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Is Zimmerman Guilty W/O The Stand Your Ground Law?[W: 217, 225]

sharon said:
Trayvon ASKED George, Why are you following me?

George was too stupid to answer a civil question.
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What took you so long sharon? I was beginning to think maybe you had decided to stop with the irrelevant replies and silly personal insults of Zimmerman, and present your beliefs just on the facts like any honest person would... Silly me.
 
muciti said:
good point.
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I am open minded enough to accept a different verdict when that time comes - they, at that point - would know more than me . . . I do concede to the decision of the law.
 
Grim17 said:
What took you so long sharon? I was beginning to think maybe you had decided to stop with the irrelevant replies and silly personal insults of Zimmerman, and present your beliefs just on the facts like any honest person would... Silly me.
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according to zimmerman he didnt really have a chance before martin began his assault.
 
muciti said:
It is if you decide to attempt to beat him to death. If you want to equate parts of the story, try to equate them all.
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No one knows what Martin's intent was. As for me, if I felt threatened I might well feel aggressive and if armed, who knows? But for the penalties of law for killing one another, how safe would any of us be?
 
muciti said:
according to zimmerman he didnt really have a chance before martin began his assault.
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Why not? George had been following Trayvon since he came thru the unfenced shortcut on Oregon avenue.
 
Pinkie said:
No one knows what Martin's intent was. As for me, if I felt threatened I might well feel aggressive and if armed, who knows? But for the penalties of law for killing one another, how safe would any of us be?
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It isn't about Martin's intent, it's about his actions.

This case is about a physical confrontation and assault, and a persons right to defend themselves if they feel their life is in imminent danger. If Zimmerman's accounts are true, and thus far there is nothing to indicate they aren't, this comes down to whether he had the right to use deadly force to defend himself or not.
 
Grim17 said:
Watch now as the usual crowd jumps in to argue against this post, and does so with a pile of irrelevant information, baseless speculation, and not one damned thing to directly contradict anything I wrote... Enter sharon and thunder.
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But the flashlight.....the keys!!!!!!
 
Thunder said:
not if they are acting in self-defense.

and not if the beating doesn't lead to a reasonable fear of death.
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We can refer to those as a "soft beating." You know, where they beat you gently.
 
muciti said:
stranger beating you = reasonable fear of death
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WRONG

simply losing a fight does not automatically give one a reasonable fear of death...and the right to use deadly force.

if Zimmerman tries that with the jury, he is toast
 
Thunder said:
SYG defends Trayvon Martin's actions, not Zimm's.
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[FONT=arial, sans-serif]You don't know what you are talking about
[/FONT]
 
sharon said:
Trayvon ASKED George, Why are you following me?

George was too stupid to answer a civil question.
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He answered with a question. IMO, asking what a person is doing here is not unreasonalbe.

IMO, both GZ and TM esculated the situation. A young teen wanting to show the ol"wannabe cop", and the "wannabe cop" not wanting someone to get away till the police got on scene.
IMO, it all boils down to who threw the first punch? My hunch it was TM.
 
Thunder said:
WRONG

simply losing a fight does not automatically give one a reasonable fear of death...and the right to use deadly force.

if Zimmerman tries that with the jury, he is toast
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I have got to ask, when could a person who is loosing a fight, fear for their life? then have the right to use deadly force?
 
I would like to point out that I know our Travvy lovers think he could do no wrong, but there were many things, at many times, that he could have done and he'd still be sucking air today.

1. When he saw Zimmerman following him, he could have ran, I mean flat out boogeyed, to the house where he came from. No way that little fat guy following him could keep up. Result: He'd be alive.
2. Had he violated option 1 and confronted Zim, when Zim said what are you doing here or whatever, he could have ran at that point. Result: He'd be alive.
3. Had he violated option 1 and 2 and confronted Zim and when Zim asked him what are you doing here, he could have needlessly punched him dead in the face and taken off running. Result: He'd be alive.

Not one of the above instances could Zim say he feared for his life, and had he then shot and killed Travvy, I would be all over his ass and want him down for murder. But he didn't. He only shot when he was on his back getting beat. Bad decision for Travvy.

So I don't want anyone to say that Zims actions killed Travvy. Travvy was not innocent and made many stupid decisions, one of which cost him his life.

But to answer the OP: I don't know how to answer it. Had there not been a SYG law Zim might have done something different. I don't know. You could ask unlimited "if" questions.
 
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Thunder said:
not if they are acting in self-defense.
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As I've already stated several times on this forum, according to Florida law, even if Martin were deemed to have been acting in self defense, when he ignored Zimmerman's cries for help (which clearly indicated he gave up and wanted to end the physical confrontation), and he continued beating him, that made Martin the aggressor and gave Zimmerman the legal right to defend himself according to Florida's self defense laws.
 
Grim17 said:
As I've already stated several times on this forum, according to Florida law, even if Martin were deemed to have been acting in self defense, when he ignored Zimmerman's cries for help (which clearly indicated he gave up and wanted to end the physical confrontation), and he continued beating him, that made Martin the aggressor and gave Zimmerman the legal right to defend himself according to Florida's self defense laws.
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the court might find that as Zimmerman stalked Martin in his car and on foot, that makes HIM the aggressor.

the author of Florida's SYG law himself stated that this law does not apply to Zimmerman, due to his pursuit of Martin.
 
Pinkie said:
So, if a man follows me home and I avoid him, that is fine. But if I try and find him so I can report him to the cops, that should be grounds for killing me?
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No, but when you go bashing the guys head into the concrete then it is.
 
Thunder said:
the court might find that as Zimmerman stalked Martin in his car and on foot, that makes HIM the aggressor.

the author of Florida's SYG law himself stated that this law does not apply to Zimmerman, due to his pursuit of Martin.
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The court might find TM the aggressor, through the first punch and would not stop.

Your right on one thing. The court will decide.
 
Thunder said:
the author of Florida's SYG law himself stated that this law does not apply to Zimmerman, due to his pursuit of Martin.
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The author doesn't get to decide that, the judge and jury do.
 
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