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Seattle's Minimum Wage Hike Hurts Low-Income Workers

You are aware that Reagan was among the biggest buffoons that ever sat as prez. You are also aware that he was a war criminal and terrorist.

The second-greatest POTUS of the 20th century, after only FDR. Cold War victory and the foundation for a generation of prosperity.
 
The second-greatest POTUS of the 20th century, after only FDR. Cold War victory and the foundation for a generation of prosperity.

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

1. Do you deny that he was a war criminal?

2. Do you deny that Reagan was a terrorist, responsible for the US being the only nation ever convicted of international terrorism?

3. Do you deny that Reagan ran one of the most corrupt administrations in US history?

4. Do you deny that Reagan was a dunce?
 
The second-greatest POTUS of the 20th century, after only FDR. Cold War victory and the foundation for a generation of prosperity.

Aren't you revealing that you are a partisan hack whose words have to be taken with a day's production from a salt mine?
 
Some basic facts.

1-Anyone that thinks there is a finite amount of wealth and that the rich are getting rich by stealing the poor peoples pennies in a wealth redistribution scam is a bona fide moron.
2-Anyone that thinks the path to upward mobility or economic success is found through minimum wage jobs is also certifiably a moron.
 
Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

1. Do you deny that he was a war criminal?

2. Do you deny that Reagan was a terrorist, responsible for the US being the only nation ever convicted of international terrorism?

3. Do you deny that Reagan ran one of the most corrupt administrations in US history?

4. Do you deny that Reagan was a dunce?

Yes to all.
 
I'm not the partisan hack in this exchange.

I haven't disagreed with the findings in the article you posted. I only pointed out the "no peer review". You are the one that illustrated your rank partisanship by attempting to defend a war criminal/terrorist/felon/dolt/... .
 
I haven't disagreed with the findings in the article you posted. I only pointed out the "no peer review". You are the one that illustrated your rank partisanship by attempting to defend a war criminal/terrorist/felon/dolt/... .

Introducing an extraneous topic into the thread is hijacking. That's all you.
 
Introducing an extraneous topic into the thread is hijacking. That's all you.

It wasn't extraneous, it was designed to let the reader know that you are not dealing with this topic in an even handed manner. And it did that, did it not?
 
I think this thread is just hilarious. The OP offered a well-reasoned argument, explaining why the Seattle minimum wage hike is troublesome. He pre-empted the obvious rebuttal by introducing the Berkley study, pointing out it was a sham that was based off of very general data and performed with great bias.

In response to the OP, the resident liberals/progressives have pretty much resorted to ad homs and denial. Let's see, by increasing the min wage, low wage earners will take home less money, but on the flip side, less people will be employed... so $15 min wage is great and f-u to anyone who opposes the progressive orthodoxy.

If you are a progressive and you are looking for ways to help low-wage/unskilled workers, that is fine. Perhaps, though, take the research and come to the conclusion that arbitrarily raising the minimum wage may simply not be the way to help you achieve your goals. It does not mean there is anything wrong with your goal, it just implies that the means you have chosen to get there are not the best. There is no need to lash out at the OP for bringing this up. There is no need to cast blame or be made. Its just math/economics. I'd say, learn and move on.
 
You are aware that Reagan was among the biggest buffoons that ever sat as prez. You are also aware that he was a war criminal and terrorist.

No he wasn't, not at all. Only mouthfoaming hate-filled, ignorant leftwingers think that.
 
This is not a surprising result. If workers cost more then employers will hire fewer of them.


  • Low-income workers hurt by pay hike
    [/LIST

    [COLOR=#111111FONT=Georgia]When Seattle officials voted three years ago to incrementally boost the city's minimum wage up to $15 an hour, they'd hoped to improve the lives of low-income workers. Yet according to a major new study that could force economists to reassess past research on the issue, the hike has had the opposite effect.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#111111FONT=Georgia]The city is gradually increasing the hourly minimum to $15 over several years. Already, though, some employers have not been able to afford the increased minimums. They've cut their payrolls, putting off new hiring, reducing hours or letting their workers go, the study found.[/FONT/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#111111FONT=Georgia]The costs to low-wage workers in Seattle outweighed the benefits by a ratio of three to one, according to the study, conducted by a group of economists at the University of Washington who were commissioned by the city. The study, published as a working paper Monday by the National Bureau of Economic Research, has not yet been peer reviewed.On the whole, the study estimates, the average low-wage worker in the city lost $125 a month because of the hike in the minimum.
    [/FONT[/COLORCOLOR=#111111]The paper's conclusions contradict years of research on the minimum wage. Many past studies, by contrast, have found that the benefits of increases for low-wage workers exceed the costs in terms of reduced employment -- often by a factor of four or five to one.
    "This strikes me as a study that is likely to influence people," said David Autor, an economist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who was not involved in the research. He called the work "very credible" and "sufficiently compelling in its design and statistical power that it can change minds." . . . [/FONT/COLOR]






  • You know you can use the quote function, so you dont have to set custom fonts and colors and lists in your post?

    As to the topic, Im curious about inflation. Raising the wage should have some affect on prices, more so if they werent cutting hours to offset it. ABC Widgets suddenly has to spend more in wages, then they need to increase the price of their products, which employees of other companies then have to pay more for, thus negating the wage hike.
 
You know you can use the quote function, so you dont have to set custom fonts and colors and lists in your post?

As to the topic, Im curious about inflation. Raising the wage should have some affect on prices, more so if they werent cutting hours to offset it. ABC Widgets suddenly has to spend more in wages, then they need to increase the price of their products, which employees of other companies then have to pay more for, thus negating the wage hike.

I did use the quote function, with no custom fonts or colors.
 
Your typical conservative non-response tells everyone all they need to know.

You've proven nothing at all. Just posting some Democrat socialist rant is nothing but opinion.
 
You've proven nothing at all. Just posting some Democrat socialist rant is nothing but opinion.

Your typical conservative non-response tells everyone all they need to know.

"As the conversation turned to the American president, [Reagan] Thatcher looked at Carrington, tapped the side of her skull, and said: “Peter, there’s nothing there.”

By 1989 Reagan had left the White House, and the following year Mrs T was defenestrated from Downing Street. Not long after that, “Nico” Henderson was talking to Tony Benn, and said: “If I reported to you what Mrs Thatcher really thought about President Reagan, it would damage Anglo-American relations.”
 
This is not a surprising result. If workers cost more then employers will hire fewer of them.
...


That study is flawed.

This from an article in WaPo:

There could be another explanation for the results, however: the fact that large employers are not included. It could be that even if employers with only a single location cut payrolls, large firms expanded at the same time, giving low-wage workers other opportunities to earn money.

Other researchers have found that large employers are better able to raise wages in response to changes in the minimum. Liberal economists often argue workers have less bargaining power when negotiating their contracts at larger firms, and that as a result, employees at those companies are often underpaid in the absence of a wage floor.
"I think they underestimate hugely the wage gains, and they overestimate hugely the employment loss," said Michael Reich, an economist at the University of California, Berkeley who was part of a group that published its own study of the minimum wage in Seattle last week.
Reich's study uses more conventional methods in research on the minimum wage, relying on a publicly available federal survey. His group's data did not allow the researchers to distinguish between high- and low-wage workers at a given firm, but they were able to separate large firms' locations in Seattle from those outside the city.
Their results from the University of California accorded with past research. The minimum wage increased wages for workers in the restaurant industry, without reducing employment overall -- in contrast to the findings from the University of Washington.
"Their results are so out of the range," Reich said.
One way of explaining the disagreement could be that small businesses in Seattle have been forced to downsize in response to the increased minimum wage, while larger firms have expanded.
Yet when Vigdor and his colleagues examined the overall number of workers at small firms with a single location, they did not find that employment had decreased. That fact could could suggest that small businesses have responded to the increase not by downsizing but instead by hiring more experienced workers.
 
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That study is flawed.

This from an article in WaPo:

Your link was to the OP link. As pointed out earlier in the thread, the Berkeley study was a rush job of political first aid requested by Seattle's mayor when he learned his own researchers were about to turn in a negative assessment.
 
This is not a surprising result. If workers cost more then employers will hire fewer of them.

The methodology of this study has already been called into serious question even by people who normally would support your beliefs. People like yourself know nothing about science. I suggest you refrain from jumping to conclusions based on one crackpot study that hasn't even been peer reviewed yet.

Workers have an incredibly low elasticity of demand. There is a certain number of workers you NEED to run your business. It doesn't really matter how much they cost you simply cannot serve your customers without them. If you could, then you wouldn't hire them at all in the first place even at a lower wage.

Furthermore, increasing the wage of workers, increases the total demand for the market giving you even more customers to serve.

The reality is that we have raised the minimum wage in this country more than 20 times since the 1930's, and the negative effects that fools like you have been predicting have never actually come to pass. You can expect to find that additional studies on this subject prove this one study to be an outlier caused by bad data collection.
 
The methodology of this study has already been called into serious question even by people who normally would support your beliefs. People like yourself know nothing about science. I suggest you refrain from jumping to conclusions based on one crackpot study that hasn't even been peer reviewed yet.

Workers have an incredibly low elasticity of demand. There is a certain number of workers you NEED to run your business. It doesn't really matter how much they cost you simply cannot serve your customers without them. If you could, then you wouldn't hire them at all in the first place even at a lower wage.

Furthermore, increasing the wage of workers, increases the total demand for the market giving you even more customers to serve.

The reality is that we have raised the minimum wage in this country more than 20 times since the 1930's, and the negative effects that fools like you have been predicting have never actually come to pass. You can expect to find that additional studies on this subject prove this one study to be an outlier caused by bad data collection.

Ahem. Your ideology is showing. From the OP link:

"This strikes me as a study that is likely to influence people," said David Autor, an economist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who was not involved in the research. He called the work "very credible" and "sufficiently compelling in its design and statistical power that it can change minds."
 
Your typical conservative non-response tells everyone all they need to know.

"As the conversation turned to the American president, [Reagan] Thatcher looked at Carrington, tapped the side of her skull, and said: “Peter, there’s nothing there.”

By 1989 Reagan had left the White House, and the following year Mrs T was defenestrated from Downing Street. Not long after that, “Nico” Henderson was talking to Tony Benn, and said: “If I reported to you what Mrs Thatcher really thought about President Reagan, it would damage Anglo-American relations.”

I created a new thread (Reagan and Thatcher) in the History subforum just for you. I'm disappointed you haven't shown up.
 
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