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California’s Newsom signs bill allowing citizens to refuse to help a police officer

chuckiechan

chuckiechan

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California’s Newsom signs bill allowing citizens to refuse to help a police officer | Fox News

The Sacramento Bee reported that the old law, the California Posse Comitatus Act of 1872, was common in the country’s early days, but Sen. Bob Hertzberg, a Los Angeles Democrat who sponsored the bill, called the old law a “vestige of a bygone era." The law was employed to help catch runaway slaves, the report said.
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Besides suing the Trump Admin, things like this are about all that comes out of the legislature now a days.

Either way, if a cop needs help and you can provide it, you should help. Even if it is a run away slave, LOL.
 
Perhaps, they should have replaced it with you have to give the homeless drugs, money and a room in your home law instead. ;)
 
As said police officer has no duty to protect you, why should you assist the officer when he does not have to help you?
 
That's pretty stupid.
I mean, without having taken a detailed look at the former law, I cannot dissect it but merely "encouraging" citizens to help an officer in need isn't enough. The law should require able bodied persons to assist if possible. The only issue that concerns me is that some people may be afraid to assist for one or several reasons, perhaps (A) fear of future litigation, (B) fear of one's immigration status (even legal residency) being revealed, (C) fear of personal danger at the scene of the arrest, or even (D) irrational fear of police officers in general.

Yes, of course that last one is fixable, and I daresay even A and B could be helped to some degree.
The C option is in my humble opinion, entirely reasonable.
Not everyone is equally brave.
It's not that everyone else is chickenhearted.
Some just freeze up, or overreact.
Some accidentally do the very worst thing possible not realizing it, they're just klutzes who somehow make things worse without even intending to.

But still, some kind of law should be on the books that tenders basic societal responsibilities to help police officers who are in danger.
 
Felis Leo said:
Californian police were still helping to catch runaway slaves in 1872? :thinking
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Not that specific law, but
t has a history of being invoked in different forms throughout America’s early history, including through the 1850 Fugitive Slave Act, which empowered federal marshals to form posses to hunt and re-capture escaped slaves, according to Washington Post columnist and historian Dave Kopel .
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chuckiechan said:
California’s Newsom signs bill allowing citizens to refuse to help a police officer | Fox News



Besides suing the Trump Admin, things like this are about all that comes out of the legislature now a days.

Either way, if a cop needs help and you can provide it, you should help. Even if it is a run away slave, LOL.
Click to expand...

Perhaps California failed to get the memo that slavery was outlawed by the 13th amendment back in 1865. Then again perhaps California just found out about the 13th today. Just a wee bit behind the times.
 
chuckiechan said:
California’s Newsom signs bill allowing citizens to refuse to help a police officer | Fox News



Besides suing the Trump Admin, things like this are about all that comes out of the legislature now a days.

Either way, if a cop needs help and you can provide it, you should help. Even if it is a run away slave, LOL.
Click to expand...

You do know that they aren't even required to put themselves at risk to help us, right? And they get paid to do it.

If they weren't dicks so much i might feel differently.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
That's pretty stupid.
I mean, without having taken a detailed look at the former law, I cannot dissect it but merely "encouraging" citizens to help an officer in need isn't enough. The law should require able bodied persons to assist if possible. The only issue that concerns me is that some people may be afraid to assist for one or several reasons, perhaps (A) fear of future litigation, (B) fear of one's immigration status (even legal residency) being revealed, (C) fear of personal danger at the scene of the arrest, or even (D) irrational fear of police officers in general.

Yes, of course that last one is fixable, and I daresay even A and B could be helped to some degree.
The C option is in my humble opinion, entirely reasonable.
Not everyone is equally brave.
It's not that everyone else is chickenhearted.
Some just freeze up, or overreact.
Some accidentally do the very worst thing possible not realizing it, they're just klutzes who somehow make things worse without even intending to.

But still, some kind of law should be on the books that tenders basic societal responsibilities to help police officers who are in danger.
Click to expand...

I have had too many experiences where cops behaved in a manner so unacceptable that had they become endangered afterwards I would not have felt obliged to help.

It's cold, but it's true. I might have even done it because I'm the type who doesn't like to play video game villains and I tend to be front and center in a crisis.

But I would be pissed if I was legally required to do so. Especially when he is not.
 
What if...? said:
I have had too many experiences where cops behaved in a manner so unacceptable that had they become endangered afterwards I would not have felt obliged to help.

It's cold, but it's true. I might have even done it because I'm the type who doesn't like to play video game villains and I tend to be front and center in a crisis.

But I would be pissed if I was legally required to do so. Especially when he is not.
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I dunno, I've been treated badly by police before, believe me.
Still doesn't change the fact that I have also been treated very well by them at other times, too.

And the notion that it should be incumbent upon citizens in a society to assist law enforcement officers in a matter of grave danger is just one of those things we have to be willing to do, just as we should be willing to extend affordable healthcare even to those who can't afford it at all.

To be both liberal AND Jewish about it (it's okay, my FATHER was Jewish!) helping out a cop that's in trouble is a MITZVAH.
Liberals, even non-Jews (again, it's okay - nobody's perfect) should be all about society doing mitzvahs.
That is the kind of society America should be, the kind that encourages people to do mitzvahs great and small for each other.

And it's not just the helping of these cops that's the mitzvah, it's the law itself.
A law like that IS the mitzvah.
 
chuckiechan said:
California’s Newsom signs bill allowing citizens to refuse to help a police officer | Fox News



Besides suing the Trump Admin, things like this are about all that comes out of the legislature now a days.

Either way, if a cop needs help and you can provide it, you should help. Even if it is a run away slave, LOL.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good bill to me!!

Now with that said, me personally, i would gladly help a police officer in many cases and actually have before BUT i would never support a law "requiring" me too, **** that.
Now it seems it was just a misdemeanor that carried a fine of up to $1,000 but still, i dont support "REQUIRING" it.

I dont think this law exists in PA(or isnt enforced), having officers and troopers in my family and circle of friend i never hear of it
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
That's pretty stupid.
I mean, without having taken a detailed look at the former law, I cannot dissect it but merely "encouraging" citizens to help an officer in need isn't enough. The law should require able bodied persons to assist if possible. The only issue that concerns me is that some people may be afraid to assist for one or several reasons, perhaps (A) fear of future litigation, (B) fear of one's immigration status (even legal residency) being revealed, (C) fear of personal danger at the scene of the arrest, or even (D) irrational fear of police officers in general.

Yes, of course that last one is fixable, and I daresay even A and B could be helped to some degree.
The C option is in my humble opinion, entirely reasonable.
Not everyone is equally brave.
It's not that everyone else is chickenhearted.
Some just freeze up, or overreact.
Some accidentally do the very worst thing possible not realizing it, they're just klutzes who somehow make things worse without even intending to.

But still, some kind of law should be on the books that tenders basic societal responsibilities to help police officers who are in danger.
Click to expand...

Helping a police.officer.could make it.worse, especially if you don't have the proper training.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
I dunno, I've been treated badly by police before, believe me.
Still doesn't change the fact that I have also been treated very well by them at other times, too.

And the notion that it should be incumbent upon citizens in a society to assist law enforcement officers in a matter of grave danger is just one of those things we have to be willing to do, just as we should be willing to extend affordable healthcare even to those who can't afford it at all.

To be both liberal AND Jewish about it (it's okay, my FATHER was Jewish!) helping out a cop that's in trouble is a MITZVAH.
Liberals, even non-Jews (again, it's okay - nobody's perfect) should be all about society doing mitzvahs.
That is the kind of society America should be, the kind that encourages people to do mitzvahs great and small for each other.

And it's not just the helping of these cops that's the mitzvah, it's the law itself.
A law like that IS the mitzvah.
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I agree with your reasoning and your belief that citizens ought to help police officers in trouble, but what should the penalty be for a citizen who witnesses a police officer in distress and it too terrified to intercede?

This is one of those things that I feel should be handled with social and cultural pressure, but not legislated. When we mandate honorable behavior under threat of legal penalty, is it still honorable behavior?
 
lwf said:
I agree with your reasoning and your belief that citizens ought to help police officers in trouble, but what should the penalty be for a citizen who witnesses a police officer in distress and it too terrified to intercede?

This is one of those things that I feel should be handled with social and cultural pressure, but not legislated. When we mandate honorable behavior under threat of legal penalty, is it still honorable behavior?
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Oh there definitely needs to be proper escape clauses that hold persons harmless for such situations.
 
chuckiechan said:
California’s Newsom signs bill allowing citizens to refuse to help a police officer | Fox News



Besides suing the Trump Admin, things like this are about all that comes out of the legislature now a days.

Either way, if a cop needs help and you can provide it, you should help. Even if it is a run away slave, LOL.
Click to expand...

Again Fox twists the truth to piss you off, and it worked to melt down your brain again, creating more hatred in your for democrats. Here's what the law Newsom signed today actually IS.

The law dates back nearly 150 years to California's Wild West days, when cowboys and outlaws roamed the state. The California Posse Comitatus Act of 1872 made it a misdemeanor for "an able-bodied person 18 years of age or older" to refuse a request for assistance from a police officer "in making an arrest, retaking into custody a person who has escaped from arrest or imprisonment, or preventing a breach of the peace or the commission of any criminal offense."

It was used by authorities in 1872 to legally form posses to hunt outlaws and runaway slaves. It's an outdated law, useless in 2019 and should have been repealed 70 years go. If a situation arises today where a policeman needs the assistance of a private citizen, that person can run away and refuse to aide the police officer without penalty. Most people of course would help if faced with a situation that wouldn't endanger their own life. But if they have fear of losing their own life and don't give assistance at least they won't be held accountable under a 150 year old law.
 
HumblePi said:
It was used by authorities in 1872 to legally form posses to hunt outlaws and runaway slaves. It's an outdated law, useless in 2019 and should have been repealed 70 years go.
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So you claim slavery ended 70 years ago? How truly STUPID can a message be? :roll:

This may be really extra hard to do, but try looking up when slavery ended in the USA. I'll give you a hint: Search "when did American Civil War end" on Google. Then read about the Civil War to see what it was about. Report back to us what you find out. :thumbs:

PS. Especially tell AProudLefty what you found out. :lol:
 
joko104 said:
So you claim slavery ended 70 years ago? How truly STUPID can a message be? :roll:

This may be really extra hard to do, but try looking up when slavery ended in the USA. I'll give you a hint: Search "when did American Civil War end" on Google. Then read about the Civil War to see what it was about. Report back to us what you find out. :thumbs:

PS. Especially tell AProudLefty what you found out. :lol:
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I happen to be a student of Civil War history and I know when the Civil War began and ended. This law was made in 1872 but prior to the enacting the California Posse Comitatus Act, the 'law' was posses, not 'policemen'. The posse also caught and returned runaway slaves in addition to criminals of all sorts. The Fugitive Slave Act of 1852 gave slave owners the right to reclaim their slaves. There was a bounty for slaves returned to their slave owners. It doesn't mean that they rounded up runaway slaves after 1872. But essentially yes, that was one of the duties of a posse before the law went into effect.

I can give classes on what I know about the American Civil War, you're free to test me anytime joko.
 
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joko104 said:
So you claim slavery ended 70 years ago? How truly STUPID can a message be? :roll:

This may be really extra hard to do, but try looking up when slavery ended in the USA. I'll give you a hint: Search "when did American Civil War end" on Google. Then read about the Civil War to see what it was about. Report back to us what you find out. :thumbs:

PS. Especially tell AProudLefty what you found out. :lol:
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How does tbe crow taste?
 
All I can say about Newsom is Arnie is starting to look good again.:(
 
chuckiechan said:
California’s Newsom signs bill allowing citizens to refuse to help a police officer | Fox News

Besides suing the Trump Admin, things like this are about all that comes out of the legislature now a days.

Either way, if a cop needs help and you can provide it, you should help. Even if it is a run away slave, LOL.
Click to expand...


The opposite of this law is saying you are obligated to turn in your neighbors for any crime or be subject to a crime yourself.

The Italian, Spanish, German fascists' as well as most Authoritarian regimes required this of citizens.

"I saw Bob my next-door neighbor tear the DO NOT REMOVE tag under penalty of law from his mattress"
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
I dunno, I've been treated badly by police before, believe me.
Still doesn't change the fact that I have also been treated very well by them at other times, too.

And the notion that it should be incumbent upon citizens in a society to assist law enforcement officers in a matter of grave danger is just one of those things we have to be willing to do, just as we should be willing to extend affordable healthcare even to those who can't afford it at all.

To be both liberal AND Jewish about it (it's okay, my FATHER was Jewish!) helping out a cop that's in trouble is a MITZVAH.
Liberals, even non-Jews (again, it's okay - nobody's perfect) should be all about society doing mitzvahs.
That is the kind of society America should be, the kind that encourages people to do mitzvahs great and small for each other.

And it's not just the helping of these cops that's the mitzvah, it's the law itself.
A law like that IS the mitzvah.
Click to expand...

I will say that the best cop video I ever saw was a cop being an absolute dick to a black guy. Right up to the point when he was clipped by a passing car.

The guy who had been at the receiving end of his abuse covered him with a blanket, called on the radio and directed traffic around him until help arrived.

I would probably do the same.

Unfortunately making it mandatory might just end up with the cops expecting me to put myself in harms way instead of the cops. And arresting me if I don't. Pressing me into labor without pay. That kind of thing.

Under penalty of the law.

Some things should be left to human discretion and not be codified into law.
 
Perotista said:
Perhaps California failed to get the memo that slavery was outlawed by the 13th amendment back in 1865. Then again perhaps California just found out about the 13th today. Just a wee bit behind the times.
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And perhaps Kentucky just found out recently that humans having sex with livestock is despicable.
Didn't they finally just make bestiality illegal a year ago?
 
What if...? said:
I will say that the best cop video I ever saw was a cop being an absolute dick to a black guy. Right up to the point when he was clipped by a passing car.

The guy who had been at the receiving end of his abuse covered him with a blanket, called on the radio and directed traffic around him until help arrived.

I would probably do the same.

Unfortunately making it mandatory might just end up with the cops expecting me to put myself in harms way instead of the cops. And arresting me if I don't. Pressing me into labor without pay. That kind of thing.

Under penalty of the law.

Some things should be left to human discretion and not be codified into law.
Click to expand...

If we were still the kind of society that believed in cohesiveness and unity of purpose, sure.
But I do "get" the point you are making...it is not a good idea to litigate a person's refusal to help a downed officer when we can accomplish much more by simply reforming the community relationship between police and civilians and healing some of the damage.

Then laws like that wouldn't even be necessary because an overwhelming majority of people would simply do what they can to help on an instinctive level instead.
 
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