank Taaffe is as scary as George Zimmerman « SkewedDistribution

Getting the job done without the Taaffe/Zimmerman mindset.
 
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