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Poop. Needles. Rats. Homeless camp pushes SF neighborhood to the edge

Yeah, I traveled through NYC by bus in 1989... I have been boots-on-ground in NYC for a grand total of 1.5 hours in my entire life and I have been mugged there once.

In defense of the city, I suppose, that 1.5 hours were between Midnight and 1:30AM in Port Authority bus terminal. The real miracle is that I wasn't mugged more than once in that 1.5 hours. :lol:

Ah, the peak hours for all sorts of bad behavior. Port Authority was a collection of homeless folks and teenage runaways in those days. It can be a bit sketchy in the later hours, but most of it has moved just south of the bus terminal and nowhere near as bad as it was. It was a popular place for the homeless to get their swerve on too; something I witnessed more times than I care to remember.
 
Ah, the peak hours for all sorts of bad behavior. Port Authority was a collection of homeless folks and teenage runaways in those days. It can be a bit sketchy in the later hours, but most of it has moved just south of the bus terminal and nowhere near as bad as it was. It was a popular place for the homeless to get their swerve on too; something I witnessed more times than I care to remember.

I lost $20 to the classic "do you have change?" scam. the gun materialized once he had the $20 in his hands. Ah well. I was tired, it was late...

It was funny too, because after I was robbed, I was waiting in line for my bus and a dude in Yale sweats came up to me and said:

"Yo, I saw what happened... I'm an under cover police officer, and we've been staking him out all night. I can get your money back for you... all I need is to see the serial numbers on the rest of your money."

I adopted a bad southern accent and said "Can you hold my turnips while I get my wallet out?" then shot him the buzz off look.
:lamo
 
I lost $20 to the classic "do you have change?" scam. the gun materialized once he had the $20 in his hands. Ah well. I was tired, it was late...

It was funny too, because after I was robbed, I was waiting in line for my bus and a dude in Yale sweats came up to me and said:

"Yo, I saw what happened... I'm an under cover police officer, and we've been staking him out all night. I can get your money back for you... all I need is to see the serial numbers on the rest of your money."

I adopted a bad southern accent and said "Can you hold my turnips while I get my wallet out?" then shot him the buzz off look.
:lamo

Well, the take aways from those experiences was often just being glad you didn't get hurt. I got robbed at knife point once the blade poked me in my lower back. My jacket and shirt got a little cut and I bled a bit, but no stitches fortunately. After that I carried around a small billy club made out of vulcanized rubber with a metal core named "The Persuader" which I bought in Chinatown. Back in the 80s, Chinatown was the go to place for all sorts of handheld weapons; plus martial arts became popular so I took Aikido for a while. What I learned came in pretty handy and got me out of some binds. I pulled The Persuader out a few times, but fortunately didn't have to use it.
 
... who will subsequently work harder than you ever have in your whole life for a fraction of the pay.

So what you really mean is that they will work harder than you care to. And this is a reason to have open borders?
 
So what you really mean is that they will work harder than you care to. And this is a reason to have open borders?

I guess when you lose the argument, one needs to pretend the other side is advocating ‘open borders’.

[emoji849]
 
I guess when you lose the argument, one needs to pretend the other side is advocating ‘open borders’.

[emoji849]

Do you often guess? BTW, you didn't answer the question.
:eek:uch:
 
Chronicle receives a deluge of email every day, but one message sent to the news desk on a Saturday evening in April was particularly memorable. “There is a suitcase full of human s— on the corner of Isis and 13th,” the email read. “Last night, I had to threaten violence to a man smoking crystal meth on my front porch. This morning, my 2-year-old son and I watched a rat rummage through the trash in our gutter.

This problem has been increasing in severity for years now with no end in sight. It's an embarrassment that a once great American city is now worse than many third world slums. The far left democrats who control the city (and state) offer no viable solutions. The new governor will not penalize people who defecate on the streets and side walks or openly abuse intravenous drugs. NGOs continue to incentivize the homeless to set up camp, and now the city wants to build government funded centers for addicts to use their drugs. Insanity.

What are some of the root problems of this epidemic?

What are the solutions?

**** 'em. They get what they vote for. The stupid cannot be fixed without harsh lessons.
 
I know that you are mocking, but I was serious.

-Expensive housing you saw with Carter/Clinton/housing bubble bursting.
-Without the war on drugs inflating prices, indirectly encouraging crime, directly giving power to organized crime, and encouraging the use of dangerous contaminants, the problems that come with drug addiction would look very different than it does today.
-Without the government's monopoly on force and subsidizing the risk of criminals, people would then be able to handle the problems that homeless crazy drug addicts bring to their doorstep (literally, in the article) themselves.
-Without the government's welfare systems, these people would have had to live more responsible lives from an earlier age, and society would encourage the same, possibly preventing such a downward spiral in the first place.
-Without government's incest with big pharma, people would be free to come up with alternatives to addictive drugs.
-Without the government's heavy taxation and regulation, people would be wealthier, and drugs would be dirt cheap and as available as the market demanded. People that were going to overdose would do so more quickly, and die off. This would provide fine examples and create a fine polarizing effect in society that made people shun such behavior, ultimately lessening it.
-Governments also have a hand in mental illness, since they actively strip rationality from beginning education onwards.
-Government involvement in social engineering, such as marriage policies and laws, would disappear. This would in turn make for healthier environments for families, which would create mentally healthier children.

Government is so large, and affects so many aspects of everyone's lives that it would be impossible to predict all of the positive outcomes of getting rid of it, including its effects on the problems of drug addiction. But, I've given at least some.

Probably some good ideas there, but some of the “die off”stuff seems to have come from the renowned Dr. Mengele Institute of Social Planning.
 
**** 'em. They get what they vote for. The stupid cannot be fixed without harsh lessons.

Too bad little kids are part of the lessons.
 
Question: do we blame cities like SF for treating the homeless with a measure of humanity, or do we blame the cities and towns from which the homeless came?
 
Question: do we blame cities like SF for treating the homeless with a measure of humanity, or do we blame the cities and towns from which the homeless came?

How about we blame the people who come to SF because it allows them to live on its streets, panhandle, steal, shoot up and piss and crap in public with impunity.
 
How about we blame the people who come to SF because it allows them to live on its streets, panhandle, steal, shoot up and piss and crap in public with impunity.

I think they just need to get all of the mentally ill ones back into some form of care, and do some major public work projects. In order to get the ones who can work, starting to earning something to get by.

Keep it on a merit based system, or a sort of probation system that if it turns out that you're using this money for substance abuse. That you get removed from the program so someone else who's eligible can take your place.

...California is such a **** hole state. Both figuratively and literally.
 
I think they just need to get all of the mentally ill ones back into some form of care, and do some major public work projects. In order to get the ones who can work, starting to earning something to get by.

Keep it on a merit based system, or a sort of probation system that if it turns out that you're using this money for substance abuse. That you get removed from the program so someone else who's eligible can take your place.

...California is such a **** hole state. Both figuratively and literally.

Agreed, especially about California being f-ed. If it were up to me, I'd take a three-pronged solution.
- I'd re-institutionalize the mentally ill, which is cruel but less cruel then letting them live on the streets.
- I'd give as much help as we possibly can to the few who became homeless through some personal or familial crises. Cheap temporary housing (and I do mean CHEAP! Set up tents and dig latrines and portable showers cheap) while we help these people transition back into society.
- And as for the bums who prefer to live on the streets, I'd round them up, force them to clean up their own filth and then march them to the city limits with a warning not to return. Where should they go? NOT HERE! That's where.
 
Too bad little kids are part of the lessons.

Yup...kids have always suffered from the poor decisions and actions of their parents/adults....be it governmental policies, war, just bad parenting, ect.
 
How about we blame the people who come to SF because it allows them to live on its streets, panhandle, steal, shoot up and piss and crap in public with impunity.

True, studies from the prestigious Dr. Mengele Institute in Paraguay show that harsh measures from the authorities directed at these vermin create housing, employment at a living wage and, most importantly, eliminate mental illness.
 
Chronicle receives a deluge of email every day, but one message sent to the news desk on a Saturday evening in April was particularly memorable. “There is a suitcase full of human s— on the corner of Isis and 13th,” the email read. “Last night, I had to threaten violence to a man smoking crystal meth on my front porch. This morning, my 2-year-old son and I watched a rat rummage through the trash in our gutter.

This problem has been increasing in severity for years now with no end in sight. It's an embarrassment that a once great American city is now worse than many third world slums. The far left democrats who control the city (and state) offer no viable solutions. The new governor will not penalize people who defecate on the streets and side walks or openly abuse intravenous drugs. NGOs continue to incentivize the homeless to set up camp, and now the city wants to build government funded centers for addicts to use their drugs. Insanity.

What are some of the root problems of this epidemic?

What are the solutions?

It’s a housing crisis. Working people can’t afford a home there. The situation needs to be addressed.
 
It’s a housing crisis. Working people can’t afford a home there. The situation needs to be addressed.

Build all the "affordable" housing you want, the homeless will still poop and pee in the streets while imbibing their favorite narcotic.
 
Chronicle receives a deluge of email every day, but one message sent to the news desk on a Saturday evening in April was particularly memorable. “There is a suitcase full of human s— on the corner of Isis and 13th,” the email read. “Last night, I had to threaten violence to a man smoking crystal meth on my front porch. This morning, my 2-year-old son and I watched a rat rummage through the trash in our gutter.

This problem has been increasing in severity for years now with no end in sight. It's an embarrassment that a once great American city is now worse than many third world slums. The far left democrats who control the city (and state) offer no viable solutions. The new governor will not penalize people who defecate on the streets and side walks or openly abuse intravenous drugs. NGOs continue to incentivize the homeless to set up camp, and now the city wants to build government funded centers for addicts to use their drugs. Insanity.

What are some of the root problems of this epidemic?

What are the solutions?

I went to a convention in 1997. Semicon '97. I was with a semiconductor company. It didn't seem that bad, until a light rain. Then the whole city stunk of urine. I never likes SF. My first trip there was in the late 60's or early 70's. Not so bad them. My 97 trip was the last time I was there. I have no desire to ever go to that filthy place again.
 
True, studies from the prestigious Dr. Mengele Institute in Paraguay show that harsh measures from the authorities directed at these vermin create housing, employment at a living wage and, most importantly, eliminate mental illness.

The soft measures employed by SF and other cities create more homeless, more addiction, more filth and less tolerance for it by the general populace.
 
The soft measures employed by SF and other cities create more homeless, more addiction, more filth and less tolerance for it by the general populace.

And if we adopted non-soft measures all-over the US, no exceptions, the problem would cease, no doubt. Submit your paper on the topic to Congress.

Near where I live in Berkeley there is a homeless camp with neat tents laid out on what was a non-used grassy place near a tunnel entrance. Tents were apparently donated, if I remember correctly. The homeless, many of whom work, have set up solar panels for electricity. There are some public showers they can use, I believe, and city staff and volunteers try to steer occupants to what housing opens up and/or to mental health services.

But please, list your superior ideas below so we can rid ourselves of the problem once and for all.
 
And if we adopted non-soft measures all-over the US, no exceptions, the problem would cease, no doubt. Submit your paper on the topic to Congress.

Near where I live in Berkeley there is a homeless camp with neat tents laid out on what was a non-used grassy place near a tunnel entrance. Tents were apparently donated, if I remember correctly. The homeless, many of whom work, have set up solar panels for electricity. There are some public showers they can use, I believe, and city staff and volunteers try to steer occupants to what housing opens up and/or to mental health services.

But please, list your superior ideas below so we can rid ourselves of the problem once and for all.

Where is this camp? Near which streets?
 
Where is this camp? Near which streets?

It’s along the BART (light rail) path as it heads into a tunnel. There is a patch of grass about 10 yards wide and a couple of blocks long on MLKING way, as the tracks head into a tunnel towards Oakland.
 
It’s along the BART (light rail) path as it heads into a tunnel. There is a patch of grass about 10 yards wide and a couple of blocks long on MLKING way, as the tracks head into a tunnel towards Oakland.

Ah. Thanks. I googled this last night and thought you might have meant the homeless camp under I-80 at University. That one looks like every other homeless camp in California and the West Coast in general with its makeshift tents and mountains of trash everywhere. Frankly it looks scary and disgusting.

But the "HERE IS THERE" camp on MLK seems to be the exception to the rule with its solar panels, city-provided portapotty and a community tent with refreshments and maybe simple medical care. The people in the 20 or so tents there have it pretty nice, relatively speaking. Reading up on it, they seem to be able to have this little oasis by enforcing a lot of rules. No drinking, no drugs, clean up your trash, don't sh*t on the sidewalk. The homeless bums who won't or can't follow rules no doubt get pushed out and probably wind up at the other sh*thole camp at I-80.

Also, I don't know if the homeless living here ever transition back into normal housing. or if they are just essentially homesteading a bit of public land in the middle of the city. Either way, it doesn't seem like a scalable solution. But kudos to Berkeley and the HIT residents for their model homeless camp.
 
Agreed, especially about California being f-ed. If it were up to me, I'd take a three-pronged solution.
- I'd re-institutionalize the mentally ill, which is cruel but less cruel then letting them live on the streets.
- I'd give as much help as we possibly can to the few who became homeless through some personal or familial crises. Cheap temporary housing (and I do mean CHEAP! Set up tents and dig latrines and portable showers cheap) while we help these people transition back into society.
- And as for the bums who prefer to live on the streets, I'd round them up, force them to clean up their own filth and then march them to the city limits with a warning not to return. Where should they go? NOT HERE! That's where.

Good luck having them enforce such policies, or even letting them be heard. You currently have a state that is willing to let its homeless defecate out in the open, on their streets, in the doorways of open businesses, etc.
The rampant drug use has them unable to pick up all of the used needles that they, funny enough, hand out to these people to help combat drug transitions through the use of dirty needles. With if memory serves, not even half of those needles are even returned to the city for disposal.

At this point I'm willing to say let the state flip red, and then see what happens. It will either be one of the greatest social experiments we've ever seen, or the state will burn even more than it already does.
 

EPA Puts San Francisco On Notice Over ‘Instances Of Sewage Flowing In The Streets’

From The Daily Caller Chris White Tech Reporter October 03, 2019 10:30 AM ET The Environmental Protection Agency issued a notice Wednesday accusing San Francisco of violating the Clean Water Act, a 1970s environmental regulation designed to protect the country’s waterways and tributaries. San Francisco is struggling to maintain its sprawling sewage system, allowing “substantial…
 
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