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David Crosby: Prison, not rehab, cured him

RobertU

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This morning, July 18, on Amanpour & Co. on PBS, music icon David Crosby spoke of his travails with drug addiction. He said his several trips to rehab didn’t work. The only thing that cured him was the horrible time he spent in a Texas prison.

That seems to contradict the progressive narrative that drug addiction is a disease that should be treated, not punished.
 
This morning, July 18, on Amanpour & Co. on PBS, music icon David Crosby spoke of his travails with drug addiction. He said his several trips to rehab didn’t work. The only thing that cured him was the horrible time he spent in a Texas prison.

That seems to contradict the progressive narrative that drug addiction is a disease that should be treated, not punished.

One person's story does not represent the majority. THEre are exceptions to everything. Of course, dishonest conservatives hear things they don't like,they seek out the exceptions and pretend that represents all. You are also talking about a rock star, did he even really want to get clean? It's also hard to do when you are in that industry.

Additionally, facts don't support your position. Throwing people in jail for abusing drugs does nothing. Recitivism is bad. And in fact, they can get drugs while in prison. Some people may go in clean and come out addicts. Jail should be a 3 strikes policy after failed attempts to actually rehabilitate. But even then, rehabilitation needs the person to want to be clean, being forced into rehab as punishment might not help. But having the highest rate of imprisonment in the industrialized world in the "Land of the Free" is appalling

Plus, Crosby could go to jail and not have his career ruined with a felony conviction, since music is his job. Most people have felony records can't get jobs, can't rent particular places, etc. VEry easy to slip back into crime or addiction when you are struggling
 
Is providing drug abuse treatment to offenders worth the financial investment?

"In 2007, it was estimated that the cost to society of drug abuse was $193 billion (National Drug Intelligence Center [NDIC], 2011), a substantial portion of which—$113 billion—is associated with drugrelated crime, including criminal justice system costs and costs borne by victims of crime. The cost of treating drug abuse (including health costs, hospitalizations, and government specialty treatment) was estimated to be $14.6 billion, a fraction of these overall societal costs (NDIC, 2011). Drug abuse treatment is cost effective in reducing drug use and bringing about related savings in health care. Treatment also consistently has been shown to reduce the costs associated with lost productivity, crime, and incarceration across various settings and populations. The largest economic benefit of treatment is seen in avoided costs of crime (incarceration and victimization costs)."
 
This morning, July 18, on Amanpour & Co. on PBS, music icon David Crosby spoke of his travails with drug addiction. He said his several trips to rehab didn’t work. The only thing that cured him was the horrible time he spent in a Texas prison.

That seems to contradict the progressive narrative that drug addiction is a disease that should be treated, not punished.
Since when does the word of David Crosby mean anything to conservatives?

I know lots of people who were jailed who have told me that jail made their mental state to combat their addiction worse. There are many drug addicts who have killed themselves in lock-up, so how does your hypothesis account for those people?

We've locked up millions and million of drug addicts, who came out after their time either the same or worse, so clearly incarceration doesn't work to treat mental illness.

Let's bring back bloodletting!

 
This morning, July 18, on Amanpour & Co. on PBS, music icon David Crosby spoke of his travails with drug addiction. He said his several trips to rehab didn’t work. The only thing that cured him was the horrible time he spent in a Texas prison.

That seems to contradict the progressive narrative that drug addiction is a disease that should be treated, not punished.

That and he is in his 70’s. I hear opioid addicts burn out on their own later in life and stop using.
 
Is providing drug abuse treatment to offenders worth the financial investment?

"In 2007, it was estimated that the cost to society of drug abuse was $193 billion (National Drug Intelligence Center [NDIC], 2011), a substantial portion of which—$113 billion—is associated with drugrelated crime, including criminal justice system costs and costs borne by victims of crime. The cost of treating drug abuse (including health costs, hospitalizations, and government specialty treatment) was estimated to be $14.6 billion, a fraction of these overall societal costs (NDIC, 2011). Drug abuse treatment is cost effective in reducing drug use and bringing about related savings in health care. Treatment also consistently has been shown to reduce the costs associated with lost productivity, crime, and incarceration across various settings and populations. The largest economic benefit of treatment is seen in avoided costs of crime (incarceration and victimization costs)."

Another benefit is that more addicts survive to become contributing members of society. 5 years is about the average period of addiction. If addicts are able to get drugs, and support through this period, they are usually able to turn their lives around.
 
Another benefit is that more addicts survive to become contributing members of society. 5 years is about the average period of addiction. If addicts are able to get drugs, and support through this period, they are usually able to turn their lives around.

Where do you get that? I've never known alcoholics to burn out and stop drinking after 5 years. I've heard a few people give up being an alcoholic, but very few. Most are alcoholics until it finally kills them.
 
Now for the statistics:

• Inpatient treatment costs $3,200 on average. 73% of addicts complete treatment and 21% remain sober after five years.
• Residential treatment costs $3,100 on average. 51% of addicts complete treatment and 21% remain sober after five years.
• Detox costs $2,200 on average. 33% of addicts complete treatment and 17% remain sober after five years.
• Outpatient drug-free treatments cost $1,200 on average. 43% of addicts complete treatment and 18% remain sober after five years.

Source: Drug Rehab Success Rates: Does Rehab Really Work? - The Recovery Village

Rehab success rates from 17 percent to 21 percent. Doesn’t sound very successful to me.
 
This morning, July 18, on Amanpour & Co. on PBS, music icon David Crosby spoke of his travails with drug addiction. He said his several trips to rehab didn’t work. The only thing that cured him was the horrible time he spent in a Texas prison.

That seems to contradict the progressive narrative that drug addiction is a disease that should be treated, not punished.


I have read his autobiography, he has claimed that all along. He could have kilos delivered to him in rehab. He had no desire to quite until he had no choice.

It's amazing that guys alive...
 
This morning, July 18, on Amanpour & Co. on PBS, music icon David Crosby spoke of his travails with drug addiction. He said his several trips to rehab didn’t work. The only thing that cured him was the horrible time he spent in a Texas prison.

That seems to contradict the progressive narrative that drug addiction is a disease that should be treated, not punished.

Not at all, it seems to reinforce the fact that when famous people go to rehab, it is much more difficult for normal rehab to take, AND many rehab counselors aren't equipped to deal with those types of people.
I say this as an addict who although not very famous myself, was in the employ of more than a few famous people and who has learned how differently they get treated IN rehab as compared to ordinary peons like myself.

The idea that just throwing people into prison will somehow magically work isn't well thought out at all, sorry.
The idea that it's not a disease is absurd. When you're an addict, it's not like you caught a germ or a virus.
But it is like you've acquired an autoimmune problem.

The part of your "mental" immune system that is supposed to deal with very poor decisions fails, and sometimes it can be a combination of both brain chemistry imbalance AND mental health issues. Addiction IS a mental health issue, therefore while it may not be a disease caused by germs or viruses, the mechanism that makes it operate mimics them very well.

Have you ever taken a look at the drug problem IN prisons?
The time has come for you to take a peek.

Last but not least, where on Earth did you get the idea that treatment for addiction is somehow a PROGRESSIVE NARRATIVE? Are you that desperate to disprove progressive values that you're searching for some kind of vindication?
It is neither a progressive NOR conservative narrative. It is a narrative formed by medical professionals.
 
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Now for the statistics:

• Inpatient treatment costs $3,200 on average. 73% of addicts complete treatment and 21% remain sober after five years.
• Residential treatment costs $3,100 on average. 51% of addicts complete treatment and 21% remain sober after five years.
• Detox costs $2,200 on average. 33% of addicts complete treatment and 17% remain sober after five years.
• Outpatient drug-free treatments cost $1,200 on average. 43% of addicts complete treatment and 18% remain sober after five years.

Source: Drug Rehab Success Rates: Does Rehab Really Work? - The Recovery Village

Rehab success rates from 17 percent to 21 percent. Doesn’t sound very successful to me.

How successful were you expecting it to be?

How successful are you expecting it to be in comparison to stiff prison sentences?
 
I have read his autobiography, he has claimed that all along. He could have kilos delivered to him in rehab. He had no desire to quite until he had no choice.

It's amazing that guys alive...

He could have had dope delivered to him in prison, too.
Trust me on that one.
 
People have to literally hit rock bottom before they wake up...that is jail/prison for some, rehab for others...
 
FFS it's as if conservatives have decided that anything that contradicts their hidebound beliefs (which aren't backed up facts or any kind of science) is suddenly now some evil liberal plot.

Congratulations, you people are now "reverse" Lysenkoists of the highest order. Carry on.
 
This morning, July 18, on Amanpour & Co. on PBS, music icon David Crosby spoke of his travails with drug addiction. He said his several trips to rehab didn’t work. The only thing that cured him was the horrible time he spent in a Texas prison.

That seems to contradict the progressive narrative that drug addiction is a disease that should be treated, not punished.

With that thinking why isn't alcoholism punished? So in your opinion one person's beliefs fits all? David crosby doesn't speak for everyone. I was a heroin addict for over twenty years. Never was convicted of any drug offense. I've been clean now for over thirty years with no jail time. So next time you speak with mr. crosby, tell him my story.
 
This morning, July 18, on Amanpour & Co. on PBS, music icon David Crosby spoke of his travails with drug addiction. He said his several trips to rehab didn’t work. The only thing that cured him was the horrible time he spent in a Texas prison.

That seems to contradict the progressive narrative that drug addiction is a disease that should be treated, not punished.

You seem to employ the tact of logical fallacy.
 
yeah, horrible Texas prisons sound like a great alternative to drug treatment programs. FFS.
 
America has a big problem with viewing the justice system as a punishment system. Justice is what makes it worth being a part of society. It's what justifies the very existence of society. Public safety (incarceration) and redemption (rehabilitation) are justice.

"We provide public safety, would you like to join our society?" We answer yes. "We provide opportunity for redemption, would you like to join our society?" We answer yes. "We provide punishment, would you like to join our society?" No, thanks.

Punishment does not justify the existence of society. It's not justice. That's looking at the justice system wrong.
 
People have to literally hit rock bottom before they wake up...that is jail/prison for some, rehab for others...

Thank you, that is it in a nutshell.
For me, rock bottom was a combination of things...like standing on the corner trying to sell a broken VCR for five bucks, while wearing clothes that hadn't seen a washing machine in three months, then offering to allow my place to be used as a spot for crack dealers to cook up large quantities of coke to make crack in exchange for getting "a piece broken off" so to speak, then having a marble table top broken over my head because a karate instructor turned crackhead decided it was okay for him to slap his girlfriend around in my apartment, and me getting arrested as a result while he walked out of my apartment with some of my valuables unmolested by the police.
The fight occurred just outside my door, hence I wasn't exercising my right to self defense as far as the cops were concerned.

They didn't believe my story because why would a karate instructor feel it necessary to hit someone with a chunk of marble if they were a martial artist. I was arrested for assault but it got bargained down to resisting arrest/disorderly conduct. Yes, I learned once again not to argue with the police if you're being arrested.
Simply put, Mister Martial Arts Instructor wasn't so deep into it yet that he looked and acted like a crackhead, whereas I looked and acted every bit the part, and I probably "smelled" like one, too.
And no, his girlfriend wasn't going to offer any exonerating or mitigating information, why would she? She didn't get arrested either of course, only me.

Thirty days in county jail, out in 14 on good behavior. For the first time in my addict years, the first thing I wanted was a decent toothbrush, not a chance to call my dealer. I wandered across the street to a small office building where there was an AA meeting I'd heard about before, and pretended to be an alcoholic instead of a crackhead, it's just a different flavor of poison anyway as far as I'm concerned.

I finally kicked about twenty-five years ago. I fell off the wagon a couple of times at first but the treatment "took" and stayed with me at last.
It was a really wonderful bunch of people at that AA group, and when a guy who became my sponsor finally learned that I was a crackhead, he told me to stay at AA, as his experience with Cocaine Anonymous was that "they don't know what they're doing, we do."

I took his word for it, plus I didn't have to sit through a lot of cocaine user "fish stories and urban legends", with the unintended consequence that would boil down to making me WANT MORE coke. Because I had to "filter" the alcohol stories, it forced me to confront the mechanism and my own personality.
There were drunks who were also addicts, to be sure, but they stuck to the AA narrative.
Yes, I know a lot of people don't believe in AA but it worked for me.

And I was never even a drunk, just a coke fiend.
 
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How successful were you expecting it to be?

How successful are you expecting it to be in comparison to stiff prison sentences?

If drug addiction is really an illness, then I expect the treatment success rate to be equivalent to the success rate for the treatment of other illnesses. I don't hear cardiology doctors or cancer centers bragging about their success rate of 20 percent.
 
If drug addiction is really an illness, then I expect the treatment success rate to be equivalent to the success rate for the treatment of other illnesses. I don't hear cardiology doctors or cancer centers bragging about their success rate of 20 percent.

How many people with primary progressive multiple sclerosis do you know who regain the ability to walk after being diagnosed as permanently paraplegic?
I don't care what you expect, you're not a doctor, or an addict, or a drug counselor.
 
Now for the statistics:

• Inpatient treatment costs $3,200 on average. 73% of addicts complete treatment and 21% remain sober after five years.
• Residential treatment costs $3,100 on average. 51% of addicts complete treatment and 21% remain sober after five years.
• Detox costs $2,200 on average. 33% of addicts complete treatment and 17% remain sober after five years.
• Outpatient drug-free treatments cost $1,200 on average. 43% of addicts complete treatment and 18% remain sober after five years.

Source: Drug Rehab Success Rates: Does Rehab Really Work? - The Recovery Village

Rehab success rates from 17 percent to 21 percent. Doesn’t sound very successful to me.

It's very successful, if you happen to own a few treatment centers. Successful business. For those who benefit from it, drug prohibition is the gift that keeps on giving.
 
If drug addiction is really an illness, then I expect the treatment success rate to be equivalent to the success rate for the treatment of other illnesses. I don't hear cardiology doctors or cancer centers bragging about their success rate of 20 percent.

Comorbidity: Substance Use Disorders and Other Mental Illnesses

"Many people who have a substance use disorder also develop other mental illnesses, just as many people who are diagnosed with mental illness are often diagnosed with a substance use disorder. For example, about half of people who experience a mental illness will also experience a substance use disorder at some point in their lives and vice versa.1,2 Few studies have been done on comorbidity in children, but those that have been conducted suggest that youth with substance use disorders also have high rates of co-occurring mental illness, such as depression and anxiety."

----------------------------------------------

Mental illnesses typically cannot be treated in the same tangilble ways that physical illnesses are treated. Most mental illnesses are not "cured," they are coped with and usually include a lifetime of medication and/or psychotherapy. The number of Americans on psychotropic drugs is staggering.
 
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