- Joined
- Mar 9, 2017
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It's interesting that you choose that wording, "moral superiority," because morality is subjective.
Let me ask you a question I've asked others here -- but no one has had the guts to answer -- perhaps you'll humor me.
Suppose you have a young daughter and a kidnapper buried her in a box only big enough for her to have enough oxygen to sustain her for, say, 24 hours. The cops catch the kidnapper but he refuses to tell them the location of your child. Would you want to torture him? Or, would you let the hours tick by and let your daughter die?
You see, there is nothing moral about treating your enemy well, when the result of that treatment is the death of your own.
Torture for torture's sake, of course, is unethical. Then, it's just a desire to torture and that says more about the person doing the torturing than anything else. But, if you have a chance to glean information that saves the lives of your family (or countrymen), how ethical is it to allow them to perish because you're focused only on one side of the moral equation?
You assumed the sale too early with the daughter tactic. I've already said here that maintaining my humanity is worth whatever cost. I'm a Christian, so in my mind it's not just this life's loves and comforts I'm protecting. No matter how you spin it, there is no moral justification for torture, regardless of what your morals look like.
Worse, it's ineffective, and not all information gotten from torture tactics are as quickly vetted as "where is my daughter buried". (I have a son and no daughter, so I'm gonna switch from here on out). A person will say anything if you hurt them long enough. That's about as reliable as a Magic 8 Ball, and you've lost your soul in the process...
Nah, Howie, there is no way you are going to emotion me into saying that torture is justified. If I was presented with that scenario, where I had to engage in torture to save my son, I can't say that I wouldn't have a very human reaction and resort to whatever it takes in a moment of weakness...I can't say I wouldn't reach across the table and push in the guy's Adam's apple with my thumbs until he ran out of oxygen permanently, if given the opportunity. But I would be wrong, and it would be a decision I would regret all the rest of my life. Which is why the family of victims are not permitted to interrogate suspects, but rather professionals are used.
Nope...sorry. Torture is an affront to all that makes us human, and I think the vast majority of people, if ever forced to witness a suspect be tortured, would feel incredible discomfort, attempt to help, and be a strong advocate against torture going forward. All this talk about our enemy this and our enemy that is very tough sounding, but is without a footing in reality. The only ones that would really speak up for torture from a place of real understanding are either so brain washed and desensitized that they have somehow, temporarily or permanently, lost track of their humanity, or they are psychopaths who never had any to begin with.
Hopefully this is me rising to the occasion to answer your question again... Now, let me ask you one.
I don't know your age, so I'll with if your brother or sister, or son or daughter, were in the military, were captured by enemy, and were tortured extensively, would you be ok with that? Would you say "Well, they were probably concerned about their own folks, so that's why my loved one was tortured, no harm, no foul, it's war"?
And if your loved one came home, but was never the same, would that be ok because it was war and torture happens? What if they died while being tortured? Would you be ok that their last days were spent in pure agony and terror? The hours spent in an on again / off again pendulum of hope and despair, matching the beginning and end of each torture session? The purgatory spent in a cell, wondering when your next brush with Hell was going to come? Would you look at that enemy, who was perpetrating this abuse on your loved one, and say "look, it's ok, I know you have to do this, and I admire you for the strength it must take to do this to my loved one, I'm sure that it is justified because you are only trying to save your own people, so carry on"?
Do you think anyone should engage in torture? If it's justifiable for America, it is justifiable for Korea or Syria or Iran or anywhere else. I'm not saying it's not happening in those places, but by standing up for torture here, you're standing up for it there. Is this actually what you want me to take away from our conversation?