Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

ric27 said:

Before, I get into that

Lets look at lying for a moment, shall we?

It is a crime to lie?

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Obviously that depends on the circumstances.

It's a crime to lie under oath. It's a crime to commit fraud.

OscarB63 said:

Zimmerman had every right to follow an unknown person in his gated community

Martin had every right to confront a guy he did not know who was following him

Where this story goes wrong is when Martin continues to beat Zimmerman after he had broken his nose and knocked him to the ground. That alone gives Zimmerman the right to defend himself

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I don't think Martin had the right to assault Zimmerman, Martin(according to Zimmerman) is the one who
escalated this to a physical confrontation.

Peter Ilyich said:

It has to be just words though.

I had to state the obvious but Martin's girlfriend wasn't actually there. She can't give any visual evidence of what took place.

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No she can't. She can only relate what she heard.

But she relates a different conversation and a "re-appearance" of Zimmerman that he does not.

Apparently, Martin's facebook page paints a very unflattering picture of this troubled kid, and his multiple school incidents of violence are being sealed by the parents and school.

Seems more and more like the Rodney King case, where King was loaded on PCP, but made to seem like just a victim by the media.

ric27 said:

Before, I get into that

Lets look at lying for a moment, shall we?

It is a crime to lie?

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It is a crime to commit perjury. And if either Zimmerman or the GF tell thier side of the story in a court room and it is found that they lied they can be charged with it.

Erod said:

Apparently, Martin's facebook page paints a very unflattering picture of this troubled kid, and his multiple school incidents of violence are being sealed by the parents and school.

Seems more and more like the Rodney King case, where King was loaded on PCP, but made to seem like just a victim by the media.

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your bias is made clear by your signature.

Thunder said:

your bias is made clear by your signature.

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No, it's merely an observation of the known facts, which are limited at this point. I'm one of the few taking a step back and waiting for the facts to come out.

Obama didn't wait. Nor did Jackson, Sharpton, Farrakhan, or 90 percent of this message board.

MaggieD said:

Well, actually, I'm a bit ambivalent about that myself. I started to post that, "In and of itself, I don't think it's racist," but then I got to thinking about the people I know who would use that word, and they are indeed racist. So I changed it.

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What if there was coon going thru trash or even just a trash mess maybe caused by a "coon?" They're all over these parts. They're on our porch pretty much every night mainly going after the cat and dog food. Make quite a mess. I've said "GD coons!" and "f....g coons!" more times than I could remember. In fact, I guess I could be a witness being in the same coon-range.
Since the burden is on the state, they can't just tell a jury to decide if he said "f.... g coons" and then just assert that was a racist slur. And not only does the government have to prove that IS a racial slur, the defense has a right to prove that it isn't necessarily so.

If there is a trial - IF Zimmerman had a decent lawyer and even 5% for defense the government will spend, would last virtually forever. The prosecution would put on auditory experts and pay the f... oons tape 50 times.
BUT, then the defense could call, one after another, 20 people from the neighborhood saying they saw racoons, then every animal control officer to work in that region for the last decade, linguists to say many if not most people in the area call racoons "coons," still more people around the neighborhood about coons, every police officer in the city and Sheriff's department to ask if they ever saw racoons in the city... 125 witnesses on whether or not "f...ing coons" could have meant there was a trash mess that looked like it was made by a racoon. Asking every prosecution witness "you ever see racoons? When? Where? How many? Tell us about each time you can remember? Do you like racoons?"

And then the next 3 weeks on the next irrelevancy as the government trying to install hatred in the jury about Zimmerman as their REAL case.

To make a case out of this, the prosecution will have to throw everything including the kitchen sink at Zimmerman to instill so much hatred in the juror that they convict for hating the guy. The Defense should throw 10 times as much back. Months and months of irrelevancies and "maybes" - all that work for the defense.

As the Defense, I would subpoena to trial exactly every man, woman and child who does or ever did live in that entire complex - one at a time - IF the prosecution called even ONE witness to say anything negative about Zimmerman who was not a witness. Stretch the trial out as many months or even years as possible. Minimally, if the judge cut off calling too many witnesses to challenge factually ANYTHING the government presented, I have an appeal. Besides, along the way a juror and one of the standbys might get sick or die - and then it has to start over.

In fact, Zimmerman would be given a truly crap lawyer picked by the government and whose main task would be to convey plea-bargains as Zimmerman either was going insane and desperate in "protective solitary" or in constant terror in general population while awaiting the political prisoner's trial.

Erod said:

No, it's merely an observation of the known facts, which are limited at this point. I'm one of the few taking a step back and waiting for the facts to come out.

Obama didn't wait. Nor did Jackson, Sharpton, Farrakhan, or 90 percent of this message board.

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and yet you talk about Martin having supposed drug & violence problems, with NO evidence.

how grand of you.

Thunder said:

your bias is made clear by your signature.

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Besides what Erod says...his signature has nothing to do with Zimmerman and Trayvon.....why'd you bring it up? Are you really playing the race card?

joko104 said:

What if there coons going thru trash? They're all over these parts. They're on our porch pretty much every night mainly going after the cat and dog food. Make quite a mess....

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oh, so Zimmy was talking about mammals going through his trash, and not Martin?

keep reaching, friend.

Kal'Stang said:

Besides what Erod says...his signature has nothing to do with Zimmerman and Trayvon.....why'd you bring it up? Are you really playing the race card?

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no, his post....is playing the race card.

Thunder said:

no, his post....is playing the race card.

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A Hispanic dude shot a black dude. I'm a white dude. Where's the race card in this?

I'm just tired of this "skittles and tea" portrait of Martin we're having shoved down our throat. If Zimmerman was that much of a cold-hearted killer, why no record of this behavior prior from him? And Martin's past is looking more questionable as information trickles out.

Maybe Zimmerman's family should start taking donations for a defense fund. I'd bet plenty of people would donate to help him have decent representation after the way the media has vilified him.

Thunder said:

no, his post....is playing the race card.

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1: How?

2: and yet you specifically refer to his signature...somehow I am not convinced....

Paratrooper said:

Maybe Zimmerman's family should start taking donations for a defense fund. I'd bet plenty of people would donate to help him have decent representation after the way the media has vilified him.

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If he is prosecuted under the Civil Rights Act, I'd donate in a heartbeat. As for state charges....well, I think one shouldn't be surprised to be held accountable for killing another person -- even if it is self-defense. It's one of the responsibilities of gun ownership, in my opinion. "What's going to happen to me if I have to use it?"

Kal'Stang said:

It is a crime to commit perjury. And if either Zimmerman or the GF tell thier side of the story in a court room and it is found that they lied they can be charged with it.

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What the girlfriend "knows" is mostly hearsay and not direct knowledge at all. She says that Martin said stuff, nor an eye witnesses. What she can testify to, though, is she told Martin he should run and he said he wouldn't. So that ends the claim of the child's fear-flight and being chased down by fat Zimmerman, the Jewish named Latino Ninja racist.

Paratrooper said:

Maybe Zimmerman's family should start taking donations for a defense fund. I'd bet plenty of people would donate to help him have decent representation after the way the media has vilified him.

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They really should.

Thunder said:

and yet you talk about Martin having supposed drug & violence problems, with NO evidence.

how grand of you.

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Martin was suspended from school for drug possession .... That's a proven fact. Getting kicked out of school for drugs is.....wait for it...... A drug problem

Paratrooper said:

Maybe Zimmerman's family should start taking donations for a defense fund. I'd bet plenty of people would donate to help him have decent representation after the way the media has vilified him.

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No doubt. But I don't think it would matter. It is obvious from some posters here that some people just won't listen to facts. Ex: Thunder post number 1962 despite my post 1947 showing that Zimmerman never said the word "coon" as such no mammals were involved...human or otherwise.

Kal'Stang said:

1: How?

2: and yet you specifically refer to his signature...somehow I am not convinced....

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Democrat representative Bobby Rush addressed Congress today in a hoodie. The facts have not surfaced yet in the case.

Now who are the racists jumping to conclusions again?

What if...? said:

I
Not really sure what you're getting at here...

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I'm getting at...the knowingly and willfully part of making any materially false, fictitious or fraudulent statements

Peter Ilyich said:

Obviously that depends on the circumstances.

It's a crime to lie under oath. It's a crime to commit fraud.

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Prosecutors don't prosecute their witnesses who lie. They do prosecute defense witnesses who do. The girlfriend can lie all she wants to.

It would be almost bizarre if the defense allowed Zimmerman on the stand. He already told his side on 911 and police interviews and that would get into evidence. He would need tell it again to risk contradiction. Besides, as noted by some, "he looking like a White Supremacist."

OH, and if the defense did not INSIST that he be called George with the Spanish pronunciation (Whore-Hey') that defense attorney should be disbarred. I think the defense should insist on a Spanish interpreter, stating Zimmerman knows English, but being raised by a Peruvian mother he may not interpret words heard at a trial accurately or as fast as witnesses speak. If the court denied it, the defense should ask 100,000 question of prosecution witnesses to explain exactly, precisely what this and that word meant to make sure everyone including Zimmerman really understands.

And, since it would be a political case, the attorney should be a furious Latino attorney who every day after the court ended for the day give a fierce statement to the press declaring this is all because of Obama and Democrats acting like racists against Latinos. Ideally, organizing Latino protests in Miami about the president and Democrats crucifying a Latino because he didn't let Obama's-look-alike son murder Zimmerman. Run that through the election. For justice sake, do everything possible to make Obama and Democrats pay for using his/her client as their political prisoner stepping stone political tool with the African-American community.

Erod said:

A Hispanic dude shot a black dude. I'm a white dude. Where's the race card in this?

I'm just tired of this "skittles and tea" portrait of Martin we're having shoved down our throat. If Zimmerman was that much of a cold-hearted killer, why no record of this behavior prior from him? And Martin's past is looking more questionable as information trickles out.

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The past of both of these two is completely irrelevant. Skittles and tea are irrelevant.

The only thing that is relevant is the altercation that took place. Who started the PHYSICAL violence between them? Was Trayvon stopping his assault and leaving and then shot or was he shot during the fight? Was Trayvon going for Zimmermans gun?

I am sick of hearing about black and white. I am sick of hearing about maybe Trayvon smoked weed. It doesnt matter. Not one bit. Everyone wants to focus on the things that are not relevant to the case. Trayvon may have been the nicest kid in the world. But if he attacked Zimmerman and got shot then he had it coming. If he was relentlessly beating Zimmermans head into the ground and went after Zimmermans gun, then Zimmerman had every right to shoot Martin. Just because Martin is black doesnt mean he can go around beating on people who's actions he doesnt agree with (in this case Zimmerman following him)