Baffled Experts Say Trump Is Completely Clueless On California Fire Policies

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jimdalrympleii/baffled-experts-trump-clueless-california-fires

Trump called on California to stop "diverting" water to the ocean. But experts say that has nothing to do with fighting fires.

As wildfires continue to burn hundreds of thousands of acres across California, President Donald Trump has decided to weigh in, seemingly blaming the state's water policies for the disaster, in tweets that have perplexed experts who say those policies have nothing to do with the fires.

Trump first tweeted about the fires Sunday — the same day he declared a "major disaster" for a devastating blaze — claiming that the crisis has been "magnified and made so much worse by the bad environmental laws which aren't allowing massive amounts of readily available water to be properly utilized."
===================================
Trump seems to be obsessed with environmental regulations which he sees as connected to Obama & are therefore BAD for everything.

JacksinPA said:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jimdalrympleii/baffled-experts-trump-clueless-california-fires

Trump called on California to stop "diverting" water to the ocean. But experts say that has nothing to do with fighting fires.

As wildfires continue to burn hundreds of thousands of acres across California, President Donald Trump has decided to weigh in, seemingly blaming the state's water policies for the disaster, in tweets that have perplexed experts who say those policies have nothing to do with the fires.

Trump first tweeted about the fires Sunday — the same day he declared a "major disaster" for a devastating blaze — claiming that the crisis has been "magnified and made so much worse by the bad environmental laws which aren't allowing massive amounts of readily available water to be properly utilized."
===================================
Trump seems to be obsessed with environmental regulations which he sees as connected to Obama & are therefore BAD for everything.

Click to expand...

As opposed to the State which says basically "This is all global warming's fault, dont look at us!" when The Better People know that California's long running very poor fire risk management carries a huge portion of the blame. Their water policy sucks too. Sure Trump is wrong, but that is not as important as is that the geniuses who have been managing the situation being wrong.

Without the specifics of what president Trump knows and said in full context, this is just another bad, childish hate thread.

Appears to me he thinks the fires could be lessened with better water management. What if he is right?

Of coarse he's not right. He knows nothing about California, other than it is sort of his nemesis and he hates it. Better water management is ridiculous. There is very little water and never has been. What little rivers there are, Northern Cal is not fond of continuing to divert south. More and more people are living in areas which are dry tender boxes.

Most people I know (and I know quite a few who are and were firefighters) would like to see more aggressive policies toward putting out fires, rather than "managing" them, until more forest and wild land is burned.

The overall stupidity of this pompous fat-ass continues to amaze.

Rogue Valley said:

The overall stupidity of this pompous fat-ass continues to amaze.

Click to expand...

The heartless bastard hasn't said word one about the 1100 homes lost or those who have lost their lives.

Not even an encouraging word for the brave fire fighters. He's too ****ing busy playing golf.

Top Cat said:

The heartless bastard hasn't said word one about the 1100 homes lost or those who have lost their lives.

Not even an encouraging word for the brave fire fighters. He's too ****ing busy playing golf.

Click to expand...

So now we need to cry over California every year as it burns in large part because of long term poor fire risk management by the state?

When very few people in California seem to be much interested in the state doing better work?

When the states position is "Dont look at us, this is Global Warming fault"?

MAYBE NOT

Top Cat said:

The heartless bastard hasn't said word one about the 1100 homes lost or those who have lost their lives.

Not even an encouraging word for the brave fire fighters. He's too ****ing busy playing golf.

Click to expand...

He would probably echo my viewpoints.

WTF are they doing, building in known fire hazard areas, then expecting others to subsidize their stupidity?

Yep.

The better move is not to comment.

Lord of Planar said:

He would probably echo my viewpoints.

WTF are they doing, building in known fire hazard areas, then expecting others to subsidize their stupidity?

Yep.

The better move is not to comment.

Click to expand...

I might agree with you, but you could say WTFabout people who live in tornado alley, in earthquake prone San Francisco, in flood prone Louisiana and Florida, etc.

Here is some of the back story as I assume it is from my observation, but others who know it better or differently might contribute: there is a conflict about agricultural water in California. Starting in the late 70s or 80s the "west side" of the huge San Juaquin Valley began to be developed with among other crops, vines and fruit trees -- which require water year round. Growers I worked with in the middle of the Valley near Fresno in early 70s told me the westside would be the next big thing. In recent years, there has been a conflict one could learn of by driving down I-5 and noting all the signs that attacked Pelosi, Feinstein, and other northern Cal. politicians for creating a drought, i.,e., not sending enough water south. If one traveled along the Sacramento River delta east of San Francisco however, one saw signs attacking politicians like Gov. Brown for *sending* water south, away from the smaller farms in that area.

Trump visited the larger, wealthier (surprise!) farms near I-5 during the campaign and said something like "there is no drought," which made people laugh at or get furious with him. Strangely, there was increased rain after his visit, so he may have some pull with the almighty. My theory is that Donald's recent comments might echo his experience and what he picked up from one side of the debate back then.

But your criticism of folks who live in fire areas could also be directed at the west side growers, who planted trees on drought-prone land. And, of course, they want us to "subsidize their stupidity."

The larger observation is that all of us, smart or stupid, get some subsidy from the government, but we are shy about admitting it.

Finally, there is a reason the water is "diverted to the ocean," as Trump put it in his ignorance. Salmon. They need water to swim up stream, and commercial fishermen may also be part of the argument as well.

Naturally, we in the north of California tend also to blame LA people who live in a city that shouldn't be there in anything approaching its size, given its lack of water which they greedily suck away from us. See the movie "Chinatown" for some history.

This is not really a partisan issue, as the fighting growers in both areas are probably mainly republican, while the rest of the fighting populace are probably mostly democrat. But Trump dislikes California apparently.

Nickyjo said:

I might agree with you, but you could say WTFabout people who live in tornado alley, in earthquake prone San Francisco, in flood prone Louisiana and Florida, etc.

Click to expand...

And this is why most these regions have reasonable standards. Know your risk, and pay market price for your risk based on what injurers will bargain for. cant afford insurance, don't ask my tax dollars to help. Move someplace your insurance is affordable.

Nickyjo said:

Here is some of the back story as I assume it is from my observation, but others who know it better or differently might contribute: there is a conflict about agricultural water in California. Starting in the late 70s or 80s the "west side" of the huge San Juaquin Valley began to be developed with among other crops, vines and fruit trees -- which require water year round. Growers I worked with in the middle of the Valley near Fresno told me the westside would be the next big thing. In recent years, there has been a conflict one could learn of by driving down I-5 and noting all the signs that attacked Pelosi, Feinstein, and other northern Cal. politicians for creating a drought. If one traveled along the Sacramento River delta east of San Francisco however, one saw signs attacking politicians like Gov. Brown for sending water south, away from the smaller farms in that area.

Click to expand...

Such problems will only get worse. One argument to consider might be to take a time when we didn't have water issues, and grant those properties the natural rights to so many acre feet of water. Growth after that is taxed to build and maintain water desalination plants, pumping stations, etc. Those grandfathered in don't pay these fees. Only new development and residence after a certain past time-frame.

Nickyjo said:

Trump visited the larger, wealthier (surprise!) farms near I-5 during the campaign and said something like "there is no drought," which made people laugh at or get furious with him. Strangely, there was increased rain after his visit, so he may have some pull with the almighty. My theory is that Donald's recent comments might echo his experience and what he picked up from one side of the debate back then.

Click to expand...

Thing about the recent California Droughts, is they really weren't that abnormal in what Nature did. We simply had more people using a water that has a natural cyclical rate.

Nickyjo said:

But your criticism of folks who live in fire areas could also be directed at the west side growers, who planted trees on drought-prone land. And, of course, they want us to "subsidize their stupidity."

Click to expand...

I am equally critical.

Nickyjo said:

The larger observation is that all of us, smart of stupid, get some subsidy from the government, but we are shy about admitting it.

Click to expand...

I expect certain services and safety nets. At times, more is understandable, but we now have it as an accepted way of life, and that is wrong. People should have the morality and dignity to try to make things better for themselves, and stop relying on others.

Nickyjo said:

Finally, there is a reason the water is "diverted to the ocean," as Trump put it in his ignorance. Salmon. They need water to swim up stream, and commercial fishermen may also be part of the argument as well.

Click to expand...

California has tough choices to make. I could see that maybe he is critical on them for not addressing those tough choices for water. Remaining river flow may be the only thing they have left for not going large scale on desalination.

Nickyjo said:

Naturally, we in the north of California tend also to blame LA people who live in a city that shouldn't be there in anything approaching its size, given its lack of water which they greedily suck away from us. See the movie "Chinatown" for some history.

This is not really a partisan issue as the fighting growers in both areas are probably mainly republican, which the rest of the fighting populace are probably mostly democrat, except that Trump dislikes California apparently.

Click to expand...

California is so effed up on so many levels, why does anyone try to bring president Trump into the mix?

Hawkeye10 said:

So now we need to cry over California every year as it burns in large part because of long term poor fire risk management by the state?

When very few people in California seem to be much interested in the state doing better work?

When the states position is "Dont look at us, this is Global Warming fault"?

MAYBE NOT

Click to expand...

How about demonstrating a modicum of leadership? He's incapable. He's too busy came calling from the golf cart.

Lord of Planar said:

He would probably echo my viewpoints.

WTF are they doing, building in known fire hazard areas, then expecting others to subsidize their stupidity?

Yep.

The better move is not to comment.

Click to expand...

You Trump supports are quite the lot. He was right.

Here, let me help the baffled experts...

The backdrop of Trump’s tweets is a charged debate before the State Water Resources Control Board, the agency tasked with allocating California’s water supplies. It is set to vote this month on a plan to increase flows in the San Joaquin River and its tributaries, which would help fish but hurt farmers.

The agency hopes to aid migrating salmon that have struggled with too little water in the San Joaquin, and to restore habitat in the fish-depleted delta. Central Valley farmers and water agencies are lobbying to amend or defeat the plan.

Last month, Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke visited agricultural areas that would be affected by the river proposal and called on state leaders to be more sympathetic to farmers. Several congressman in rural California have made similar pleas, and the cause has apparently found its way to the White House.

Click to expand...

https://www.sfchronicle.com/califor...tweets-again-on-CA-wildfires-and-13135373.php

Top Cat said:

You Trump supports are quite the lot. He was right.

Click to expand...

I present an alternate possible viewpoint. You shouldn't rush to judgement, and should want to ask other people what they think the reason might be. Wanting to disregard possibilities you don't like, speaks volumes of your morality, integrity, etc.

Lord of Planar said:

I present an alternate possible viewpoint. You shouldn't rush to judgement, and should want to ask other people what they think the reason might be. Wanting to disregard possibilities you don't like, speaks volumes of your morality, integrity, etc.

Click to expand...

Those alternative facts have a right wing bias.

Top Cat said:

Those alternative facts have a right wing bias.

Click to expand...

I'm not claiming fact. I'm balancing left wing bias.

Lord of Planar said:

I'm not claiming fact. I'm balancing left wing bias.

Click to expand...

Bwahahahaha priceless.

Lord of Planar said:

And this is why most these regions have reasonable standards. Know your risk, and pay market price for your risk based on what injurers will bargain for. cant afford insurance, don't ask my tax dollars to help. Move someplace your insurance is affordable.


Such problems will only get worse. One argument to consider might be to take a time when we didn't have water issues, and grant those properties the natural rights to so many acre feet of water. Growth after that is taxed to build and maintain water desalination plants, pumping stations, etc. Those grandfathered in don't pay these fees. Only new development and residence after a certain past time-frame.


Thing about the recent California Droughts, is they really weren't that abnormal in what Nature did. We simply had more people using a water that has a natural cyclical rate.


I am equally critical.


I expect certain services and safety nets. At times, more is understandable, but we now have it as an accepted way of life, and that is wrong. People should have the morality and dignity to try to make things better for themselves, and stop relying on others.


California has tough choices to make. I could see that maybe he is critical on them for not addressing those tough choices for water. Remaining river flow may be the only thing they have left for not going large scale on desalination.


California is so effed up on so many levels, why does anyone try to bring president Trump into the mix?

Click to expand...

Can't disagree about most of what you said, except about California, whose main problems stem from too many people having wanted to live here. The state is beginning to get realistic about growth in some ways, provides more decent benefits to those less fortunate than do other states, suffers with the rest of the country due to globalization and climate, etc. Trump inserts himself into the mix, when he says dumb things about us, no one brings him in. He could do better by examining our policies on, say fuel efficiency in cars, rather than undermining them.

But you are right, we are a curious species: The growers I worked with years ago might grumble about, say spreading the food stamp program (the county I worked in didn't participate) but they were subsidized in a number of ways they probably had forgotten about. Example: the bracero program of importing seasonal Mexican workers temporarily, instituted in WWII due to a feared or real shortage of labor, didn't end til 1964. Not surprisingly, the first successful farmworker strike happened in 1965. Workers also had a 54 hour week before overtime kicked in, no unemployment insurance, got workers comp late in the game, and the power of the growers prevented the outlaw of the short-handled hoe for years, til the 1970s, I believe. Growers also benefitted by research at government subsidized universities and shamelessly subsidized water designed for small farms, but available to giant ones. But their mentality was that they stood alone, with the land and God their only allies.

Lord of Planar said:

Without the specifics of what president Trump knows and said in full context, this is just another bad, childish hate thread.

Appears to me he thinks the fires could be lessened with better water management. What if he is right?

Click to expand...

He is not right. He has no clue about California's water wars.

Rivers are not being "diverted to the ocean." That's absurd.

Firefighters have enough water. The problem is getting enough of it on the blaze. The reasons there are so many and such big wildfires are many. The first and foremost is fire suppression in fire prone areas, fuel load buildup, and poor management of public lands.

Most of those mismanaged public lands are run by the Forest Service or the BLM (no, not Black Lives Matter, but the Bureau of Land Management) and not by Sacramento.

and climate change has lengthened the fire season. The fire near Santa Barbara was during the off season and was, until the Clear Lake Blaze, the biggest fire in recorded history.