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Supporting the war on terror

Tigerace117 said:
So we should just let ISIS take over Iraq and Syria? Why?

Not really sure how launching strikes on a Syrian Air Force base will "spawn more terrorists" either.
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We seem to have bombed the Japanese superior race bushido out of them...
 
Bodhisattva said:
The War Powers Act allows the President to use the military in any way he sees fit for up to sixty days without congessional approval... and you just want to pout. You keep changing the debate line or they are merely red herrings in the first pkace. :roll:
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Haven't changed the debate lines at all, my point, this whole time is that you can't destroy radical Islam because it is an idea. You can't bomb an idea.
 
DashingAmerican said:
Not our problem if two countries can't keep an organization from taking over.

The same way that bombing terrorist groups gives rise to more terrorists...

I'll ask again, how long do you thing it's going to take to bomb an idea into nonexistence?
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It is entirely our problem. Allowing terrorists a safe haven will only lead to more American deaths. While you may be fine with those deaths, no one else is.

So in other words you don't know but you are knee jerk against the strikes in Syria.

It depends. Nazism isn't dead, but it is pretty much irrelevant. It took a lot of bombs to put that ideology in the ground.
 
Bodhisattva said:
The War Powers Act allows the President to use the military in any way he sees fit for up to sixty days without congessional approval... and you just want to pout. You keep changing the debate line or they are merely red herrings in the first pkace. :roll:
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That is true. The president didn't reach out and take Constitutional power from Congress. They willingly gave it up.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Because unlike our enemies we don't butcher innocent civillians for the sake of butchering innocent civilians.
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We've killed thousands of innocent civilians in the name of war on terror.
 
DashingAmerican said:
Haven't changed the debate lines at all, my point, this whole time is that you can't destroy radical Islam because it is an idea. You can't bomb an idea.
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You brought up the KKK to make a point then changed it...

So, why haven't we just dropped a nuke yet?
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Japan was ready and willing to surrender prior to the nukes...but that isn't the point. We bombed them... as well as the Germans, Ottomans, etc. Into surrendering.
 
Tigerace117 said:
True. Same with Nazism.
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Yep. Bombed the hell out of them. The surrendered.

Tigerace117 said:
Because unlike our enemies we don't butcher innocent civillians for the sake of butchering innocent civilians.
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True. In fact we dont bomb at times in order to not harm innocent people.

Dittohead not! said:
That is true. The president didn't reach out and take Constitutional power from Congress. They willingly gave it up.
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Exactly...
 
Bodhisattva said:
You brought up the KKK to make a point then changed it...



Japan was ready and willing to surrender prior to the nukes...but that isn't the point. We bombed them... as well as the Germans, Ottomans, etc. Into surrendering.
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Difference is, they are countries, terrorism is not. Are we going to bomb the entire middle east until there's nothing left?
 
DashingAmerican said:
We've killed thousands of innocent civilians in the name of war on terror.
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Do you do that purposely? He said we dont butcher innocent people on purpose.
 
DashingAmerican said:
Difference is, they are countries, terrorism is not. Are we going to bomb the entire middle east until there's nothing left?
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You keep whining about bombing as a solution. What is your solution to protecting ourselves from people that not only want to... but actively do kill us and will continue to do so until we are all Muslims or dead? Hmmm....?
 
I'm not whining, I'm just pointing out the fallacy that you can bomb a group of people and not the country. Wasn't aware we were at war with Islam, thought it was terrorism.
 
DashingAmerican said:
Do you support the war on terror? Why or why not?

I think radical Islam is an idea and ideas are bulletproof.

Every time we bomb a country or town, we create more, very much in a hyrda-like effect, cut one head off and two sprout.
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Yes, I do.

And funny, but can you provide any kind of proof to that claim? Because by following that logic, our actions in WWII would have turned most of Europe into Fascists. And we did not see that at all.

What we are dealing with in many ways is very similar to Fascism, except the indoctrination is not for a "master race", but for a philosophy. And it is a philosophy that most of Islam rejects. But as they enlarge the area they control, they are then able to indoctrinate more and more into that philosophy.

As for the expansion we have seen, I think it is much more likely a case of Stockholm Syndrome than true conversion. You take a few dozen people and line them up in a town square then execute them brutally, of course you are going to get a segment of the spectators to go along. Either the pathological who revel in that kind of bloodbath and want to take part in it themselves, or the majority who simply want to play along and live because they do not want to be the next ones in the square.

But let's look at it the other way, what do you propose the response is? Do nothing? Ignore what ISIS is doing and hope that it will go away by singing Kumbaya at them over and over again?
 
DashingAmerican said:
We've killed thousands of innocent civilians in the name of war on terror.
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Ah, but 1) none of those deaths was intentional or the objective of the operations and 2) none of those who are constantly talking about the civillian causulties ever seem to care about said causulties when the US is not involved.
 
Bodhisattva said:
We seem to have bombed the Japanese superior race bushido out of them...
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No, not really. We just rechanneled that passion into another area.

One thing about the Japanese spirit, it is highly competitive. That was the case in the early-mid 20th century when they thought they were competing for an enlarging empire, it is true today where they are competing on the world of International Commerce.

Look at any Japanese Corporate videos. In watching them, realize that they are doing the exact same things that their grandfathers did. All wearing the same uniforms, all conforming as best they could to what was expected, all chanting slogans that they are the best and will not be defeated. All working as hard as they can to produce the best quality products they can, even if it kills them to do so.

Hell, ritual suicide for failure to get into the right college or to get a promotion or making a business mistake is still widely acceptable in Japan.

Bushido is still alive and well in Japan, it is just channeled into business expansion rather than land expansion.
 
DashingAmerican said:
Do you support the war on terror? Why or why not?

I think radical Islam is an idea and ideas are bulletproof.

Every time we bomb a country or town, we create more, very much in a hyrda-like effect, cut one head off and two sprout.
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The war on terror is a good cause, it is not the cause but the means I disagree with. One is not using the coin strategy developed by petraeus, which was how iraq turned around, and his coin was really simple, to minimize civilian casualties so terrorists could not use it to fuel propoganda to recruit more.

Our other problem is the support of saudi arabia, and the sunni world in general. Saudi arabia is the biggest exporter of extremism, and their counter in the region is shia islam, yet we seem to focus on wiping out the few shia countries, Iran and Syria, in favor of saudi arabia. However the shia stand as a roadblock to sunni extremism, let them fight it out, rather than focusing on the only force stopping them.

The shia thing though is hit or miss though even with us policy, we oppose shia regimes yet under bush backed shia in iraq who were the majority, then pivoted towards sunni under obama. In yemen we seem to focus on al quaeda who is sunni while ignoring the houthis who are shia, while saudi ignores al quaeda and solely attacks the shia houthis.

It is a big quagmire where our goal should be to attack only the heaviest terrorist groups, while letting saudi and iran fight out their own proxy wars, rather than getting involved.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Yes, I do.

And funny, but can you provide any kind of proof to that claim? Because by following that logic, our actions in WWII would have turned most of Europe into Fascists. And we did not see that at all.

What we are dealing with in many ways is very similar to Fascism, except the indoctrination is not for a "master race", but for a philosophy. And it is a philosophy that most of Islam rejects. But as they enlarge the area they control, they are then able to indoctrinate more and more into that philosophy.

As for the expansion we have seen, I think it is much more likely a case of Stockholm Syndrome than true conversion. You take a few dozen people and line them up in a town square then execute them brutally, of course you are going to get a segment of the spectators to go along. Either the pathological who revel in that kind of bloodbath and want to take part in it themselves, or the majority who simply want to play along and live because they do not want to be the next ones in the square.

But let's look at it the other way, what do you propose the response is? Do nothing? Ignore what ISIS is doing and hope that it will go away by singing Kumbaya at them over and over again?
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I would quit funding any Middle East countries. And would take care of whoever is funding and or selling weapons to them in the first place.
 
Oozlefinch said:
No, not really. We just rechanneled that passion into another area.

One thing about the Japanese spirit, it is highly competitive. That was the case in the early-mid 20th century when they thought they were competing for an enlarging empire, it is true today where they are competing on the world of International Commerce.

Look at any Japanese Corporate videos. In watching them, realize that they are doing the exact same things that their grandfathers did. All wearing the same uniforms, all conforming as best they could to what was expected, all chanting slogans that they are the best and will not be defeated. All working as hard as they can to produce the best quality products they can, even if it kills them to do so.

Hell, ritual suicide for failure to get into the right college or to get a promotion or making a business mistake is still widely acceptable in Japan.

Bushido is still alive and well in Japan, it is just channeled into business expansion rather than land expansion.
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I know. The point was that we stopped them from killing innocent people by bombing them into submission. Just what dashingamerican says is impossible.
 
Dittohead not! said:
I'm sure that's a great comfort to the surviving friends and family.
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I doubt it is... but then again i dont give a **** what terrorists family membrrs feel.
 
DashingAmerican said:
I'm not whining, I'm just pointing out the fallacy that you can bomb a group of people and not the country. Wasn't aware we were at war with Islam, thought it was terrorism.
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You are doing it again. Straw Man. We are talking about bombing terrorists... not Islam or Islamic countries. Bombing a country is a direct effort to target the government. I already explained this. ISIS is not the government. In fact... governments want them gone too... no government in the world wants Al Quada or ISIS in their country. No stable govrrnment anyway.
 
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