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Is the account given by eyewitness "John" in Zimmerman's case reliable?

Do you still believe this witness' account before being thoroughly cross-examined?

  • Yes, as Zimmerman supporter I still do.

    Votes: 2 22.2%

  • No, as Zimmerman supporter I changed my mind.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Yes, being neutral I still believe this eyewitness.

    Votes: 4 44.4%

  • No, I never believe anything other than in 911 tape only.

    Votes: 3 33.3%
  • Total voters
    9
sharon said:
You may find this interesting. The officer failed to identify himself and assaulted GZ first..
Click to expand...
Why do you find this important?
Presently I see it as irrelevant to the fear the Trayvon induced in Zimmerman.
 
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Excon said:
Why do you find this important?
Presently I see it as irrelevant to the fear the Trayvon induced in Zimmerman.
Click to expand...

How fearful could Zimmerman have been? He followed the boy for 10 minutes and he had a gun.

Trayvon should have remembered the rules.


“Don’t run in public.” Lest someone think you’re suspicious.

“Don’t run while carrying anything in your hands.” Lest someone think you stole something.

“Don’t talk back to the police.” Lest you give them a reason to take you to jail or worse
 
sharon said:
How fearful could Zimmerman have been? He followed the boy for 10 minutes and he had a gun.
Click to expand...
There you go again.
More dishonesty.
You know very well that I was speaking about the moments where Zimmerman was placed in fear. Not prior to.
 
Excon said:
There you go again.
More dishonesty.
You know very well that I was speaking about the moments where Zimmerman was placed in fear. Not prior to.
Click to expand...

WHO "placed Zimmerman in fear"?

At some point even a 28 year old with a gun has to be accountable for his actions.
 
sharon said:
WHO "placed Zimmerman in fear"?

At some point even a 28 year old with a gun has to be accountable for his actions.
Click to expand...
More games and dishonesty from you. You never fail to deliver that.

You know damn well what was being said. Trayvon placing Zimmerman in fear of GBH or imminent loss of life. That specific moment in time.

You do not hold a person responsible for doing the right thing.
 
Excon said:
More games and dishonesty from you. You never fail to deliver that.

You know damn well what was being said. Trayvon placing Zimmerman in fear of GBH or imminent loss of life. That specific moment in time.

You do not hold a person responsible for doing the right thing.
Click to expand...

Killing a person is not the right thing. Trayvon was not a threat to George or to the neighborhood..

Trayvon had nothing to do with George... George was living in his own world. I am just stunned that you can't see that. .. I think a jury will see it.
 
sharon said:
Killing a person is not the right thing. Trayvon was not a threat to George or to the neighborhood..

Trayvon had nothing to do with George... George was living in his own world. I am just stunned that you can't see that. .. I think a jury will see it.
Click to expand...
When a person is slamming your head into the ground to harm you, there is nothing wrong with shooting that person. I am stunned that you can't understand that!

Secondly; since it was Trayvon doing this to Zimmerman, Trayvon was definitely a Threat.
 
Excon said:
When a person is slamming your head into the ground to harm you, there is nothing wrong with shooting that person. I am stunned that you can't understand that!

Secondly; since it was Trayvon doing this to Zimmerman, Trayvon was definitely a Threat.
Click to expand...

I am just not getting thru to you..

If someone "thinks" that you look like a rapist or bank robber or mugger.. and acts on that.. they put YOU in danger. You don't know what that person is "thinking"... and you aren't responsible for what they are "thinking".

So you are oblivious to this drama playing out in your pursuer's head... and you certainly are no threat EXCEPT in the mind of the man with the gun.

Tryvon was NOT a threat.. The threat arose in George because of his lack of judgment and impulse control.
 
sharon said:
I am just not getting thru to you..

If someone "thinks" that you look like a rapist or bank robber or mugger.. and acts on that.. they put YOU in danger. You don't know what that person is "thinking"... and you aren't responsible for what they are "thinking".

So you are oblivious to this drama playing out in your pursuer's head... and you certainly are no threat EXCEPT in the mind of the man with the gun.

Tryvon was NOT a threat.. The threat arose in George because of his lack of judgment and impulse control.
Click to expand...
Wrong!

The threat was Trayvcon slamming Zimmerman's head into the ground.
Not Zimmerman for following a suspicious person to point that person out to police when they arrive.
 
That's what neighborhood watch does. It watches suspicious people to advise police.


Sharon already admitted that Martin would have be acting weird for wandering about talking on an ear piece that Zimmerman couldn't see because of Martin's hood.

There is nothing to show that Martin was "innocent" for the time passage he was not going straight home.
 
joko104 said:
That's what neighborhood watch does. It watches suspicious people to advise police.


Sharon already admitted that Martin would have be acting weird for wandering about talking on an ear piece that Zimmerman couldn't see because of Martin's hood.

There is nothing to show that Martin was "innocent" for the time passage he was not going straight home.
Click to expand...

The investigators determined that Trayvon was not doing anything unlawful..

Trayvon could have been walking home from a friend's house.. There are any number of possibilities.. The "problem" was in George's head.. in George's imagination NOT in Tryvon's behaviour.

This is why NW calls the police.. They don't follow and confront... unless they are intelligent enough to identify themselves.

George could have been following YOU.. assuming that you were a rapist or a mugger or a burglar..

George is NOT a victim here.. He's an idiot with a gun.
 
sharon said:
The investigators determined that Trayvon was not doing anything unlawful..
Click to expand...
:doh
Why do you keep saying this?
This matters not.

He was doing nothing wrong up to the point of assaulting Zimmerman.
That is clearly what what was meant.
Especially when one looks at what Serino said after that report.


sharon said:
NOT in Tryvon's behaviour.
Click to expand...
:doh
Most definitely wrong!
Trayvon's behavior is what got him shot.


sharon said:
George is NOT a victim here..
Click to expand...
Yes he is!
 
Excon said:
:doh
Why do you keep saying this?
This matters not.

He was doing nothing wrong up to the point of assaulting Zimmerman.
That is clearly what what was meant.
Especially when one looks at what Serino said after that report.


:doh
Most definitely wrong!
Trayvon's behavior is what got him shot.


Yes he is!
Click to expand...

Tell me about Trayvon's "behaviour".. and please be specific.

I think what you are doing is holding Trayvon accountable for the crap in George's head.

With a few minor adjustments to George's profiling criteria.. he could have been following YOU on a cool, rainy night.
 
sharon said:
Tell me about Trayvon's "behaviour".. and please be specific.
Click to expand...
Still being dishonest eh?
Fine lets just keep repeating Trayvon's actions.
lol
:doh

Trayvon's behavior
Breaking someone's nose.
Repeatedly slamming someone's head into the ground.​



Just stop with your dishonesty.





sharon said:
With a few minor adjustments to George's profiling criteria.. he could have been following YOU on a cool, rainy night.
Click to expand...
So what?
Let him.

I surely wouldn't attack him or start slamming his head into the ground.
 
Excon said:
Still being dishonest eh?
Fine lets just keep repeating Trayvon's actions.
lol
:doh

Trayvon's behavior
Breaking someone's nose.
Repeatedly slamming someone's head into the ground.​



Just stop with your dishonesty.






So what?
Let him.

I surely wouldn't attack him or start slamming his head into the ground.
Click to expand...

Neither would Trayvon... that's the whole point....

George KNOWS why Trayvon punched him.
 
sharon said:
Neither would Trayvon... that's the whole point....
Click to expand...
Wrong!

There is no point there.

Trayvon could have been safe inside the home he was visiting.
Instead he chose not to be and decided to lay-in-wait for Zimmerman and confronted him.
His actions do not qualify as "neither would Trayvon"!
 
Excon said:
Wrong!

There is no point there.

Trayvon could have been safe inside the home he was visiting.
Instead he chose not to be and decided to lay-in-wait for Zimmerman and confronted him.
His actions do not qualify as "neither would Trayvon"!
Click to expand...

He wasn't lying in wait. He was talking on the phone and waiting to see if the creepy stranger was still following him.. There is a huge difference.

If you take a crime.. like robbing a convenience store... Say the perp gets shot by the guy at the counter.. They look at the WHOLE crime sequence, not just the moment when the clerk pulled the trigger.
 
sharon said:
They look at the WHOLE crime sequence, not just the moment when the clerk pulled the trigger.
Click to expand...
Which you are not doing in this case. You make up what you want to be true but do not go by the evidence.


sharon said:
He wasn't lying in wait. He was talking on the phone and waiting to see if the creepy stranger was still following him.. There is a huge difference.
Click to expand...
Zimmerman is following him.
Trayvon runs.
At some point Zimmerman realizes he lost him and turns around to return to his vehicle. Trayvon then approaches from the rear.
That's the evidence.


If Trayvon was anywhere in sight Zimmerman would have seen him.
For Trayvon to have been out of sight, but close enough to approach Zimmerman from behind, means he was hiding.
His hiding, but not continuing to hide shows that he wasn't afraid.
His hiding, but not continuing to hide and instead attacking Zimmerman from the rear, indicates that he intended to do the same thing once Zimmerman had passed his hiding spot.
That is laying-in-wait.


Yes dear, his actions indicates that he laid-in-wait.
 
Excon said:
Which you are not doing in this case. You make up what you want to be true but do not go by the evidence.


Zimmerman is following him.
Trayvon runs.
At some point Zimmerman realizes he lost him and turns around to return to his vehicle. Trayvon then approaches from the rear.
That's the evidence.


If Trayvon was anywhere in sight Zimmerman would have seen him.
For Trayvon to have been out of sight, but close enough to approach Zimmerman from behind, means he was hiding.
His hiding, but not continuing to hide shows that he wasn't afraid.
His hiding, but not continuing to hide and instead attacking Zimmerman from the rear, indicates that he intended to do the same thing once Zimmerman had passed his hiding spot.
That is laying-in-wait.


Yes dear, his actions indicates that he laid-in-wait.
Click to expand...


There is NO place to hide in the alley.

Some of this hinges on whether GZ came into the alley via the northern cut thru or the middle cut thru.

And we still don't know where GZ's truck was parked.. From the 911 call, I think GZ's truck was still at the curve near the clubhouse.. There is no indication that GZ moved his truck or that he made a U turn..

What is certain is that GZ was NOT returning to his truck.

To go with your view.. one would say that the convenience store clerk just shot a customer in cold blood.

When you look at the details.. where was the truck, where did GZ enter the alley, where and when did GZ first follow and observe Trayvon before he called olice at 7:09:34 PM, why were GZ's head wounds so minor.. GZ's narratives (plural) don't add up.

Further.. you have to ask WHY GZ didn't identify himself and WHY Trayvon suddenly punched him?

When YOU attack someone from the rear, are you holding a phone in one hand and carrying on a conversation??

George was so rabid that it never occurred to him how his behaviour would be viewed by the teen he was pursuing.
 
sharon said:
There is NO place to hide in the alley.
Click to expand...
Wrong!


sharon said:
When YOU attack someone from the rear, are you holding a phone in one hand and carrying on a conversation??
Click to expand...
The girlfriend is not a believable witness. The way we come to her account is shady and comes after portions of Zimmerman's account was known. Not to mention that she straight-up lied.


sharon said:
What is certain is that GZ was NOT returning to his truck.
Click to expand...
No dear. That is not certain.
The evidence is that he was.

Trayvon prevented his doing so.


sharon said:
When you look at the details.. where was the truck, where did GZ enter the alley, where and when did GZ first follow and observe Trayvon before he called olice at 7:09:34 PM, why were GZ's head wounds so minor.. GZ's narratives (plural) don't add up.
Click to expand...
Of the evidence we know of so far - Yes it does add up.


sharon said:
Some of this hinges on whether GZ came into the alley via the northern cut thru or the middle cut thru.

And we still don't know where GZ's truck was parked.. From the 911 call, I think GZ's truck was still at the curve near the clubhouse.. There is no indication that GZ moved his truck or that he made a U turn..

...


Further.. you have to ask WHY GZ didn't identify himself and WHY Trayvon suddenly punched him?

George was so rabid that it never occurred to him how his behaviour would be viewed by the teen he was pursuing.
Click to expand...
I guess you keep failing to realize that none of this matters. What matters is what Zimmerman believed in those few moments he was attacked.
Were those beliefs reasonable.

And it is obvious to anybody with warm blood, that not being able to get away because your attacker has you pinned, and getting your head slammed into the ground is enough to reasonably instill fear, of GBH, or imminent loss of life.
 
Excon said:
Wrong!


The girlfriend is not a believable witness. The way we come to her account is shady and comes after portions of Zimmerman's account was known. Not to mention that she straight-up lied.


The girl's account is as reliable as George's account and they have the phone call records.

No dear. That is not certain.
The evidence is that he was.

Trayvon prevented his doing so.



Of the evidence we know of so far - Yes it does add up.


I guess you keep failing to realize that none of this matters. What matters is what Zimmerman believed in those few moments he was attacked.
Were those beliefs reasonable.

And it is obvious to anybody with warm blood, that not being able to get away because your attacker has you pinned, and getting your head slammed into the ground is enough to reasonably instill fear, of GBH, or imminent loss of life.
Click to expand...

George had a gun and he's worked as a bouncer for several years.. .. plus he showed NO reluctance to jump out of his SUV and follow Trayvon on foot.

I think you would understand this case a bit better if you realized that under Florida law, George assaulted Trayvon.. You don't have to put your hands on someone to assault them.. Intimidation or making them fearful is sufficient to qualify as an assault... If George wasn't bent on intimidation, he would have identified himself.
 
sharon said:
George had a gun and he's worked as a bouncer for several years.. .. plus he showed NO reluctance to jump out of his SUV and follow Trayvon on foot.
Click to expand...
Irrelevant!


sharon said:
I think you would understand this case a bit better if you realized that under Florida law, George assaulted Trayvon.. You don't have to put your hands on someone to assault them.. Intimidation or making them fearful is sufficient to qualify as an assault... If George wasn't bent on intimidation, he would have identified himself.
Click to expand...
lol
:doh:lamo:doh:lamo:doh
No dear! Zimmerman did not assault him, that is ridiculous.
Even to suggest such thing.
Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman.

Zimmerman was involved in a noble activity. Protecting his neighborhood.
Following Trayvon so he could point him out to police is is not illegal no matter how much you wish it to be.
 
Excon said:
Irrelevant!


lol
:doh:lamo:doh:lamo:doh
No dear! Zimmerman did not assault him, that is ridiculous.
Even to suggest such thing.
Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman.

Zimmerman was involved in a noble activity. Protecting his neighborhood.
Following Trayvon so he could point him out to police is is not illegal no matter how much you wish it to be.
Click to expand...

A "noble" activity.. He is an irresponsible horse's ass who couldn't follow the rules of NW and shot an unarmed kid walking home from the store.

There are tens of thousands of NW participants all over the US since 1972... They don't take the law into their own hands.. they don't carry guns and they aren't playing at being police officers.
 
sharon said:
A "noble" activity..
Click to expand...
Yes. Protecting one's neighborhood is a noble activity.
Sorry your judgement is so clouded that you can not see that.


sharon said:
He is an irresponsible horse's ass who couldn't follow the rules of NW and shot an unarmed kid walking home from the store.
Click to expand...
lol
:doh:lamo:doh:lamo:doh
Wrong and irrelevant!
He shot a young man who had attacked him from behind and was slamming his head into the ground.


sharon said:
There are tens of thousands of NW participants all over the US since 1972... They don't take the law into their own hands.. they don't carry guns and they aren't playing at being police officers.
Click to expand...
You keep saying this like it means something. It doesn't.
Secondly you do not know this for fact.
So you are just blowing smoke.
Irrelevant.
 
Shooting an innocent person is NOT protecting the neighborhood.

Excon said:
Yes. Protecting one's neighborhood is a noble activity.
Sorry your judgement is so clouded that you can not see that.


lol
:doh:lamo:doh:lamo:doh
Wrong and irrelevant!
He shot a young man who had attacked him from behind and was slamming his head into the ground.


You keep saying this like it means something. It doesn't.
Secondly you do not know this for fact.
So you are just blowing smoke.
Irrelevant.
Click to expand...
 
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