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Great article on the potential downsides of cannabis legalization

Threegoofs

Threegoofs

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This is really good.. I highly recommend reading in full if you are interested at all in the issues of cannabis legalization. Bad title for such a good article.

Can You Get Addicted to Pot? - The Atlantic

I have real reservations about the widespread legalization movement happening. I think medical marijuana is just a bad idea, and recreational is the way to go, but it should be done more like Holland has done it... low key, strong regulation, absolutely no marketing and advertising, and a restriction on edibles - especially things like gummy bears, cookies, soda. There is definitely a downside of full legalization, and we should be trying to minimize that downside wherever possible.

There is a public health downside. Pretending that cannabis is a cure all treatment, and getting advice from some stoned, untrained budtender with absolutely no clue what, for example, multiple sclerosis is... but recommending some BS strain of 'indica' for it is just a great way to bad health outcomes. GNC's are bad enough, but most of the stuff they push is benign, not a highly active psychotropic.

I totally understand why proponents are cheering on full legalization, but it sure seems counterproductive in the long run.

Money quote:

(Public Health Experts) argue that state and local governments are setting up legal regimes without sufficient public-health protection, with some even warning that the country is replacing one form of reefer madness with another, careening from treating cannabis as if it were as dangerous as heroin to treating it as if it were as benign as kombucha.
Click to expand...

More excerpts.

“Cannabis is potentially a real public-health problem,” said Mark A. R. Kleiman, a professor of public policy at New York University. “It wasn’t obvious to me 25 years ago, when 9 percent of self-reported cannabis users over the last month reported daily or near-daily use. I always was prepared to say, ‘No, it’s not a very abusable drug. Nine percent of anybody will do something stupid.’ But that number is now [something like] 40 percent.”
Click to expand...

“The reckless way that we are legalizing marijuana so far is mind-boggling from a public-health perspective,” Kevin Sabet, an Obama administration official and a founder of the nonprofit Smart Approaches to Marijuana, told me. “The issue now is that we have lobbyists, special interests, and people whose motivation is to make money that are writing all of these laws and taking control of the conversation.”
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Perhaps most important might be reintroducing some reasonable skepticism about cannabis, especially until scientists have a better sense of the health effects of high-potency products, used frequently. Until then, listening to and believing the hundreds of thousands of users who argue marijuana is not always benign might be a good start.
Click to expand...
 
In some herbolism circles they call this "best feel medicine". A bunch of people with similar medical conditions share their personal experiences about holistic treatments and that information becomes the narrative for selling various herbs. No controls for the placebo effect, no controls for dosage, potency, or quality, and no controls for age, gender, health history, or current health. In "best feel medicine" a lab-quality tinture of Valerian root for a diabetic 60 year old women is just as good for sleep as a bathtub concoction for a 12 year old boy with ADHD. That is pretty much where I see the quack medicine of the unregulated medicinal cannabis market.
 
Threegoofs said:
I have real reservations about the widespread legalization movement happening. I think medical marijuana is just a bad idea, and recreational is the way to go, but it should be done more like Holland has done it... low key, strong regulation, absolutely no marketing and advertising, and a restriction on edibles - especially things like gummy bears, cookies, soda.
Click to expand...

So basically even you have to admit that it should be legalized and it's stupid to criminalize, you're just saying you want some regulations to make sure we don't go too far the other way too quickly. That's fine. Nobody is really against that.
 
MrWonka said:
So basically even you have to admit that it should be legalized and it's stupid to criminalize, you're just saying you want some regulations to make sure we don't go too far the other way too quickly. That's fine. Nobody is really against that.
Click to expand...

Well, the point is that no one seems to be FOR it.

Look at Colorado, Nevada, California. Its gone too far, way to quickly, with cannabis bus tours, billboards, flashy advertising, etc.
 
Threegoofs said:
Well, the point is that no one seems to be FOR it.

Look at Colorado, Nevada, California. Its gone too far, way to quickly, with cannabis bus tours, billboards, flashy advertising, etc.
Click to expand...

The types of regulation that you're advocating for is kind of difficult to do at the state level. It's something that will really only make sense once it's legalized on the national level.
 
MrWonka said:
The types of regulation that you're advocating for is kind of difficult to do at the state level. It's something that will really only make sense once it's legalized on the national level.
Click to expand...

Hmm. Don’t know why its difficult.

You legalize it with restrictions. No advertising. No publicity. Strict purchase limitations. Portions of the tax revenue going into public education on the potential harm as well as treatment. Why is that hard?
 
Threegoofs said:
Well, the point is that no one seems to be FOR it.

Look at Colorado, Nevada, California. Its gone too far, way to quickly, with cannabis bus tours, billboards, flashy advertising, etc.
Click to expand...

The alcohol you consume in Las Vegas is far worse for you than the pot
 
There are none, just bull****

Threegoofs said:
Hmm. Don’t know why its difficult.

You legalize it with restrictions. No advertising. No publicity. Strict purchase limitations. Portions of the tax revenue going into public education on the potential harm as well as treatment. Why is that hard?
Click to expand...

that's exactly what is already in place (more familiar with Colorado laws). You don't need treatment for pot, it may be a mental addiction, but its not physical. You won't go into withdrawals from stopping smoking pot.
 
The reckless way that we are legalizing marijuana so far is mind-boggling from a public-health perspective,” Kevin Sabet, an Obama administration official and a founder of the nonprofit Smart Approaches to Marijuana, told me. “The issue now is that we have lobbyists, special interests, and people whose motivation is to make money that are writing all of these laws and taking control of the conversation.”
Click to expand...

Kevin sabet is a known shill for the pharma industry, how anyone still takes this man seriously ill never know. must be some damn good lieing he gets up to.
 
Sampson Simpson said:
There are none, just bull****



that's exactly what is already in place (more familiar with Colorado laws). You don't need treatment for pot, it may be a mental addiction, but its not physical. You won't go into withdrawals from stopping smoking pot.
Click to expand...

Advertising seems quite common in Colorado.

And this attitude is exactly what the article is addressing. The public health ramifications are potentially quite significant, and they continually get dismissed.

I mean.... does anyone who approaches this issue believe there is NO downsides at all to full recreational legalization? That’s just fantasy.
 
DesertSands said:
Kevin sabet is a known shill for the pharma industry, how anyone still takes this man seriously ill never know. must be some damn good lieing he gets up to.
Click to expand...

Don’t know him, but the quote seems pretty spot on.

Look at Ohio - the recreational legislation was OPPOSED by many of the usual proponents, and tepidly supported by NORML, because of concerns of a monopoly on the market.

Why Did Ohio's Marijuana-Legalization Amendment Fail? - The Atlantic

When it becomes legal nationally, its sure worth considering how we really dont want to see major sports being sponsored by some edibles company.

And the fake concern about pharma is getting old. Pharma doesnt care - the damn drug doesn’t do much for most diseases, and its effects would probably create more health problems than it would solve.
 
Threegoofs said:
This is really good.. I highly recommend reading in full if you are interested at all in the issues of cannabis legalization. Bad title for such a good article.

Can You Get Addicted to Pot? - The Atlantic

I have real reservations about the widespread legalization movement happening. I think medical marijuana is just a bad idea, and recreational is the way to go, but it should be done more like Holland has done it... low key, strong regulation, absolutely no marketing and advertising, and a restriction on edibles - especially things like gummy bears, cookies, soda. There is definitely a downside of full legalization, and we should be trying to minimize that downside wherever possible.

There is a public health downside. Pretending that cannabis is a cure all treatment, and getting advice from some stoned, untrained budtender with absolutely no clue what, for example, multiple sclerosis is... but recommending some BS strain of 'indica' for it is just a great way to bad health outcomes. GNC's are bad enough, but most of the stuff they push is benign, not a highly active psychotropic.

I totally understand why proponents are cheering on full legalization, but it sure seems counterproductive in the long run.

Money quote:



More excerpts.
Click to expand...

As one who believe cannabis IS addictive although not anywhere nearly as much as cocaine or heroin or ophioids or nicotine and many other substances are addictive, I agree that if it is going to be legalized, it should be as least as strictly regulated as tobacco products.
 
Threegoofs said:
Don’t know him, but the quote seems pretty spot on.

Look at Ohio - the recreational legislation was OPPOSED by many of the usual proponents, and tepidly supported by NORML, because of concerns of a monopoly on the market.

Why Did Ohio's Marijuana-Legalization Amendment Fail? - The Atlantic

When it becomes legal nationally, its sure worth considering how we really dont want to see major sports being sponsored by some edibles company.

And the fake concern about pharma is getting old. Pharma doesnt care - the damn drug doesn’t do much for most diseases, and its effects would probably create more health problems than it would solve.
Click to expand...


monopolies are a definite concern, but marijuana for mild pain relief and anxiety does have a grain of truth to it. Why else would they lobby so hard against it?
 
Threegoofs said:
Don’t know him, but the quote seems pretty spot on.

Look at Ohio - the recreational legislation was OPPOSED by many of the usual proponents, and tepidly supported by NORML, because of concerns of a monopoly on the market.

Why Did Ohio's Marijuana-Legalization Amendment Fail? - The Atlantic

When it becomes legal nationally, its sure worth considering how we really dont want to see major sports being sponsored by some edibles company.

And the fake concern about pharma is getting old. Pharma doesnt care - the damn drug doesn’t do much for most diseases, and its effects would probably create more health problems than it would solve.
Click to expand...

We have it legal here in Nevada, Sin city, and it works great
 
Threegoofs said:
This is really good.. I highly recommend reading in full if you are interested at all in the issues of cannabis legalization. Bad title for such a good article.

Can You Get Addicted to Pot? - The Atlantic

I have real reservations about the widespread legalization movement happening. I think medical marijuana is just a bad idea, and recreational is the way to go, but it should be done more like Holland has done it... low key, strong regulation, absolutely no marketing and advertising, and a restriction on edibles - especially things like gummy bears, cookies, soda. There is definitely a downside of full legalization, and we should be trying to minimize that downside wherever possible.

There is a public health downside. Pretending that cannabis is a cure all treatment, and getting advice from some stoned, untrained budtender with absolutely no clue what, for example, multiple sclerosis is... but recommending some BS strain of 'indica' for it is just a great way to bad health outcomes. GNC's are bad enough, but most of the stuff they push is benign, not a highly active psychotropic.

I totally understand why proponents are cheering on full legalization, but it sure seems counterproductive in the long run.

Money quote:



More excerpts.
Click to expand...

Just think, if they had asked the same question about tobacco and alcohol and Ambien, we might have futile prohibitions against them too.
 
Threegoofs said:
Well, the point is that no one seems to be FOR it.

Look at Colorado, Nevada, California. Its gone too far, way to quickly, with cannabis bus tours, billboards, flashy advertising, etc.
Click to expand...

There's nothing wrong with advertising, if you're going to license a business they deserve to advertise.

It's more subtle here in WA but they can. If the concern is kids, well the stores themselves are exceedingly strict about identification. As in more than once, sometimes to enter, always to purchase. They dont want to risk losing their licenses.
 
Threegoofs said:
Don’t know him, but the quote seems pretty spot on.

Look at Ohio - the recreational legislation was OPPOSED by many of the usual proponents, and tepidly supported by NORML, because of concerns of a monopoly on the market.

Why Did Ohio's Marijuana-Legalization Amendment Fail? - The Atlantic

When it becomes legal nationally, its sure worth considering how we really dont want to see major sports being sponsored by some edibles company.

And the fake concern about pharma is getting old. Pharma doesnt care - the damn drug doesn’t do much for most diseases, and its effects would probably create more health problems than it would solve.
Click to expand...

Why? How is that different from the beer sponsorships? (Are hard alcohol producers allowed to advertise or sponsor? I seem to see Pendleton and Jack Daniels all over at sporting events).
 
Threegoofs said:
Well, the point is that no one seems to be FOR it.

Look at Colorado, Nevada, California. Its gone too far, way to quickly, with cannabis bus tours, billboards, flashy advertising, etc.
Click to expand...

How is that 'going to far'?

Seems to be working just fine.
 
Threegoofs said:
Advertising seems quite common in Colorado.

And this attitude is exactly what the article is addressing. The public health ramifications are potentially quite significant, and they continually get dismissed.

I mean.... does anyone who approaches this issue believe there is NO downsides at all to full recreational legalization? That’s just fantasy.
Click to expand...

What are they?

And we're not seeing many downsides here in WA. Remember, people have always been using anyway. So an uptick in use hasnt shown much. What we're finding is that more and more people are exploring it for pain use. And sleep. Lower on the THC side.

People that wanted pot for recreational use always just got it. Now with choices in CBD and THC % readily available, people can make educated purchases for a variety of uses.
 
Threegoofs said:
Advertising seems quite common in Colorado.

And this attitude is exactly what the article is addressing. The public health ramifications are potentially quite significant, and they continually get dismissed.

I mean.... does anyone who approaches this issue believe there is NO downsides at all to full recreational legalization? That’s just fantasy.
Click to expand...

There are NO downsides to full recreational legalization. When you compare it with the realities of prohibition.

At least, no downsides the way we're doing it up here.

Most of what you want done is being done in the Canadian legalization. Probably not as strictly as you like, but certainly taking the strictest elements of both the tobacco and alcohol industries.

I think there's a lot of folks who are not interested in pot using the worst of the scare propaganda and their own "informed" opinion to try to prevent others from doing it. My advice, if you don't want to do it, don't do it. Just sit back, do your best to keep your opinion to yourself, and enjoy the benefits of more tax dollars coming into the system, and less going out spent on punishing people who enjoy it. Enjoy less satellite criminal activity. Enjoy less money spent on jails. Enjoy less people getting pissed up and fighting on a Friday night, because they're at home brawling their way through a bag of Doritos, binge watching Bob's Burgers.

The main reason there is no downside is because prohibition has been a complete failure. Pot use is so prevalent, I would imagine there will be very few noticeable changes (other than stores with that funny leaf in their sign popping up) with legalization. Other than the money.
 
Pot helped me a lot when I was getting treated for cancer. I use it for PTSD now.

The OP didn't think medical pot was a real thing.

It's real.
 
late said:
Pot helped me a lot when I was getting treated for cancer. I use it for PTSD now.

The OP didn't think medical pot was a real thing.

It's real.
Click to expand...

Yes sir, it is. I would be at the bottom of the bay if not for it. General anxiety disorder made it impossible for me to leave the house. Couldn't take meds, side effects impacted me too heavily -- tried everything, almost gave up. Thank God for pot. Nearly lost everything, now I'm back to work in a stressful job and doing well, I still have my family, I still have my life.

I will repeat this as often as I see negative rhetoric, to offset the bad information people spread because they watched too many commercials about eggs and frying pans. Thanks Nancy.
 
Lursa said:
Why? How is that different from the beer sponsorships? (Are hard alcohol producers allowed to advertise or sponsor? I seem to see Pendleton and Jack Daniels all over at sporting events).
Click to expand...

Right.

I don’t think beer should be the model we base cannabis marketing on.
 
Threegoofs said:
Right.

I don’t think beer should be the model we base cannabis marketing on.
Click to expand...

Why not? In terms of immediate effect AND long term harm...beer outweighs pot by far.
 
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