CDC: Drug overdoses hit new record

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/401961-cdc-drug-overdoses-hit-new-high-in-2017

More than 72,000 Americans died from drug overdoses in 2017, according to preliminary data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), a new record.

The CDC recorded a 6.6 percent increase in fatal drug overdoses from 2016, but noted that the preliminary numbers likely underestimate the final death toll.

More than 40,000 people died from opioid overdoses last year, and nearly 30,000 people died from overdoses of synthetic opioids, like fentanyl. The overdose deaths involving synthetic opioids rose sharply from 2016, while deaths from heroin, prescription opioid pills and methadone fell, the CDC said.
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I have a paging receiver tuned to my county's fire & EMS alerting channel. Even here in upper middle class suburban Phila I hear 3-4 OD calls each day. These aren't skid row junkies. These are teens & young adults. The EMS ambulances all carry the opioid antagonist medicine NARCAN for use on these calls. I wonder how many lives they actually save & how many repeat ODers they encounter.

People that choose to get addicted to drugs kill themselves. The world is overpopulated. I'm not seeing the problem here.

Anarchon said:

People that choose to get addicted to drugs kill themselves. The world is overpopulated. I'm not seeing the problem here.

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The problem is that we could do a lot better.

Anarchon said:

People that choose to get addicted to drugs kill themselves. The world is overpopulated. I'm not seeing the problem here.

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Sort of like a spin on Social Darwinism? Selection of the unfit to die?

Anarchon said:

People that choose to get addicted to drugs kill themselves. The world is overpopulated. I'm not seeing the problem here.

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Many of these people get addicted from opioids they were prescribed. While I don't absolve people of responsibility for giving IN to their addictions, I highly doubt most of these people CHOOSE to get addicted.

Anarchon said:

People that choose to get addicted to drugs kill themselves. The world is overpopulated. I'm not seeing the problem here.

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Is this coming from someone who has never been on opioids for any kind of pain management?

Had a guy I worked with who was really smart. Really nice guy. Really tough. Shoulder got put out of socket and he was given opioids for pain management after he went to the hospital (it was bad). He ended up getting hooked. I’m an upper middle class college grad. I had to have major surgery due to a weightlifting accident. I got hooked on them. I was borderline suicidal. Opioids will **** with your brain. Fortunately I had doctors and nurses as family members who helped me manage and I also sought help.

End of the day opioids are not excellent medication. Yep doctor still prescribe it like candy. I wonder if people felt the same about cocaine back in the day? Your statement seems very naïve.

Skeptic Bob said:

Many of these people get addicted from opioids they were prescribed. While I don't absolve people of responsibility for giving IN to their addictions, I highly doubt most of these people CHOOSE to get addicted.

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I got rid of mine in a fit of rage. I had other problems outside of the medication in my life. I knew if I didn’t flush them I knew if I didn’t flush those I would either OD or put a gun in my mouth. And I had help. I can’t imagine how others deal with it. I rarely drink I don’t smoke pot and I don’t use tobacco. My addiction was the gym and I lost that.

JacksinPA said:

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/401961-cdc-drug-overdoses-hit-new-high-in-2017

More than 72,000 Americans died from drug overdoses in 2017, according to preliminary data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), a new record.

The CDC recorded a 6.6 percent increase in fatal drug overdoses from 2016, but noted that the preliminary numbers likely underestimate the final death toll.

More than 40,000 people died from opioid overdoses last year, and nearly 30,000 people died from overdoses of synthetic opioids, like fentanyl. The overdose deaths involving synthetic opioids rose sharply from 2016, while deaths from heroin, prescription opioid pills and methadone fell, the CDC said.
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I have a paging receiver tuned to my county's fire & EMS alerting channel. Even here in upper middle class suburban Phila I hear 3-4 OD calls each day. These aren't skid row junkies. These are teens & young adults. The EMS ambulances all carry the opioid antagonist medicine NARCAN for use on these calls. I wonder how many lives they actually save & how many repeat ODers they encounter.

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Most is coming from over the border...BUILD the WALL!

tac138777 said:

Is this coming from someone who has never been on opioids for any kind of pain management?

Had a guy I worked with who was really smart. Really nice guy. Really tough. Shoulder got put out of socket and he was given opioids for pain management after he went to the hospital (it was bad). He ended up getting hooked. I’m an upper middle class college grad. I had to have major surgery due to a weightlifting accident. I got hooked on them. I was borderline suicidal. Opioids will **** with your brain. Fortunately I had doctors and nurses as family members who helped me manage and I also sought help.

End of the day opioids are not excellent medication. Yep doctor still prescribe it like candy. I wonder if people felt the same about cocaine back in the day? Your statement seems very naïve.

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A man is solely responsible for his actions. It's illogical to blame others for the things you choose to do. People that overdose on drugs are not doing so because someone has a gun to their head. People that become addicted to drugs have a choice, as you are proof of. Realize that you and you alone made the choice that extended your life, and be proud of that fact, regardless of how many friends and family encouraged you.

Now, if you wish to make an argument that opiods suck, and that people need easier access to other alternatives...I'm fully on board. But, know that it is a separate argument.

This is generally the effect of increasing levels of fentanyl being cut into heroin, btw.

Anarchon said:

A man is solely responsible for his actions. It's illogical to blame others for the things you choose to do. People that overdose on drugs are not doing so because someone has a gun to their head. People that become addicted to drugs have a choice, as you are proof of. Realize that you and you alone made the choice that extended your life, and be proud of that fact, regardless of how many friends and family encouraged you.

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Do you understand what chemical dependency is?

Now, if you wish to make an argument that opiods suck, and that people need easier access to other alternatives...I'm fully on board. But, know that it is a separate argument.

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Why would people need access to an alternative? Why do opioids suck?

You can discuss responsibility. But it is all well and good if you aren’t doing it on purpose. If someone goes out and buys heroin? That is one thing. But when you get medication prescribed to you? Getting addicted is a very real risk factor. My argument is that doctors are giving people a medication that is painfully addictive. I mean you are talking about middle aged women from the suburbs getting knee replacements that get addicted.

At some point It isn’t a “choice.” Not consciously. They trusted their doctor. But they may have no experience with narcotics otherwise. And so when they get dependent? They don’t realize it till it is too late. I’ve seen it happen. It sneaks up on you.

Mr Person said:

This is generally the effect of increasing levels of fentanyl being cut into heroin, btw.

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I tend to prefer treatment of addicts and execution of dealers for that reason. They would sell poison to a baby if it made them money. In fact...they do.

tac138777 said:

I tend to prefer treatment of addicts and execution of dealers for that reason. They would sell poison to a baby if it made them money. In fact...they do.

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People like you are the reason the US has the largest incarceration rate on the planet, dwarfing Soviet Russia's Gulag years, and current North Korea. That realized dystopia is the result of your (and others of your ilk) holding people responsible for the actions of others, and mala prohibita like the drug prohibition you support.

Also, your wanting to execute people because they act in a way you do not approve of, even though that act is nonviolent, is sociopathic behavior in the extreme.

Anarchon said:

A man is solely responsible for his actions. It's illogical to blame others for the things you choose to do.

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That doesn't really apply to a situation where your doctor prescribes a habit-forming drug.

People that overdose on drugs are not doing so because someone has a gun to their head. People that become addicted to drugs have a choice, as you are proof of.

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Actually, the whole point of addiction is that you don't have much of a choice. An addict can't stop whenever they want.

Many people do not know, or are misinformed, about the risks. Doctors can also provide conflicting information. For many people, brief exposure to opiates isn't addictive. The problem is that people react differently. One person could use opiates for months without developing a habit, while others get hooked after a few days. It's not as simple or predictable as "one dose and you're hooked for life!"

JacksinPA said:

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/401961-cdc-drug-overdoses-hit-new-high-in-2017

More than 72,000 Americans died from drug overdoses in 2017, according to preliminary data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), a new record.

The CDC recorded a 6.6 percent increase in fatal drug overdoses from 2016, but noted that the preliminary numbers likely underestimate the final death toll.

More than 40,000 people died from opioid overdoses last year, and nearly 30,000 people died from overdoses of synthetic opioids, like fentanyl. The overdose deaths involving synthetic opioids rose sharply from 2016, while deaths from heroin, prescription opioid pills and methadone fell, the CDC said.
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I have a paging receiver tuned to my county's fire & EMS alerting channel. Even here in upper middle class suburban Phila I hear 3-4 OD calls each day. These aren't skid row junkies. These are teens & young adults. The EMS ambulances all carry the opioid antagonist medicine NARCAN for use on these calls. I wonder how many lives they actually save & how many repeat ODers they encounter.

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This would seem to be a logical conclusion of 100 years of completely irrational drug policy. Cause and effect.

Add on the corruption of the FDA and the fascist style of Big Pharma deception, and this result is logical.

That doesn't really apply to a situation where your doctor prescribes a habit-forming drug.

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Sure it does. You're advocating victim mentality.

Visbek said:

An addict can't stop whenever they want.

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That's the official narrative you've been taught to accept. But, it's not true. It may be difficult. It may come with challenges. But, the addict is the only one who can quit. Others cannot quit for him. This is further victim mentality.

Many people do not know, or are misinformed, about the risks.

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And who's fault is that? More victim mentality.

Do you live your life, or does life happen to you?

tac138777 said:

...it is all well and good if you aren’t doing it on purpose.

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If you run over some kid with your car, but you didn't do it on purpose, are you still responsible for it?

Anarchon said:

Sure it does. You're advocating victim mentality.

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No, I'm recognizing that some people are victims.

That's the official narrative you've been taught to accept. But, it's not true.

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Yes, it is.

It's not just "difficult." These kinds of drugs actually change the user's neurology. Opiates cause a flood of dopamine, and habitual use affects the dopamine receptors and throws off the reward system. A habitual user can't even enjoy something as simple as a candy bar, because their brain is attenuated to massive doses of dopamine, and everything that generates that huge rush -- including the social group you form around the drug. Much of these changes are permanent, by the way.

We haven't even gotten into withdrawal symptoms, or changes to white matter....

Let's get real. Any habit is extremely difficult to break. Do you think millions upon millions of people can't lose weight because they lack willpower? No, it's because losing weight and keeping it off requires continual extraordinary effort. And that's just food.

It's not impossible to quit opiates -- but it is very, very, very difficult. Anyone who relies on mere willpower is almost certainly doomed, no matter how motivated they are. We can't develop effective treatments by denigrating addicts, and treating neurological changes like they're moral failures.

You want to talk about something that's not true? Look into AA. It's unscientific garbage and is shamefully ineffective, but people assume it works, basically because it's all over TV and movies, and the organization refuses to track its results. Failure rates may be as high as 95%. (e.g. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazin...irrationality-of-alcoholics-anonymous/386255/)

Do you live your life, or does life happen to you?

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Both.

Millions of people get sick not because of what they've done, but because it happened. People get hit by drunk drivers or lose their homes in a flood, not because of what they've done, but because it happened. You didn't choose your parents, you didn't choose when to be born, you didn't choose your genes, you didn't choose your first grade teacher. And if you're a drug addict, you cannot just choose to stop.

This is not coddling. No one is being infantilized by recognizing that these drugs change the actual structure of your brain. The only way we can effectively treat addiction is to understand how it works.

Visbek said:

You want to talk about something that's not true? Look into AA. It's unscientific garbage and is shamefully ineffective, but people assume it works, basically because it's all over TV and movies, and the organization refuses to track its results. Failure rates may be as high as 95%.

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It's funny that you mention AA. It has the exact same philosophy that you are espousing...that addicts cannot help themselves. It's not their fault. They have a sickness.

Anarchon said:

If you run over some kid with your car, but you didn't do it on purpose, are you still responsible for it?

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Did the doctor give you a perscription to run over the kid?

tac138777 said:

Did the doctor give you a perscription to run over the kid?

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Nope. Notice how I was able to answer your question?

Anarchon said:

It's funny that you mention AA. It has the exact same philosophy that you are espousing...that addicts cannot help themselves. It's not their fault. They have a sickness.

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So basically, you can't refute a single point I made. Not too surprising.

Anarchon said:

People like you are the reason the US has the largest incarceration rate on the planet, dwarfing Soviet Russia's Gulag years, and current North Korea. That realized dystopia is the result of your (and others of your ilk) holding people responsible for the actions of others, and mala prohibita like the drug prohibition you support.

Also, your wanting to execute people because they act in a way you do not approve of, even though that act is nonviolent, is sociopathic behavior in the extreme.

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1) I don’t care about the legalization of marijuana. We should.

2) Dealers are killing each other and others over the profits from the trade. They prey on the weak. The young. They ARE animals. They don’t deserve a prison as nice as a gulag. That isn’t sociopathy. That is recognizing that dealers are evil people. They sell near schools and use children as mules. They aren’t engaging in a “lifestyle I disagree with.” They are genuinely bad people hurting people to make fast money.

Why should I shed a tear when delta force whacks Pablo Escobar? Or the police grease a scumbag meth or crack dealerwho sells to teenagers?

3) We have been trying to deal with supply side drug prohibition. And it doesn’t work. Treating addicts is the only effective method. It works in other nations. Their markers are minuscule for that reason.

Edit add: and let’s get this straight. If someone sold drugs to my children… They would disappear. If more people had that mentality the drug problem in this country would not be as bad .

tac138777 said:

...We have been trying to deal with supply side drug prohibition. And it doesn’t work. Treating addicts is the only effective method. It works in other nations. Their markers are minuscule for that reason.

Edit add: and let’s get this straight. If someone sold drugs to my children… They would disappear. If more people had that mentality the drug problem in this country would not be as bad .

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I guess you don't see how obviously you're contradicting yourself in those statements. The cog dis is strong in you.

Visbek said:

So basically, you can't refute a single point I made. Not too surprising.

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You haven't said anything new. Your restating that people are victims does not mean that I need to refute those claims a second time.
Argumentum ad naseum.