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What is wrong with you?

OlNate said:
I hear you...this seem to be deteriorating fast. I'm honestly blown away at my FB feed these days - not surprisingly a lot of the people on my friends list, and the people that I watch participate in the various ongoing discussions on their pages, are left leaning, and I'm amazed at the generosity with which they treat AntiFa. I mean, I've said before that in the context of AntiFa vs. Nazis, while I don't condone AntiFa's methodologies, I find their target (Nazis) acceptable, so it creates this ambivalence that tends to lead to "Meh". And I've said before, I find them less problematic than white supremacists, but I've never said I approve...well, maybe a bit right after the lady got killed, but I think that represented a head in the whole Right vs. Left thing (as unfair as that statement is to both sides), and I, along with a lot of other people, was pissed...but for the most part I think I've stayed pretty consistent on not being a fan of their methodology.

But I do see a lot of folks starting to marginally or outright condone AntiFa as a justifiable response to what they see as a Right-led attack on progress towards a more tolerant, peaceful, socially minded society. In a lot of ways I think that is misplaced, because while I think it's an us vs. them situation, I'm not sure that need equate to a Left vs. Right... This division is being seeded and nurtured by those that stand to benefit from it, and that division, which all of this is a consequence of, is something that people are throwing themselves into like it was Walmart on Black Friday, or something, with more and more people getting caught up in it. And it seems to be a perpetual energy machine, with the expenditure of angst creating exponentially more angst, so that no one gets this **** out of their system...hehe...

To me this feels like the kind of friction that happens before a major societal shift, which is by no means unprecedented or even uncommon, if you stretch the timeline back far enough. Everything gets shook up and crazy, and nothing feels like it makes sense according to what traditionally constitutes reason because a new reason is being established. AntiFa's methodology is condoned because it's ideology is more aligned to where society wants to go than the ideologies of their targets, and these incidents coincide with a period where America is undergoing a pretty significant battle of ideologies. That is further demonstrated by the fact that the other side of the same coin, the folks opposed to this, want to summarily dismiss AntiFa as terrorists or thugs, and ignore what drives their "cause", because they believe in the status quo, or traditional ideologies. I think that people in the latter group are in for a tough go, because until that's sorted out, there will always be an AntiFa in some form or another, until society achieves the changes it wants, or changes it's mind about what it wants...and in the meantime, as we've seen in the past, until the situation resolves itself one way or another, the violence will escalate and bring the matter to a head, because society can't tolerate this level of division for long.
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So many words about AntiFa and yet I, and probably you, have no idea what specific changes that group of "protestors" actually wants. To me it seems much like that OWS bunch that amounted to a collection of idiots that had no idea what they wanted other than even more income redistribution.

 
Oborosen said:
The man who pulled the gun fired warning shots, at most he is guilt of unlawful discharge of a weapon within city limits. The man who drove his car into protestors was considered mental unstable by some of his former teachers.

Your attempts to continually spin debate into a favorable position, is what made me chime it at this point. Say what you want about the alt-right jackasses, but at least they are assembling/protesting legally. Your little Antifa waifu's are performing massed assaults, riots, and vandalism a vast majority of the time they show up. Not to mention attacking people that are completely innocent, counter to their claims.

Face it, they are the bigger piece of **** in this equation.
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Warning shots and murderous driving are terrorism. The Alt Right will never control the spin of what happened.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
So many words about AntiFa and yet I, and probably you, have no idea what specific changes that group of "protestors" actually wants. To me it seems much like that OWS bunch that amounted to a collection of idiots that had no idea what they wanted other than even more income redistribution.

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(Sorry, behind a firewall that is preventing me from seeing the video for some reason)

I agree, they very much have a "Occupy Wall street" feel to them...another movement that shouted loud about what was wrong without bringing any real solutions. Yet, they had their points too... The "General Public" very rarely have real solutions that will work in the real world, they only know what's not working for them. That's why we keep politicians and policy makers around, instead of fitting them with cement shoes and sending them to the bottom of the river...haha ;) (Kidding! #NoViolence lol)

In the meantime, I made a thread here a while ago that linked to some AntiFa material about their view on Freedom of Speech. It contained some good points, it contained some nonsense, I wasn't advocating for it, just putting up as an FYI, but what was telling was the number of folks (primarily some of our more right leaning friends) who took the time to comment on how they weren't going to read it because AntiFa are scum, swine, jerks, stupid faces, etc.... I think it's on us to try to understand what we can about our fringes, because fringe is now the new norm, and it is probably smart to at least have an idea of what we're all so worked up about. I think the fear is that folks will find something they might actually agree with, putting cracks in their foundation of partisanship, and, ultimately, their unshakeable faith in their own rightness.
 
Oborosen said:
I honestly think it started with the media parroting the whole notion back out into the world from political opponents of Trump or his views, that everyone of them was a racist, misogynist, etc. After so long of repeating it over, and over I think people just stopped asking the necessary questions. Instead opting to go along with it in droves, like some sort of lemming army.

I got dangerously close to that during the election, until I saw what BLM was doing to Bernie at his own rally. So I started looking around, and asking more questions, and by the time the Democrats had tossed Bernie aside I knew it wasn't right.

This whole political storm is just a waste, seeing as their are valid reasons to not like Trump. Just as much as their are valid reason to want him to stay in his current seat, but all of his opponents keep screaming the same tire, and pointless things.

No one is going to learn at this rate.
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It has been happening for some time. There have always been people who thought the President was terrible for as long I can remember and that goes back many presidential administrations. But it began to solidify and intensify during the Vietnam War. And it has intensified ever since, coming to a head under President Bush 43 and going on steroids when President Trump was elected. Bush was the illegitimate President, remember?--selected, not elected. That was intolerable to the left.

And President Trump was not supposed to happen at all. They said he wouldn't run. They said he would quit. They said he wouldn't win a single primary. They said he wouldn't win the nomination. They said he couldn't be elected. He exposed the bias and unreliability of the media, and all the hatefulness and selective prejudices of the left even as he himself was no partisan, no ideologue, not bound to any political mantra. They set out to destroy him and probably won't give up on that as long as he is in office.

They can't attack his agenda without looking like idiots. So the only ammo they have to use against him is to attack him personally by declaring him racist, sexist, homophobic, mentally unbalanced, an idiot, and all the other adjectives they come up with to describe him. And the latest tactic is to tie him in with the white supremacists. It is hateful. It is dishonest. And if good people don't resist that, it could be very dangerous to America as we know it.
 
Good Americans have no trouble successfully opposing the President's wrong-headed agenda.

That is never going to change.
 
JamesBY said:
You can deny all you want, but I am very right on in my figures.
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The you should have no problem providing a reputable source. I'm still waiting on that.

Quit shifting the argument.
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I'm not. You seem to be.

And the American people seem to be, as a whole, based on the news and radio and internet, etc. very glad that Antifa will put themselves between the Alt Right and those they want to hurt. I have no idea why you would support Alt Right hurting people.
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I seriously doubt any of that ^. And you've decided that I support the wacky right and I endorse hurting Americans. You're nuts.
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JamesBY said:
Your logic is off again. I said one in four. That is not "all" as you suggest. And if you won't denounce evil, well, that does not look good. Why do you have trouble with the idea that the Antifa get between people who would hurt they people they hate?
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My logic is just fine. I don't think you know what it means. And there you go again supporting Antifa and suggesting I support hate or some such baloney. You're a cute little fellow, I'm sure.
 
;) Doubt all you want, Humbolt. You do support the Alt Right. We all know what they endorse.
 
JamesBY said:
;) Doubt all you want, Humbolt. You do support the Alt Right. We all know what they endorse.
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Got those numbers from a reputable source yet? No? Tell ya what. Why don't you just post them from any source at all so I don't have to believe you just made them suckers up.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
So many words about AntiFa and yet I, and probably you, have no idea what specific changes that group of "protestors" actually wants. To me it seems much like that OWS bunch that amounted to a collection of idiots that had no idea what they wanted other than even more income redistribution.

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That song was put out 46 years ago during the year I graduated from high school. It has nothing to do with GOP boogiemen Antifa, OWS, BLM or any other distraction from problems we have today. You had to live through that time and experience it first hand to understand what we felt ...
 
NIMBY said:
That song was put out 46 years ago during the year I graduated from high school. It has nothing to do with GOP boogiemen Antifa, OWS, BLM or any other distraction from problems we have today. You had to live through that time and experience it first hand to understand what we felt ...
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I graduated HS in 1972. The lyrics are very much related to the protestors of today "I'd Love to change the world, but I don't know what to do, so I leave it up to you" and "tax the rich, feed the poor, 'til there are no rich no more".
 
humbolt said:
Got those numbers from a reputable source yet? No? Tell ya what. Why don't you just post them from any source at all so I don't have to believe you just made them suckers up.
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You don't doubt my numbers in the slightest. If they are small as you insist, it does not matter at all. If they are larger, they will find out the don't matter, either.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
I graduated HS in 1972. The lyrics are very much related to the protestors of today "I'd Love to change the world, but I don't know what to do, so I leave it up to you" and "tax the rich, feed the poor, 'til there are no rich no more".
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As Ron Paul would say about his younger years, 'I didn't know I was poor until someone told me I was poor'. Ten Years After came much later and spoke for a generation that got drafted because they were too poor to buy off a politician.

I didn't want anyone else's money. I turned down an ROTC scholarship that would have paid all of my college. I had a very low # for the 1972 draft but knew Nixon/Kissinger wouldn't draft me in an election year.

I had enough of the military growing up as an Air Force Brat. I took the tuition scholarship to be a Chemistry/Physics/Math teacher. Slept in my younger brother's '62 Chevy my 5th year. Took 5 years to pay off my school loans and owe nothing yet own nothing ...
 
NIMBY said:
As Ron Paul would say about his younger years, 'I didn't know I was poor until someone told me I was poor'. Ten Years After came much later and spoke for a generation that got drafted because they were too poor to buy off a politician.

I didn't want anyone else's money. I turned down an ROTC scholarship that would have paid all of my college. I had a very low # for the 1972 draft but knew Nixon/Kissinger wouldn't draft me in an election year.

I had enough of the military growing up as an Air Force Brat. I took the tuition scholarship to be a Chemistry/Physics/Math teacher. Slept in my younger brother's '62 Chevy my 5th year. Took 5 years to pay off my school loans and owe nothing yet own nothing ...
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What are you basing that (bolded above) assertion on?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Years_After
 
JamesBY said:
You don't doubt my numbers in the slightest. If they are small as you insist, it does not matter at all. If they are larger, they will find out the don't matter, either.
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Not even a whacko source then? Ah well. You must be talking out of the wrong end then. Of course, this just ruins my evening - ruins it.
 
humbolt said:
Not even a whacko source then? Ah well. You must be talking out of the wrong end then. Of course, this just ruins my evening - ruins it.
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You can't deal with the numbers either large or small. The point is that the impact of Trump's Alt Right on America will be small in the end.
 
NIMBY said:
Later as in our 'boomer' generation and our 'generation gap' with the 'silent and greatest' generations.

I see very little comparison between our generation and the ones that came after us, as you read on DP ...
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Interesting comment Sir.

Should you ever expand this thought in its own home (thread) please so kind as to give me a shout.
 
OlNate said:
Mmm...not as simple as that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words#United_States

Room for interpretation, but maybe hide that chubby, as you're kind of both right.
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Yup, I already knew about that.

But you try, and take a copy of the case turnout to a protest. Then when an officer tells you he can't arrest the Antifa protestors because they aren't doing anything wrong by calling you a fascist, the point is rather moot.

I do like that you used Wikipedia, the only problem is that you have people on the right & left that want to readily dismiss it for some rather stupid reasons. Its a great site, and when used within context has very powerful meaning. Its just when "people" have the right to pick, and choose on a whim, is when all common sense goes out the window.
 
Oborosen said:
Yup, I already knew about that.

But you try, and take a copy of the case turnout to a protest. Then when an officer tells you he can't arrest the Antifa protestors because they aren't doing anything wrong by calling you a fascist, the point is rather moot.

I do like that you used Wikipedia, the only problem is that you have people on the right & left that want to readily dismiss it for some rather stupid reasons. Its a great site, and when used within context has very powerful meaning. Its just when "people" have the right to pick, and choose on a whim, is when all common sense goes out the window.
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Cops are not Bounty Hunters, free to do most any damn thing they want (Yes, I most certainly do have problems with this barbarity).

They police as instructed.
 
JamesBY said:
Warning shots and murderous driving are terrorism. The Alt Right will never control the spin of what happened.
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There you go trying to spin again.
Yes the driver can be considered a terrorist, but the man with the gun cannot. It has already been proven that he was not performing an act of terrorism, not even by the arresting officers. You can lie about this until your head falls off, its not going to make you any more right. Just far more wrong, and a pretty pitiful sight if I am to be frank about it.
 
I suppose I would have to say to the author of such sentiments "What the **** is wrong with you? Why are you so stupid that you cant see beyond slavery? Why are you such a ****ing moron that you can only relegate an entire group of people to a single issue? Why are you such a delicate little **** that a statue that has stood for 100 years causes you to **** yourself? Why are you such a ****ing retard that you ignore the actual real world devastation that has occured and is occurring THROUGHOUT this country where no statues exist and no confederate flag flies, and instead focus only on symbols and statues that are a part of not only individuals, and states, but indeed, the entire countries heritage? Why are you so filled with hatred that you look for any and every excuse to attack people that...lets be honest...the only reason you hate them is because they have opposing political views and you are such a damaged little **** that you cant communicate or coexist with people that dare to have opposing opinions and viewpoints? I would probably ask the author of such an article 'How can you live with yourself knowing that black Americans suffer massively higher incarceration rates, commit violent crimes at a massively higher rate (usually making black Americans their victims), that black Americans kill some 20 black Americans a day in cities across the country, face higher illiteracy rates, poverty rates, school dropout rates, teen pregnancy rates, etc and YOU....YOU couldnt give a **** about that, but are completely twisted over a statue you probably have never seen in your life?

Yeah...I'm pretty sure my response to the author of that article and sentiment would be to ask her what the **** is wrong with HER.

But thats just me.
 
AlbqOwl said:
It has been happening for some time. There have always been people who thought the President was terrible for as long I can remember and that goes back many presidential administrations. But it began to solidify and intensify during the Vietnam War. And it has intensified ever since, coming to a head under President Bush 43 and going on steroids when President Trump was elected. Bush was the illegitimate President, remember?--selected, not elected. That was intolerable to the left.

And President Trump was not supposed to happen at all. They said he wouldn't run. They said he would quit. They said he wouldn't win a single primary. They said he wouldn't win the nomination. They said he couldn't be elected. He exposed the bias and unreliability of the media, and all the hatefulness and selective prejudices of the left even as he himself was no partisan, no ideologue, not bound to any political mantra. They set out to destroy him and probably won't give up on that as long as he is in office.

They can't attack his agenda without looking like idiots. So the only ammo they have to use against him is to attack him personally by declaring him racist, sexist, homophobic, mentally unbalanced, an idiot, and all the other adjectives they come up with to describe him. And the latest tactic is to tie him in with the white supremacists. It is hateful. It is dishonest. And if good people don't resist that, it could be very dangerous to America as we know it.
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Yeah the whole Vietnam thing was pretty bad on my family, having several great uncles, and a grand father that served as well. The whole deal they got when they got back from duty was a bit more then I would like to wish on anyone. I've even gotten some sharp treatment from serving under Bush Jr, it was possibly the most ambivalent feelings I've ever gotten from a job in my life.

At this point I believe people are just shouting everything to such a degree they are believing it themselves, or they are so invested in this act that they don't want to be proven wrong. I cannot even begin to count the amount of times I have asked for citations on here on whether this person was a Nazi, or this policy was created for racist reasons. I am currently in a discussion with several others on Charlottesville (again) about the man firing his warning shots at the counter-protestors. Not to mention they keep tell me that the Antifa protestors should be considered hero's.

Many of these people are just either failing to see reason, or are fighting it out of some misplaced sense of moral entitlement. I admit that I can feel the same way, but if I ask for evidence to the contrary, and you fail to supply it. Instead just calling me a bigoted trumpette, or some of the same stupid titles that they have invented in the past few months. It really does not help anyone to act as such in the least.

(as a side note, it is good to actually have a real conversation for once, thx)
 
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