• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Our opioid crisis is not because of mexico - it's our fault

HumblePi

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
26,305
Reaction score
18,830
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Liberal
Tiny West Virginia Town Flooded With 3 Million Opioids During Drug Epidemic

Tiny West Virginia Town Flooded With 3 Million Opioids During Drug Epidemic

A major drug company shipped over 3 million prescription opioids to a single pharmacy in a tiny West Virginia town in the span of just 10 months, according to a congressional report released Wednesday detailing the drug epidemic there. McKesson Corp. supplied almost 10,000 hydrocodone pills daily to one now-closed pharmacy in Kermit, a town with only 400 residents, The Charleston Gazette-Mail reports. The pills were reportedly supplied even after the pharmacy was flagged for “suspect pill orders” in 2007. The report from the House Energy and Commerce Committee also concluded that McKesson and other drug distributors, like Cardinal Health and AmerisourceBergen, were shipping an “inordinate” number of pills to West Virginia, one of the states hit hardest by the opioid epidemic. The three distributors reportedly sent a total of “900 million hydrocodone and oxycodone pills” between 2005 and 2016, a period in which thousands of West Virginians fatally overdosed on prescription opioids. The congressional committee said the shipments were an example of “failures that contributed to the worsening of the opioid epidemic.” The committee also criticized the DEA for failing to prevent the massive shipments.

Report exposes drug distributor: WV town got millions of pills in 10 months | News | herald-dispatch.com

Report exposes drug distributor: WV town got millions of pills in 10 months

CHARLESTON - In just 10 months, the sixth-largest company in America shipped more than 3 million prescription opioids - nearly 10,000 pills a day on average - to a single pharmacy in a Southern West Virginia town with only 400 residents, according to a congressional report released this week.

McKesson Corp. supplied "massive quantities" of the painkiller hydrocodone to the now-shuttered Sav-Rite Pharmacy in Kermit, even after an employee at the company's Ohio drug warehouse flagged the suspect pill orders in 2007, the report found. That year, McKesson - ranked sixth in the Fortune 500 - reviewed its customers, including Sav-Rite, and reported to the Drug Enforcement Administration that the purchases were "reasonable," according to the report.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you think this investigation turned up something unheard of or unusual, you'd be wrong. The exact same bust happened in Florida last year when Dr. Barry Schultz was sentenced to 157 years in prison for running a 'pain clinic' where he handed out oxycodone to 'patients' who stood outside in long lines every morning waiting for his clinic to open the door. dr. Schultz was earning $6,000 a day selling his drugs and Mallinckrodt, the pharmaceutical company that flooded Florida with hundreds of millions of oxycodone pills, paid a relatively small penalty.

Kermit, West Virginia, which is a town with 400 people residents has one main pharmacy and they ordered 3 million doses of the opioid hydrocodone, that averages out to 75,000 pills per resident. They even have a drive-through to collect them. This pharmacy sold them 5 million doses, in two years. The pharmacy does not have to plead guilty to crime or wrong doing because they have the option to to pay a 13 million dollar fine instead, and free to sell more and as much as they want to whoever they want. Then, the same company went under monitoring because of their wrong doing but, the monitoring was done by the company itself so of course they ignored their wrongdoing and got another fine this time 150 million dollar fine, but they gladly paid it again, to clean their record. 150 million dollars was 1/1000 of their profits that same years so they still got away with 999 times 150 million dollars and a clean record, no criminal files.

The DEA inspector was interviewed and said his hands are tied by the government. Companies are allowed to settle for 1/1000 of their profits even taxes are higher than that. Taxes are what 8% at most? The criminal fines are 0.01%. The problem starts and ends, with the government.

Where is the outrage?


 
1. Mexican cartels have switched from smuggling heroin to fentanyl made in China. The reason this change is killing so many Americans has to do with several factors.

• Fentanyl is a much more powerful opiate than oxycodone, Vicodin, heroin, or any of the traditional opiate drugs being produced by American pharmaceutical companies.

• Fentanyl from Mexico is being deceptively sold to Americans as something else; usually the cartels will mislabel fentanyl by pressing the powder into pills, by using a pill press. These pill presses have been available on Amazon, eBay, and Alibaba. The Mexican pills are made to look like legitimate American brand pills, mimicking the size and look of pills commonly prescribed, down to the distinctive number markings manufacturers use on their pills.

• When the Chinese fentanyl powder is pressed into a pill which resembles Vicodin, oxycodone, or Xanax, the user is essentially ingesting a lethal dose of a drug they thought was something else. Overdose and death occurs in minutes, if not treated in such instances. It's important to remember that many of the overdose deaths now include a user getting a Mexican counterfeit pill laced with deadly fentanyl, not the drug they were intending to take. This scenario is how the pop star Prince died.

2. While American pharmaceutical companies CLEARLY deserve the bulk share of blame for the opiate crisis, at least their products contain the correct medication, instead of a far deadlier drug disguised as something more benign. American pharmaceutical started this mess, particularly Purdue Pharma, which both created Oxycontin, and spend millions of dollars changing the medical industry's landscape, to operate on greed rather than an earnest attempt to treat illness. When American companies are allowed to essentially act as drug dealers wearing expensive suits, enjoying an air of respectability while being largely unaccountable to laws & morals, we end up with 70,000 dead Americans per year. It may be time to admit that our secular government's de facto religion is the worship of $$$.
 
Tiny West Virginia Town Flooded With 3 Million Opioids During Drug Epidemic

Tiny West Virginia Town Flooded With 3 Million Opioids During Drug Epidemic

A major drug company shipped over 3 million prescription opioids to a single pharmacy in a tiny West Virginia town in the span of just 10 months, according to a congressional report released Wednesday detailing the drug epidemic there. McKesson Corp. supplied almost 10,000 hydrocodone pills daily to one now-closed pharmacy in Kermit, a town with only 400 residents, The Charleston Gazette-Mail reports. The pills were reportedly supplied even after the pharmacy was flagged for “suspect pill orders” in 2007. The report from the House Energy and Commerce Committee also concluded that McKesson and other drug distributors, like Cardinal Health and AmerisourceBergen, were shipping an “inordinate” number of pills to West Virginia, one of the states hit hardest by the opioid epidemic. The three distributors reportedly sent a total of “900 million hydrocodone and oxycodone pills” between 2005 and 2016, a period in which thousands of West Virginians fatally overdosed on prescription opioids. The congressional committee said the shipments were an example of “failures that contributed to the worsening of the opioid epidemic.” The committee also criticized the DEA for failing to prevent the massive shipments.

Report exposes drug distributor: WV town got millions of pills in 10 months | News | herald-dispatch.com

Report exposes drug distributor: WV town got millions of pills in 10 months

CHARLESTON - In just 10 months, the sixth-largest company in America shipped more than 3 million prescription opioids - nearly 10,000 pills a day on average - to a single pharmacy in a Southern West Virginia town with only 400 residents, according to a congressional report released this week.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you think this investigation turned up something unheard of or unusual, you'd be wrong. The exact same bust happened in Florida last year when Dr. Barry Schultz was sentenced to 157 years in prison for running a 'pain clinic' where he handed out oxycodone to 'patients' who stood outside in long lines every morning waiting for his clinic to open the door. dr. Schultz was earning $6,000 a day selling his drugs and Mallinckrodt, the pharmaceutical company that flooded Florida with hundreds of millions of oxycodone pills, paid a relatively small penalty.

Kermit, West Virginia, which is a town with 400 people residents has one main pharmacy and they ordered 3 million doses of the opioid hydrocodone, that averages out to 75,000 pills per resident. They even have a drive-through to collect them. This pharmacy sold them 5 million doses, in two years. The pharmacy does not have to plead guilty to crime or wrong doing because they have the option to to pay a 13 million dollar fine instead, and free to sell more and as much as they want to whoever they want. Then, the same company went under monitoring because of their wrong doing but, the monitoring was done by the company itself so of course they ignored their wrongdoing and got another fine this time 150 million dollar fine, but they gladly paid it again, to clean their record. 150 million dollars was 1/1000 of their profits that same years so they still got away with 999 times 150 million dollars and a clean record, no criminal files.

The DEA inspector was interviewed and said his hands are tied by the government. Companies are allowed to settle for 1/1000 of their profits even taxes are higher than that. Taxes are what 8% at most? The criminal fines are 0.01%. The problem starts and ends, with the government.

Where is the outrage?



Most of this was covered in detail by an excellent 60 Minutes piece several months ago or more, excellent journalism.

There is outrage, but aside from the 60 Minutes piece, none of it is displayed by the mainstream media, at least certainly not to the level of Russiagate and other BS conspiracy theories, official and unofficial.

Hopefully Purdue and the Sackler family will be heavily punished by the lawsuit working its way through the courts. It will likely be similar to what happened with Big Tobacco years ago.
 
Most of this was covered in detail by an excellent 60 Minutes piece several months ago or more, excellent journalism.

There is outrage, but aside from the 60 Minutes piece, none of it is displayed by the mainstream media, at least certainly not to the level of Russiagate and other BS conspiracy theories, official and unofficial.

Hopefully Purdue and the Sackler family will be heavily punished by the lawsuit working its way through the courts. It will likely be similar to what happened with Big Tobacco years ago.

Lawsuit? I say burn the Sackler family at the stake on the National Mall. They're responsible for hundreds of slow-motion 9/11s. We shouldn't be as kind to them as we were to Bin Laden.

Of course the media won't put this on the front page. Too busy raking in that sweet pharmaceutical ad revenue.
 
Lawsuit? I say burn the Sackler family at the stake on the National Mall. They're responsible for hundreds of slow-motion 9/11s. We shouldn't be as kind to them as we were to Bin Laden.

Of course the media won't put this on the front page. Too busy raking in that sweet pharmaceutical ad revenue.

Well I get your point, but in fairness even NYT has put Sackler and Purdue on their front page in a negative light.
 
Well I get your point, but in fairness even NYT has put Sackler and Purdue on their front page in a negative light.

Yeah, but how sustained was it? You have to compare these things. Compare the coverage of Chinese import health scares which kill a few to with their coverage of the Vioxx affair, which killed tens of thousands of Americans They even later reported on a 'mysterious' drops in death rates which directly coincided with the drug being taken off the market without mentioning the obvious cause, even though the drop in deaths was focused on older Americans suffering heart attacks and strokes. How much coverage did Vietnam get? Opioids are killing almost as many Americans every year. This should be the number one issue for the country, but it's decidedly in the background. It's not like there aren't countless captivating stories there; this stuff is riveting and heartbreaking; newsmen just prioritize other **** because pharma spends $5.2 billion annually on drug advertisements.
 
I suspect there are some that blame the suppliers of drugs for other peoples problems but our 'drug problem' is home grown and has been cultivated since the 60s.

FFS...we as a nation are clamoring for the opportunity to legalize weed (dont get me wrong..Im for legalization also...but not so I can get high). We consume alcohol like our genetic code needs it. As a nation we have approx 60% of our population on some form of pain medications with approx 50% on or having been on psychotropics. We have plenty of doctors willing to push pain pills to people that 'need' them (and not JUST because big pharm dropped free fishing excursion tickets on them to push the drugs, but also because the patients that come into their office often are such pains in the ass that they wont leave until the doctor prescribes them what they want). Coke...heroin...meth...synthetics in their different forms...if it can be snorted, injected, inhaled, or butt chugged, people in this country are doing it.

You can blame big pharm. You can blame the dealers. But lord knows we cant blame the people that are going out of their way to get themselves hooked into this ****. That would be like holding people responsible and avoiding responsible is probably the only thing people in this country do better then getting high.
 
Yeah, but how sustained was it? You have to compare these things. Compare the coverage of Chinese import health scares which kill a few to with their coverage of the Vioxx affair, which killed tens of thousands of Americans They even later reported on a 'mysterious' drops in death rates which directly coincided with the drug being taken off the market without mentioning the obvious cause, even though the drop in deaths was focused on older Americans suffering heart attacks and strokes. How much coverage did Vietnam get? Opioids are killing almost as many Americans every year. This should be the number one issue for the country, but it's decidedly in the background. It's not like there aren't countless captivating stories there; this stuff is riveting and heartbreaking; newsmen just prioritize other **** because pharma spends $5.2 billion annually on drug advertisements.

I agree with you. Coverage of overdose deaths does exist in the media, rather as sensational fear-mongering. I'm not trying to defend the media, but they do cover it, but seldom in the manner that 60 Minutes did.

I think the problem is that Big Pharma controls congress and the FDA. There have been a few scattered reports about that, but mostly by independent journalists like Sharyl Attkisson.

Until Congress steps up and gets down to business instead of the Russiagate BS, nothing meaningful is going to happen.

My position is that the opioids should be withdrawn from the market, by hook or by crook. If the corporations will not do it themselves (as Coca Cola did in 1912 just before Harrison) then the state should step in and do it by law.
 
I suspect there are some that blame the suppliers of drugs for other peoples problems but our 'drug problem' is home grown and has been cultivated since the 60s.

FFS...we as a nation are clamoring for the opportunity to legalize weed (dont get me wrong..Im for legalization also...but not so I can get high). We consume alcohol like our genetic code needs it. As a nation we have approx 60% of our population on some form of pain medications with approx 50% on or having been on psychotropics. We have plenty of doctors willing to push pain pills to people that 'need' them (and not JUST because big pharm dropped free fishing excursion tickets on them to push the drugs, but also because the patients that come into their office often are such pains in the ass that they wont leave until the doctor prescribes them what they want). Coke...heroin...meth...synthetics in their different forms...if it can be snorted, injected, inhaled, or butt chugged, people in this country are doing it.

You can blame big pharm. You can blame the dealers. But lord knows we cant blame the people that are going out of their way to get themselves hooked into this ****. That would be like holding people responsible and avoiding responsible is probably the only thing people in this country do better then getting high.

I don't disagree with you, but really, how much does "blame" really accomplish? As you mention, the species has this desire to "change its perception of reality", whether by alcohol or other substances. And other species besides humans show that same behavior. Are you tilting at windmills?

Rational public policy is what we need, AND what we totally lack.
 
I suspect there are some that blame the suppliers of drugs for other peoples problems but our 'drug problem' is home grown and has been cultivated since the 60s.

FFS...we as a nation are clamoring for the opportunity to legalize weed (dont get me wrong..Im for legalization also...but not so I can get high). We consume alcohol like our genetic code needs it. As a nation we have approx 60% of our population on some form of pain medications with approx 50% on or having been on psychotropics. We have plenty of doctors willing to push pain pills to people that 'need' them (and not JUST because big pharm dropped free fishing excursion tickets on them to push the drugs, but also because the patients that come into their office often are such pains in the ass that they wont leave until the doctor prescribes them what they want). Coke...heroin...meth...synthetics in their different forms...if it can be snorted, injected, inhaled, or butt chugged, people in this country are doing it.

You can blame big pharm. You can blame the dealers. But lord knows we cant blame the people that are going out of their way to get themselves hooked into this ****. That would be like holding people responsible and avoiding responsible is probably the only thing people in this country do better then getting high.

Those people badger doctors because they're already addicted. I've had doctors try to prescribe me Vicodin for stomach pain that I described as a 'four'. He just offered a prescription. If I wasn't well versed in this stuff and just listened to my doctor, I would have taken it. Once the prescription runs out, a lot of people are still addicted (opioids effectively rewire your brain), and since the pills themselves are expensive the poorer ones go in for a illicit kick. It's delusional to assume that people are these sovereign beings with a floating, abstract will which can at any moment intercede ab extra and correct course. Pharma companies push the doctors, the doctors push the drugs, and the pharma companies lie about how addictive the drugs are.

Q. So, they rewire the brain?

A. Yes. The junction between different cells, different neurons can become more or less effective with chronic treatment with opioids. Some connections are very much strengthened. Those might be the ones that are involved in the reward pathway. Other connections are weakened. Even cells that don't have the opioid receptors are affected because a neuron that has the opioid receptor has changed so much that there's an adaptive process in the non-opioid sensitive cells.

Q. What is the effect of that?

A. Overall, if people don't get the opioids they'll crave the opioids. That's one of the hallmarks of addiction. You're always looking for the drug.

Q. These changes in the brain – are they permanent?

A. They're very, very long lasting in some people. Some people have a propensity to become addictive and those changes can be very long lasting.
Source: Opioids rewire the brain, OHSU scientist says - oregonlive.com
 
Those people badger doctors because they're already addicted. I've had doctors try to prescribe me Vicodin for stomach pain that I described as a 'four'. He just offered a prescription. If I wasn't well versed in this stuff and just listened to my doctor, I would have taken it. Once the prescription runs out, a lot of people are still addicted (opioids effectively rewire your brain), and since the pills themselves are expensive the poorer ones go in for a illicit kick. It's delusional to assume that people are these sovereign beings with a floating, abstract will which can at any moment intercede ab extra and correct course. Pharma companies push the doctors, the doctors push the drugs, and the pharma companies lie about how addictive the drugs are.
Sometimes...but not always...and I wouldnt even say a majority of time are they addicted.

DO you know what the worst curse to modern medicine is?

WebMD. People go into doctors offices convinced that they know what is wrong with them or little Johnny. Some but not all opiod addicts are addicts from sustained use of prescribed meds. To make that claim you would have to ignore the reality of the number of tobacco addicts we have and alcoholics and heroin addicts and coke addicts.

Everybody must get stoned.
 
I don't disagree with you, but really, how much does "blame" really accomplish? As you mention, the species has this desire to "change its perception of reality", whether by alcohol or other substances. And other species besides humans show that same behavior. Are you tilting at windmills?

Rational public policy is what we need, AND what we totally lack.
Its not a question so much of blame as it is ownership. The OP was discussing pointing the finger of blame...I was pointing out that dealers fill needs. And how do you make a public policy to regulate 12 year olds huffing or 15 year olds binge drinking or teens stealing drugs and having pharm parties?

Personally...I think if you want effective policy change, go the route of Social Darwinism.
 
1. Mexican cartels have switched from smuggling heroin to fentanyl made in China. The reason this change is killing so many Americans has to do with several factors.

• Fentanyl is a much more powerful opiate than oxycodone, Vicodin, heroin, or any of the traditional opiate drugs being produced by American pharmaceutical companies.

• Fentanyl from Mexico is being deceptively sold to Americans as something else; usually the cartels will mislabel fentanyl by pressing the powder into pills, by using a pill press. These pill presses have been available on Amazon, eBay, and Alibaba. The Mexican pills are made to look like legitimate American brand pills, mimicking the size and look of pills commonly prescribed, down to the distinctive number markings manufacturers use on their pills.

• When the Chinese fentanyl powder is pressed into a pill which resembles Vicodin, oxycodone, or Xanax, the user is essentially ingesting a lethal dose of a drug they thought was something else. Overdose and death occurs in minutes, if not treated in such instances. It's important to remember that many of the overdose deaths now include a user getting a Mexican counterfeit pill laced with deadly fentanyl, not the drug they were intending to take. This scenario is how the pop star Prince died.

2. While American pharmaceutical companies CLEARLY deserve the bulk share of blame for the opiate crisis, at least their products contain the correct medication, instead of a far deadlier drug disguised as something more benign. American pharmaceutical started this mess, particularly Purdue Pharma, which both created Oxycontin, and spend millions of dollars changing the medical industry's landscape, to operate on greed rather than an earnest attempt to treat illness. When American companies are allowed to essentially act as drug dealers wearing expensive suits, enjoying an air of respectability while being largely unaccountable to laws & morals, we end up with 70,000 dead Americans per year. It may be time to admit that our secular government's de facto religion is the worship of $$$.

You are on the right track, but one thing: There is a scientific method to mixing powders. The last epidemic of deaths in California was due to improper mixing. Fentanyl is so strong the margin or error is slim, and when mixing is done haphazardly it leads to weak doses mixed with fatal ones.

IMO, China is doing it on purpose to get back at Anglo's for the Opium epidemic of the 1800's. Round eye's are all the same to them.

Can anyone tell me why pill machines are sold on Ebay and Amazon, etc? WTF?
 
Its not a question so much of blame as it is ownership. The OP was discussing pointing the finger of blame...I was pointing out that dealers fill needs. And how do you make a public policy to regulate 12 year olds huffing or 15 year olds binge drinking or teens stealing drugs and having pharm parties?

Personally...I think if you want effective policy change, go the route of Social Darwinism.

As to your question regarding policy that might prevent youngsters from binge drinking and having pharm parties, one possible solution might be to somehow encourage adult approaches to alcohol use, as many European countries do. For example, making wine and/or other such beverages part of the culture at the dinner table. Demonstrating and encouraging moderation and adult attitudes.

And another might be to return to the pre-Clinton status quo in which prescription drugs are not allowed to be advertised to the public. Sharyl Attkisson just discussed that on her show last week.

Presently, TV is inundated with Big Pharma ads. I've been against that all along.
 
2. While American pharmaceutical companies CLEARLY deserve the bulk share of blame for the opiate crisis, at least their products contain the correct medication, instead of a far deadlier drug disguised as something more benign. American pharmaceutical started this mess, particularly Purdue Pharma, which both created Oxycontin, and spend millions of dollars changing the medical industry's landscape, to operate on greed rather than an earnest attempt to treat illness. When American companies are allowed to essentially act as drug dealers wearing expensive suits, enjoying an air of respectability while being largely unaccountable to laws & morals, we end up with 70,000 dead Americans per year. It may be time to admit that our secular government's de facto religion is the worship of $$$.

legalize it is the only way to get the illegal **** killing folks off the streets
 
As to your question regarding policy that might prevent youngsters from binge drinking and having pharm parties, one possible solution might be to somehow encourage adult approaches to alcohol use, as many European countries do. For example, making wine and/or other such beverages part of the culture at the dinner table. Demonstrating and encouraging moderation and adult attitudes.
.

In other words, programs like AA or Abstinence before marriage, that just say stay away, don't work.

Agree.
 
Agreed it's our own fault. It's just evolution in action. Our nation should legalize all drugs, regulate them like alcohol and tobacco then let nature take its course. Let the weak winnow themselves from the herd.

OMG, it has nothing to do with letting the weak winnow themselves from the herd.

Christ
 
In other words, programs like AA or Abstinence before marriage, that just say stay away, don't work.

Agree.

No, responsible and social use of alcohol is not like abstinence before marriage. Nor is it like AA. The former is religious nonsense for the most part, and the latter has religious flavoring, but is intended for those with addictive personalities who could never manage responsible alcohol consumption.

Those are your words, not mine.
 
No, responsible and social use of alcohol is not like abstinence before marriage. Nor is it like AA. The former is religious nonsense for the most part, and the latter has religious flavoring, but is intended for those with addictive personalities who could never manage responsible alcohol consumption.

Those are your words, not mine.

So you think AA and abstinence before marriage works. Clue, you are wrong, they don't.
 
So you think AA and abstinence before marriage works. Clue, you are wrong, they don't.

AA works for certain individuals. I have 3 friends who are in it and have been for years. They simply cannot control their alcoholic consumption. I've known quite a few others in the same boat.

Otherwise, I agree with you. It ain't for me, but I can control my drinking, which is done only on a social basis.

I also agree that religious superstition like abstinence before marriage is nonsense.
 
AA works for certain individuals. I have 3 friends who are in it and have been for years. They simply cannot control their alcoholic consumption. I've known quite a few others in the same boat.

Otherwise, I agree with you. It ain't for me, but I can control my drinking, which is done only on a social basis.

I also agree that religious superstition like abstinence before marriage is nonsense.

AA is stepped in religion too. It's really of no relevant to either. They are both poor concepts which may work for a few but overall are failures.
 
As to your question regarding policy that might prevent youngsters from binge drinking and having pharm parties, one possible solution might be to somehow encourage adult approaches to alcohol use, as many European countries do. For example, making wine and/or other such beverages part of the culture at the dinner table. Demonstrating and encouraging moderation and adult attitudes.

And another might be to return to the pre-Clinton status quo in which prescription drugs are not allowed to be advertised to the public. Sharyl Attkisson just discussed that on her show last week.

Presently, TV is inundated with Big Pharma ads. I've been against that all along.
Theres lots that needs to change (but wont...it will get worse). Strong supportive families are the key to mental health and wellness. Without a firm foundation, we will just find ways to stave off as best as possible the results of moral and societal decline.
 
Back
Top Bottom