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Thread: Stupid Over-Regulation in Oregon

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    Stupid Over-Regulation in Oregon

    This would be funny if it were not so sadly reminiscent of 1984 and Brave New World. One can only hope the author is right and these over-zealous regulators will be publicly slapped down.

    Oregon is suing engineers for . . . speaking up about engineering?


    A man is fined $500 for sharing his opinion, or what the state calls practicing engineering without a license.







    Beginning this week, Washington hopes that infrastructure, which is a product of civil engineering, will be much discussed. But if you find yourself in Oregon, keep your opinions to yourself, lest you get fined $500 for practicing engineering without a license. This happened to Mats Jarlstrom as a result of events that would be comic if they were not symptoms of something sinister.
    Jarlstrom’s troubles began when his wife got a $150 red-light-camera ticket. He became interested in the timing of traffic lights and decided there was something wrong with the formula used in Oregon and elsewhere to time how long traffic lights stay yellow as they transition from green to red. He began thinking, Googling, corresponding and — here he made his big mistake — talking about this subject. He has ignored repeated demands by the Oregon State Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying that he pipe down. So the board considers him to be, like Jesse James, Al Capone and John Dillinger, a dangerous recidivist.
    Not that it should matter, but Jarlstrom actually is an engineer. He has a degree in electrical engineering, served in a technical capacity in the Swedish air force and worked for Sweden’s Luxor Electronics before immigrating to the United States in 1992. He is, however, not licensed by Oregon to “practice engineering” — design skyscrapers, bridges, etc. — so, according to the board, he should not be allowed to talk about engineering or even call himself an engineer. Only those the board licenses are admitted to the clerisy uniquely entitled to publicly discuss engineering. . . .
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Stupid Over-Regulation in Oregon

    This thread has more to do with constitutional law than it does about over regulation.

    Based upon the fact-pattern described above, the authority to fine someone for "speaking engineering" is unconstitutionally vague. A state may not bar a person from speaking, under the First Amendment. A state has the right to decide that a person without an engineering license cannot accept a fee for services for practicing engineering.

    The law/rule is unconstitutionally vague, under the Fourteenth Amendment, because it is open-ended without boundaries and therefore leads to arbitrary prosecutions and lack of due process.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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    Re: Stupid Over-Regulation in Oregon

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    This thread has more to do with constitutional law than it does about over regulation.

    Based upon the fact-pattern described above, the authority to fine someone for "speaking engineering" is unconstitutionally vague. A state may not bar a person from speaking, under the First Amendment. A state has the right to decide that a person without an engineering license cannot accept a fee for services for practicing engineering.

    The law/rule is unconstitutionally vague, under the Fourteenth Amendment, because it is open-ended without boundaries and therefore leads to arbitrary prosecutions and lack of due process.
    The individual in this case is an engineer.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Stupid Over-Regulation in Oregon

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The individual in this case is an engineer.
    Not unless the state says so, apparently. These days you can't make a cup of coffee and officially call it coffee unless you have the proper coffee certification. This whole certification frenzy is an attempt to make exclusive domains out of ordinary professions.

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    Re: Stupid Over-Regulation in Oregon

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The individual in this case is an engineer.
    According to the article, he wasn't licensed in the state.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

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    Re: Stupid Over-Regulation in Oregon

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The individual in this case is an engineer.
    I don't get it. Are you saying the state shouldn't license engineers?
    "How do I know what I think 'till I hear what I say?"
    -DJ Trump-

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    Re: Stupid Over-Regulation in Oregon

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    .....
    I presume that since your thread refers to over regulation, that is an admission that at least some regulation is in fact necessary and a good thing?

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    Re: Stupid Over-Regulation in Oregon

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    According to the article, he wasn't licensed in the state.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    I don't get it. Are you saying the state shouldn't license engineers?
    He was fined for talking about an engineering topic. The First Amendment doesn't require a license. To claim otherwise is definitely over-regulation.
    Last edited by Jack Hays; 06-08-17 at 02:25 PM.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Stupid Over-Regulation in Oregon

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWonka View Post
    I presume that since your thread refers to over regulation, that is an admission that at least some regulation is in fact necessary and a good thing?
    Most such licensing is just a way to restrict entry into a profession for the benefit of those already in.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Stupid Over-Regulation in Oregon

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    I don't get it. Are you saying the state shouldn't license engineers?
    I don't see any legitimate state role beyond authenticating their claimed educational credentials.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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