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Let's talk about California Fire Management + CA COMPETENCE

Hawkeye10 said:
I think they go far, this is a computer controlled system that they are very proud of, they claim that they can dump on target very very well, and I have not heard them put in a wind exception. I was researching this thing sometime back for some reason which is why I now something about it, and is why I brought it up as well.
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If you were "researching' why have you gotten so much wrong?
 
Bodhisattva said:
Grew up in Huntington Beach by the Bolsa Chica Wetlands then lived in Newport for about ten years on the peninsula... 15th Street. Been to Disneyland at least 50 times.

My first teaching job was in Vallejo. Was living in Sebastopol so you know what kind of drive that is. Beautiful but looong. Both my kids were born in Santa Rosa hospital which was evacuated last week... i heard.

Used to surf Trestles and most the other breaks and down to Blacks and San O.
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Vallejo to Sebastopol? Dayum. 40+ miles. That is a drive.

I was motorcycling all over the area. Loved each and every side road.
 
California fires and Puerto Rico aren't on trump's radar ...
 
Hawkeye10 said:
More "We're trying, we really really are" but things move like sludge and never seem to work very well.

So they blind us with useless numbers and sell hope:

PG&E spent millions on fire prevention; it may not have been enough - SFGate
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While the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection says PG&E’s equipment is just one potential cause, the state agency that regulates utilities has told PG&E to save every piece of damaged equipment from the area as evidence for the investigations to come. (On Friday, the same agency, the California Public Utilities Commission, also sent similar letters to six telecommunications companies, telling them to preserve their damaged gear from the fire zones.)

Read, comprehend, THEN comment.
 
Devastating wine country fire must force a new look at prevention
BY THE SACBEE EDITORIAL BOARD

Cal Fire is developing maps detailing fire zones, and is expected to deliver them in early 2018 to the California Public Utilities Commission, which oversees utilities such as PG&E. The commission will develop a strategy for limiting fire risk from power lines. Based on history, that process could take years. The wine country fire should add urgency to that undertaking.
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Wine country fire must force new prevention efforts | The Sacramento Bee

Exactly my point, California is slow as sludge even on important things, because they dont seem to be all that good at this stuff.

Either that or they dont care enough because we are 4 years into the tree mortality problem (100+ million killed by drought) and they still have years to go trying to figure out how to prevent fires like we have burning right now.






That's negligence.



EDIT: the situation is so pathetic that in the summer PG&E flies 5 little Cessna's around the high danger areas looking for fire, because the dead tree powerline problem is such a problem, been doing it 4 years, because the state and PG&E cant get together to figure out how to come up with a plan and a plan for how to pay for the plan in less than 6 or 7 years or so....apparently.
 
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Fledermaus said:
Vallejo to Sebastopol? Dayum. 40+ miles. That is a drive.

I was motorcycling all over the area. Loved each and every side road.
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Loved the drives... amazing roads. Closer to 60 miles... one eay... if I remember correctly...

Huge pumpkin farm out in the hills we would go to. Pick your own. Put it on a tractor. Fun.

Trying to set up a trip back to West Sonoma County for this January when my daughter and I visit for Christmas.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Devastating wine country fire must force a new look at prevention
BY THE SACBEE EDITORIAL BOARD

Wine country fire must force new prevention efforts | The Sacramento Bee

Exactly my point, California is slow as sludge even on important things, because they dont seem to be all that good at this stuff.

Either that or they dont care enough because we are 4 years into the tree mortality problem (100+ million killed by drought) and they still have years to go trying to figure out how to prevent fires like we have burning right now.

That's negligence.

EDIT: the situation is so pathetic that in the summer PG&E flies 5 little Cessna's around the high danger areas looking for fire, because the dead tree powerline problem is such a problem, been doing it 4 years, because the state and PG&E cant get together to figure out how to come up with a plan and a plan for how to pay for the plan in less than 6 or 7 years or so....apparently.
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Annnnnnnnnd

Another goalpost move.
 
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From the distance of the other side of the Atlantic I see pictures on the TV of burnt out homes with full swimming pools.

Why, when you live in a fire risk zone, do you not have a generator and electric pump or petrol pump which you can use to spray water all arond your house and over the surrounding trees etc when you have a 1 hour warning and then all over your house as the fire gets close?

If every body did this then the sprad of the fire would stop.
 
Meanwhile,state Sen. Jerry Hill, D-Redwood City, a frequent PG&E and PUC critic, said he plans to hold a hearing on the fire and particularly explore whether there was any shirking of vegetation-maintenance requirements, as has been the case with the utility in the past.

“I’m hoping that’s not the case here,” Hill said by phone Saturday while vacationing in Europe. “If it is, that should signal the end of PG&E.”

Hill chairs a Senate Subcommittee on Gas, Electric and Transportation Safety, and has held previous hearings on power lines and wildfire safety and prevention
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CPUC launches investigation into Northern California wildfires, PG&E

See the problem with this stance is that PG&E is a regulated utility, and so the buck stops with the state, which to date has not come up with a plan to deal with all of the dead trees, even though they started dying 5 years ago. PG&E can not be expected to pay for it all out of profits, either the state needs to come up with money from taxes or customers need to pay in increased rates, which the state will must approve. PG&E claims that they are removing eight times the number of trees as they did before the drought, on their own dime I believe, they have tried they claim, so should the State of California put all the blame on PG&E for dead trees falling into power lines caused this as it is currently believed when the state has been negligent in dealing with the problem over a period of years? Should PG&E get the death penalty (they only have $800 million insurance coverage) as a result of these fires?

IDK
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
CPUC launches investigation into Northern California wildfires, PG&E

See the problem with this stance is that PG&E is a regulated utility, and so the buck stops with the state, which to date has not come up with a plan to deal with all of the dead trees, even though they started dying 5 years ago. PG&E can not be expected to pay for it all out of profits, either the state needs to come up with money from taxes or customers need to pay in increased rates, which the state will must approve. PG&E claims that they are removing eight times the number of trees as they did before the drought, on their own dime I believe, they have tried they claim, so should the State of California put all the blame on PG&E for dead trees falling into power lines caused this as it is currently believed when the state has been negligent in dealing with the problem over a period of years? Should PG&E get the death penalty (they only have $800 million insurance coverage) as a result of these fires?

IDK
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OMG you are at it again?

How about waiting until the reasons are determined before damning every
 
Good grief! California has always had fires and always will. I just read a very sad story about and older couple that were driving out behind other family members, when their vehicle broke down. They ran back and took cover in their pool. They were there for several hours, ducking under water, with just their mouths sticking out at times. He survived, but she did not.

Once the fires are actually out, then there will be massive investigations, and probably many lawsuits. Hopefully, it will lead to improvements by way of new warning systems, procedures, prevention policies, etc.
 
I just read that the home of Charles Schultz (Peanuts) in Santa Rosa, burned. His widow, Jeanne, escaped.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
That is one of Trumps and congress agendas. If state and local government had to insure these homes they would not issue the permits. However as long as the federal government is footing the bill the local government will continue to allow people to build in clearly dangerous areas. You would see zoning changes if the local government had to offer flood and fire insurance to these areas that regular insurance companies are not stupid enough to cover. Plus it would be the local people living in harms way that would be subsidizing these policies and paying money out. I think they would have a change of heart if it come out of their pockets instead of everyone else's. It is clear the average home owner does not care until after the fact.
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So what you're suggesting is anyone wanting to build a home in Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana, or Texas should accept that fact the local or Federal gov't will no longer offer aid in a disaster? These are all states repeatedly subject to hurricane danger.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
These fires are a normal part of the natural process in that part of the country. Just like hurricanes in the gulf coast region. As more and more people build their homes in harms way more and more people are going to have harm come to them. It is sad and unfortunate. Especially for the people that do not realize they are buying a home in harms way. We unfortunately have reached a point in this country where so many people are living in harms way that we cannot afford it. I think in the future we are going to have to get smarter on how and where we build our homes and cities. Otherwise things will get worse.
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Anyone building or buying a home along the Gulf Coast is doing so in harms way, don't you agree?
 
lurchadams said:
Anyone building or buying a home along the Gulf Coast is doing so in harms way, don't you agree?
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Absolutely. However how utilities are installed and building codes designed to withstand a hurricane as well as where you build makes a lot of difference. When I lived in Houston my home was built with hurricanes in mind. During Hurricane Alicia the eye passed over my house yet the extent of my damage was to roof shingles only. No flooding because I was on high ground. I had prepared 3/4 plywood pre cut with anchors already in the brick to cover all windows. It was a cheaper option than the roll down steel hurricane covers. I never lost power, telephone, or cable TV thanks to underground utilities designed with hurricanes in mind. I did not even make a claim to my insurance company. My roof was old and it was cheaper for me to pay for the roof out of pocket.

My father, my step brother, and my uncle all live in Houston and Galveston and have had only minor roof damage as well. My cousin lives in Padre Island and only suffered minor roof damage on her home. All have been hit by multiple hurricanes and tropical storms. The biggest problem most of them suffered was poorly designed utilities. If and when they get their act together they would not even lose power.
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
Aid in a disaster is one thing, rebuilding money is another.

Pipewrench is likely making the following argument:

America's self-defeating cycle of floods and federal aid - Chicago Tribune
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Exactly. My argument is if people want to continue to build in harms way they have that right. They also have the right to suffer the consequences. My house easily handled a cat. 2 hurricane. A cat.5 is anther problem all together. What aggravates me is I pay the same insurance as the person next to me who does not cover his windows and did not use 3/4 plywood on the roof and metal ties to eliminate the removal of the roof that leads to most of your catastrophic damage. 1-1/2" nails in 3/4 plywood with quality shingles make a big difference in 100+ mph winds. Your roof stays on damage to your home is minimal if you are not flooded. I trimmed my trees so air will flow through instead of knocking them over. Even this latest flooding did not affect anyone in my family other than them being unable to go anywhere. No one got flooded.
 
— PG&E’s stock continued to plunge Monday, with state regulators now conducting a preliminary review of the utility’s possible role in the Wine Country firestorms — a potential prelude to a full-scale investigation.

The San Francisco-based utility’s shares had plunged nearly 13 percent in early morning trading, but some buying activity later left the stock with a 7.4 percent loss and a closing price of $53.43.

The continued pressure Monday on PG&E’s stock price follows disclosures that state regulators directed the electricity and natural gas utility, as well as telecommunications companies, to preserve evidence possibly relating to the wildfires.

The prospect of an official PUC probe into PG&E has triggered echoes of the utility’s role in causing a fatal explosion on the Peninsula in September 2010, when a PG&E natural gas pipeline ruptured and unleashed a fireball that killed eight and destroyed a neighborhood in San Bruno.

Federal investigators determined that a lethal combination of PG&E’s shoddy maintenance and flawed record keeping were the principal causes of the San Bruno disaster. But the investigators also blamed the PUC’s cozy ties to PG&E and its lax oversight of the utility, one of a series of disclosures that have called into question the state agency’s ability to properly supervise California’s big power utilities.
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PG&E shares crash while PUC eyes utility's role in wildfires

Now for the big question: Are we going to find that California has not improved their regulating game over all these years after their bad work got people killed?

I would not put any money on California doing it right.

WALL STREET AGREES
 
DiAnna said:
Let's not. Wettest winter in a century; massive fuel explosion. Northwind weather events, plus idiot firebugs with matches = 5000+ structures burned, nearly 30 confirmed dead and 500 missing, and here comes Hawkeye10 opining that any of the thousands of Californians who lost their homes of their lives were the fault of a state legislature that didn't pay the proper bounty to Moscow during the international poker game of "massive annihilation during natural disasters" because the Soviets were able to control the massive wind events that destroyed thousands of structures, killed hundreds of people because, hey, they are the MAN, right?

Just forget about it. Just Californians after all. Nobody important. Who cares if they live or die. The congress and WH only care about RED states... nobody in DC gives a fat flying fuck about California, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands or anywhere else where Blue States or American Citizens who don't have the allowable votes to fight back.
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This really isn't making a lot of sense, especially the part about 'allowable votes'... but, the fact is California doesn't care about California and has elected liberal leaders who don't give a damn except for the money they can drain from this state.. that goes for the other places you've mentioned... look at the elected leaders as DC has little to do with it.... here is an example.

ICE Detainer Issued for Suspected Wine Country Arsonist in Sonoma Jail - Breitbart

The U.S. Immigration & Customs Enforcement Agency (ICE) issued a detainer request on the Sonoma County Jail for Jesus Fabian Gonzalez, who was arrested Sunday on suspicion of arson in Wine Country fires that have killed at least 40 residents.
Breitbart News reported earlier this week that Sonoma County Sheriffs had arrested Jesus Fabian Gonzalez, 29, at Maxwell Regional Park in Sonoma County after a series of reports of ongoing fires in the region. Mr. Gonzalez was observed around 3:00 p.m. PDT wearing a jacket and walking “out of the creek area and a plume of smoke behind him,” according to the Santa Rosa Press Democrat.

Mr. Gonzalez, who is homeless and reportedly known by law enforcement to have been living under a nearby bridge, claimed he was cold and had lit the fire to stay warm. But it was a balmy 78 degrees when he and the plume of smoke were first observed.

Mr. Gonzalez was booked into the Sonoma County Jail for suspicion of felony arson. His bail was set at a steep $110,000, according to the Sonoma County Sheriff Public Information Officer.
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PIPEWRENCH said:
These fires are a normal part of the natural process in that part of the country. Just like hurricanes in the gulf coast region. As more and more people build their homes in harms way more and more people are going to have harm come to them. It is sad and unfortunate. Especially for the people that do not realize they are buying a home in harms way. We unfortunately have reached a point in this country where so many people are living in harms way that we cannot afford it. I think in the future we are going to have to get smarter on how and where we build our homes and cities. Otherwise things will get worse.
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PG&E is the one suspected of faulty wiring for the N Calif fires. It's just not official yet.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Worst fires ever, dead people, people rushing out of the house in the middle of the night with nothing just steps in front of the fire because they were not warned, in fact there no longer exists a good warning system now that almost no one has land lines. Remember Oroville Dam where the spillway broke to potentially catastrophic result this year:

Oroville Dam: Here's what the spillway looks like now

Failure to do maintenance is state of California mismanagement, just as I claimed at the time. I also was not happy with their water level management, it was stupid to let it get to 100% before they dumped any water just because they wanted to look at a 100% full lake, the spillway had not been used in years, maybe you want to test it out??

MAYBE?


So horrible state of California management happens...did it happen here? Both by failing to control the fires and by failing to warn people?

See I have this theory that California does bad work in part because like Japan before the nuke problem they still have a rep for being able to manage things, so with that and a citizenry who wants to trust them no one ever starts asking the right questions (Including so-called journalists of course), no one ever starts demanding proof that things are getting done, which is good, because they are not. California officials get away with it because citizens do not demand better.

But too many more really bad failures like this and that reputation is gone baby.

What does California do then I wonder.
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They can start by decently paying and equipping a forestry service to regularly maintain their woodlands. This would also include teaching young kids that college is not the only option and that these are good careers that pay.
 
jet57 said:
PG&E is the one suspected of faulty wiring for the N Calif fires. It's just not official yet.
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The faulty wire is irrelevant. Trying to find someone to blame for the start of the inevitable fires is pointless. Wild fires are a natural part of the ecosystem in that part of the country. Our interfering and attempting to eliminate them is doing more harm than good. It has been proven that not letting them burn on a regular schedule creates more devastating fires when they do eventually happen. You can blame PG&E, a careless camper, a native American 10,000 years ago cooking his supper, lighting, etc. but the fact remains the fires are a part of the normal ecosystem of this part of the country. Trees have evolved with extra thick bark to survive these fires and special pine cones that require fires to reforest the area. If you live in this area you need to build with the premise that these fires will and are going to happen. Looking for someone t blame will not stop the fires. Just the same as people on the great plains know tornadoes will happen and people on the Gulf coast know hurricanes will happen people in this part of the country better learn that fires will happen.
 
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