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Those Aren't Zimmerman's Cries on 911 Tape: Experts

Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

danarhea said:
A second forensic expert has also confirmed that it was not Zimmerman screaming for help, as he claims. No comment from me needed here, folks.

Article is here.
Click to expand...

Media reports anything and everything before it is actually confirmed.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

Phoenix said:
"Expert" statement from a guy using his own software that obtains the result the mainstream media will IMMEDIATELY publish so he gets a **** ton of free publicity. 'Ya I'll believe it. who was it mentioned people having vested interests?...
Click to expand...
Umm, I don't think the facts that the guy runs a business doing audio forensics and has proprietary software for conducting such analyses really count against him. ymmv
 
Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

jerry7 said:
Not so. For someone who's never heard Martin's voice, Mr. Primeau has no hesitancy in stating that it positively is Martin screaming. Which sort of makes you wonder.....

"I believe that's Trayvon Martin in the background, without a doubt," Primeau says, stressing that the tone of the voice is a giveaway. "That's a young man screaming."
Click to expand...
It's possible that he decided that if he only had to choose from two candidates, (Z and M), and he could rule out Z, then it had to be M.
You bring up the good point though. The voice could be from some as yet un-named third party who happens to be making those sounds during the call.
 
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Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

Karl said:
Oh my, a veritable stable of strawmen! :shock:

* I have not claimed the Sanford PD is lying (that is reserved for posters that claim the Sanford PD has done something that there is no evidence of them actually having done),
* nor have I made any comment on the state attorney refusing to prosecute the case,
* nor does accusing Zimmerman's attorney of playing fast and loose with the truth in any way form a conspiracy (takes two),
* nor have I claimed that Zimmerman did not go to the hospital (I do recall saying there is no public evidence of it),
* nor have I claimed the "two witnesses" conspired, since as far as I know there is only one ID'ing Martin as being on top.

Hopefully you are analysing the case with more accuracy than that which you apply to my posts (and I work so darn hard on them, too! :( ).
Click to expand...

You're not working hard enough on them. Your analysis of what's happened requires every one of these conspiracies to be true.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

Oh this is rich....Turns out the other guy they quote thinks Elvis is still alive!!! :lamo He even claims that to properly test the biometrics he needs Z to scream for help!

Audio Forensic Expert - Ed Primeau is an Expert in Audio Forensics
Because the family who produced the song was convinced it was Elvis and needed my opinion, I compared the unknown song to known Elvis Presley songs from the same timeframe. My opinion was that the new song is the voice of Elvis. Not everybody agreed with my opinion, however.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

Phoenix said:
Oh this is rich....Turns out the other guy they quote thinks Elvis is still alive!!! :lamo He even claims that to properly test the biometrics he needs Z to scream for help!
Audio Forensic Expert - Ed Primeau is an Expert in Audio Forensics
Click to expand...
I can't find the part where it says or implies that Elvis is still alive.

"
One example is the Elvis Presley voice identification I did. Since Elvis is dead, I could not record an exact exemplar.
"
 
Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

Phoenix said:
Oh this is rich....Turns out the other guy they quote thinks Elvis is still alive!!! :lamo He even claims that to properly test the biometrics he needs Z to scream for help!

Audio Forensic Expert - Ed Primeau is an Expert in Audio Forensics
Click to expand...

From your link:

The scientific community, specifically the American Board of Recorded Evidence, explicitly states that in order for an audio forensic expert to deliver a positive identification, “At least 90% of all comparable words must be very similar aurally and spectrally, producing not less than twenty (20) matching words.
Click to expand...

Sample this guy's analyzing? ONE WORD: HELP. Two, maybe: "HELP ME." But certainly not twenty. And the words need to be comparable. As I thought, in this particular case, the voice analysis is subjective. And barely rises above junk science.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

Simon W. Moon said:
I can't find the part where it says or implies that Elvis is still alive.

"
One example is the Elvis Presley voice identification I did. Since Elvis is dead, I could not record an exact exemplar.
"
Click to expand...
That's fair enough, It was an old recording. Just doing my impersonation of the MSM.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

Simon W. Moon said:
It's possible that he decided that if he only had to choose from two candidates, (Z and M), and he could rule out Z, then it had to be M.
You bring up the good point though. The voice could be from some as yet un-named third party who happens to be making those sounds during the call.
Click to expand...
:doh
Yeah, except you know, that they have an eye-witness.

Come on folks. Get back to reality and the actual evidence.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

MaggieD said:
From your link:
The scientific community, specifically the American Board of Recorded Evidence, explicitly states that in order for an audio forensic expert to deliver a positive identification, “At least 90% of all comparable words must be very similar aurally and spectrally,
Click to expand...
producing not less than twenty (20) matching words.
Click to expand...
Sample this guy's analyzing? ONE WORD: HELP. Two, maybe: "HELP ME." But certainly not twenty. And the words need to be comparable. As I thought, in this particular case, the voice analysis is subjective. And barely rises above junk science.
Click to expand...
but they're not delivering a positive identification.
They're saying that it is NOT someone.
That's different than saying that it IS someone which is what a positive identification seems to mean.

You might have to really look at someone to see if it is a certain person if the people are similar--same hieght, build, sex, colorings. To make a positive ID, you'd want to match a lot of points.

It's an AND thing.
These AND these AND etc AND these must match

But to tell that someone is NOT a certain person can take a lot less information.
It might take only noticing that the two people are different heights.
Or that they're different sexes, or builds, w/e.

It's an OR thing
If these OR these OR these OR these OR these do not match

The point is that it doesn't take as much info to determine that things don't match than it does to determine that they do match.
Or so it seems to me.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

Excon said:
Yeah, except you know, that they have an eye-witness.
Click to expand...
So that blows jerry7's theory out of the water I guess.
The guy didn't have to do anything but rule out one candidate to decide that it was the other if there are only two possible choices and it must be one of them. He didn't have to know anything about Martin's voice.
 
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Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

Simon W. Moon said:
So that blows jerry7's theory out of the water I guess. The guy didn't have to do anything but rule out one candidate to decide that it was the other of there are only two possible choices.
Click to expand...
And it isn't evidence. It isn't an official analysis.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

Excon said:
:doh
Yeah, except you know, that they have an eye-witness.

Come on folks. Get back to reality and the actual evidence.
Click to expand...

Eye witnesses can be coached, confused, caught up in the notoriety and excitment, sympathetic to the accused or any number of things that makes their testimony unreliable. None of those apply to a computer analysis of data. This technology is used instead of fingerprints in terror investigatons and is considered nearly as reliable in ID'ing suspects. I don't think eye witness testimony has nearly that good a track record.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

Excon said:
And it isn't evidence. It isn't an official analysis.
Click to expand...

How do you know what experts would be called if there was a trial? There is no "official" voice print analyzer in the whole state. Experts are always called in to testify and that makes it evidence.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

Moderator's Warning:
Threads merged.
 
The fact that so many people are so interested and invested in the death of one boy is utterly dumb. What about the 1000's of innocent middle eastern women and children that are killed yearly by our intrusive and abusive foreign policy? The US government and soldiers responsible show little to no remorse and suffer no consequences; the dead's families never get justice. Is the story of Travon Martin more important than the killing of the 16 Afghany civilians that occurred around the same time? It is rather sickening that people protest,argue, and even resort to threats of violence for Travon martin, but don't even give the brutal mass killing of Afghany women and children lip service.
 
Phoenix said:
I have a hard time believing anyone can determine it wasn't a person by using a piece of audio in which the person was calm and collected and comparing it to an piece of audio recorded from a long distance away on a telephone and the person is now panicked, frightened, and being attacked.
Click to expand...
Hopefully someone will turn up some info on how that works and what kinds of limits we're looking at.



DeoVindice said:
The fact that so many people are so interested and invested in the death of one boy is utterly dumb. What about the 1000's of innocent middle eastern women and children that are killed yearly by our intrusive and abusive foreign policy? The US government and soldiers responsible show little to no remorse and suffer no consequences; the dead's families never get justice. Is the story of Travon Martin more important than the killing of the 16 Afghany civilians that occurred around the same time? It is rather sickening that people protest,argue, and even resort to threats of violence for Travon martin, but don't even give the brutal mass killing of Afghany women and children lip service.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's just about Martin.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

iguanaman said:
How do you know what experts would be called if there was a trial? There is no "official" voice print analyzer in the whole state. Experts are always called in to testify and that makes it evidence.
Click to expand...
I do not know what part you do not understand about; "And it isn't evidence. It isn't an official analysis."

Because it isn't, it can't be used. It isn't even a reason to look into the matter.
They have an eye-witness. They have no reason to disbelieve that eye-witness.

This isn't a reason to bring any charges.


You are all grasping onto this when it actually means nothing.


But you want to suppose if there was a trial.
If the prosecutor believed it was actually Trayvon screaming then they may as well have an official analysis done. Not this bs.
And it may rule out Zimmerman to a certain percentage.
But if done, their analysis will be weak without any actual analysis of Trayvon's screams.

To counter the Govs. presentation the defense then will proffer their own showing that it was Zimmerman from an analysis of his own screams.
Further corroborating the evidence that is already known, that it was Zimmerman.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

Phoenix said:
"Expert" statement from a guy using his own software that obtains the result the mainstream media will IMMEDIATELY publish so he gets a **** ton of free publicity. 'Ya I'll believe it. who was it mentioned people having vested interests?...

Registrant:
Owen Forensic Services, LLC

PO Box 189
Colonia, New Jersey 07067
United States

Registered through: JasonHunter Design
Domain Name: EASYVOICEBIOMETRICS.COM
Created on: 08-May-11
Expires on: 08-May-13
Last Updated on: 16-Feb-12

Administrative Contact:
Owen, Thomas owlinvestigations@comcast.net
Owen Forensic Services, LLC
PO Box 189
Colonia, New Jersey 07067
United States
(732) 574-9672

Technical Contact:
Owen, Thomas owlinvestigations@comcast.net
Owen Forensic Services, LLC
PO Box 189
Colonia, New Jersey 07067
United States
(732) 574-9672
Click to expand...

And it somehow matters rhat he found the results to be negative? I fail to see how he gets more publicity becaue it wasn't Z on that tape.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

danarhea said:
A second forensic expert has also confirmed that it was not Zimmerman screaming for help, as he claims. No comment from me needed here, folks.

Article is here.
Click to expand...

If it later proven he is not right OR even that it can't be confirmed that he is, he should be banned from ever being allowed as a witnesses in ANY criminal or civil case again and if he holds any certifications they should be revoked. In additional, Zimmerman would have an excellent lawsuit.

It is VERY rare that a potential expert witness talks to the media before a trial is concluded.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

joko104 said:
If it later proven he is not right OR even that it can't be confirmed that he is, he should be banned from ever being allowed as a witnesses in ANY criminal or civil case again and if he holds any certifications they should be revoked. In additional, Zimmerman would have an excellent lawsuit.
Click to expand...

So much for free speech...

It is VERY rare that a potential expert witness talks to the media before a trial is concluded.
Click to expand...

Guess you dont watch Nancy Grace and all those wanna be legal shows ... even we get bits a pieces over here and there are experts on those shows constantly..
 
Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

Karl said:
Yes, yes -- conspiracy theory! Holy cow, I think you're on to something!!! :lamo


Indeed... just keep drinking the state Kool Aid, comrade :2razz:
Click to expand...

Seems to me you're the one that thinks there's a conspiracy. Let me see you laugh.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

MaggieD said:
Oh, for heaven's sake. Save it, Karl. Who in the world are you to scoff at conspiracy theories???

According to your take, two Sanford law enforcement officers conspired to lie about Zimmerman's injuries...first that he had any and then further that they were treated at the scene...THEN the D.A. conspired not to even try to charge Zimmerman when, you believe, he had plenty of evidence to do so...THEN Zimmerman's attorney conspired by lying about Zimmerman going to the hospital...then...then...then.

You are a fine one to scoff at someone and call their thought process a conspiracy theory.

Forgot one: That the two witnesses who testified to police that they saw Martin on top of Zimmerman conspired in that they were lying.
Click to expand...

I think we have a winner.
 
Re: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recordi

Phoenix said:
"Expert" statement from a guy using his own software that obtains the result the mainstream media will IMMEDIATELY publish so he gets a **** ton of free publicity. 'Ya I'll believe it. who was it mentioned people having vested interests?...

Registrant:
Owen Forensic Services, LLC

PO Box 189
Colonia, New Jersey 07067
United States

Registered through: JasonHunter Design
Domain Name: EASYVOICEBIOMETRICS.COM
Created on: 08-May-11
Expires on: 08-May-13
Last Updated on: 16-Feb-12

Administrative Contact:
Owen, Thomas owlinvestigations@comcast.net
Owen Forensic Services, LLC
PO Box 189
Colonia, New Jersey 07067
United States
(732) 574-9672

Technical Contact:
Owen, Thomas owlinvestigations@comcast.net
Owen Forensic Services, LLC
PO Box 189
Colonia, New Jersey 07067
United States
(732) 574-9672
Click to expand...

Wow.... Surely a local news organization didn't have to contract a company that has been in business less than one year that is located on the opposite end of the east coast in order to seek this out.........
 
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