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CDC: Drug overdoses hit new record

People like you are the reason the US has the largest incarceration rate on the planet,

How does treatment and execution fill up prisons?

It does the opposite.
 
No they would not.

If sales were legalized and taxed and regulated for purity and dosage, the only drug dealers would be tax-paying and nonviolent health professionals.

I'm up for decriminalization but not availability or sales.

Production, govt oversight, and taxes means $$$. Even here where pot is legalized, it's taxed big time and expensive.

Here we're discussing highly addictive drugs. That means leading to more and more dysfunction in a person, and less ability to hold a job (just one consequence of course). There would still be a black market and these people would still be turning to crime to get the $$ for a fix in either case.
 
How does treatment and execution fill up prisons?

It does the opposite.

Neither would, other than the fact that forced treatment would still be the logical equivalent of being imprisoned, and that people wait to be executed for many years in prison. In any event, the legal system and its prohibition of drugs that poster endorses does fill up prisons. They are the main reason they are full today.
 
Again, there isn't much evidence that it functions as an analgesic. AFAIK no one has actually tested marijuana for those properties. Rather, what they do is ask medical marijuana users about their habits. That's nowhere near the same thing as a double-blind study to test if it's more efficacious than a placebo.

It doesn't function as an analgesic.

All the studies so far have declared such.

What I'd does is move the pain from front and center in ones sensorium.

"Dissociative" would he a good term if it wasn't already being used for a different phenomenon.

When pain is screaming in your face it can drive you mad.

When its "over there" you can learn how to deal with it.

That's how its been explained to me by people who have used it to get off opioids.

The federal government owns the patent for cbd as medicine.

And there is incentive to test it for something nobody claims it does and then declare it ineffective.

If it is effective, they can't keep it in schedule 1.

And many many oxen will be gored.

Pharma profits will be reduced.
 
Neither would, other than the fact that forced treatment would still be the logical equivalent of being imprisoned, and that people wait to be executed for many years in prison. In any event, the legal system and its prohibition of drugs that poster endorses does fill up prisons. They are the main reason they are full today.

So it was just a flip, lazy non-answer. OK.
 
I did not say that people have total control over their lives. I've said people have control over their actions and choices, and are therefore responsible for them. I cannot control if, when I first step out of my door tomorrow, a bird craps on my head. I can control how I react to it, and I am responsible for that choice.
So basically, you haven't bothered to read my posts, since I've repeatedly referred to "total control" and "radical agency" for a few days now. Nice.

Anyway. In terms of ascribing responsibility, it still sounds like you want it both ways. People are responsible for their own actions, but government is to blame too. You haven't resolved that contradiction at all.

And again, there is solid evidence that people aren't responsible for perpetuating their addictions, as the whole point of an addiction is that it is compulsive, and the individual loses agency. Or do you recognize that choosing to stop an addictive drug is harder than, say, choosing a salad dressing?


The choice to take any drug comes with a risk. If someone is ignorant of that risk, that is no one else's fault. If something bad happens to that person because he took that drug, he is responsible. For example, I developed a life-long disease immediately in response to having taken the anthrax vaccine in the military. I joined voluntarily, and could have resigned at any moment. Therefore I am still responsible for it...no one else.
Your own comments undermine your own point.

When you joined the military, you may have known some of the potential consequences. You knew there was a chance you could be injured or killed; you knew that you might have to kill an enemy. You didn't necessarily know that a mandatory vaccine would result in permanent medical issues. (You also might not have known that nearby explosions or firing rockets could cause traumatic brain injuries.) You certainly did not know every single risk from every single choice you made, before you made it. In fact, as a soldier, you deliberately give up a lot of agency to your superior officers, and can't know every risk and every outcome of those orders in advance.

Anyway. Who is responsible? Let's look at some scenarios.

• The vaccine manufacturer properly tested the vaccine, but its tests did not show any major risks. In this case, even knowing that vaccines can have some side effects, there is no particular reason to assign blame to anyone.

• The vaccine manufacturer tested the vaccine, discovered possible side effects, and did not inform the military or the public. The benefits still outweigh the risks, but the military was misinformed when it made its evaluation. In this case, the manufacturer bears some responsibility for the failure to disclose the issues.

• The vaccine manufacturer tested the vaccine, discovered side effects, and informed the military. The military weighed the impact, and found that the benefits significantly outweighed the risks. We're back to "no one's fault."

• You became ill as a result of your military service. Even if the manufacturer and military did everything right, it makes sense that the military is responsible for any medical care in connection with the vaccine, since the reason you took it was in connection with your military service.

• Claiming "I am responsible!" doesn't tell us anything about optimal treatment for the side effects.

• You can quit the military any time you want? Really? Are you sure about that one?


As for the government involvement with the opiates, you are the one that brought it up...
Incorrect. You blamed the "Nanny State" in post #29.


Prohibition doesn't work, and you want more of it. You want, in addition to your drug-addicts' addiction problems, legal problems piled on top of them. You want birds crapping on their heads.
I suggest you stop with the straw man arguments. I'm arguing for a) selecting treatment options based on effectiveness rather than ideology, and b) better regulation and better government policies.

The legal system is already piling problems on top of addicts. If this is not an efficacious approach, then we should change it. Chances are pretty good that treating addiction like a disease -- something you object to -- will probably work much better than criminalization.

Regulating treatment centers is also important. Without any oversight, there is basically no accountability -- especially since they service a population that is vulnerable and facing issues with credibility. Regulation doesn't fix every problem, but it can prevent a lot of issues.
 
It was an additional point. You chose to gloss over the main point, also in that same post, that his wanting to murder people is wrong.

I wasnt answering him, I was pointing out a facile, empty response that you posted.
 
It doesn't function as an analgesic. All the studies so far have declared such.
Thanks for the repetition.


What I'd does is move the pain from front and center in ones sensorium.
Again, I haven't seen any studies which suggests that marijuana helps cope with pain, or mask pain. All I see are epidemiological studies where they ask patients what they do, which doesn't really give us much information, as those studies can be influenced by political motives, the desire for legalized recreational drugs and so forth.


When pain is screaming in your face it can drive you mad. When its "over there" you can learn how to deal with it. That's how its been explained to me by people who have used it to get off opioids.
Anecdotes are not evidence. Just FYI.


Pharma profits will be reduced.
Not so much. There are already numerous generic opiates available. The versions still under patent are (afaik) some of the time-release versions, as well as super-potent formulations (like Zohydro), neither of which are likely to be threatened by marijuana. Not to mention that they could easily do their own research, and develop, patent and market their own drugs derived from marijuana.
 
You can quit the military any time you want? Really? Are you sure about that one?

I was an officer. Officers can generally resign their commissions any time they want. I did have that choice when I chose to stay and get the anthrax vaccine. Enlisted soldiers sign contracts; they cannot quit any time they want. There are certain conditions when the military has instituted a "stop-loss" or involuntary extension, like at the start up of a war, where no one can leave. In any case, joining is done voluntarily, unless there is a draft.
 
I'm up for decriminalization but not availability or sales.

Production, govt oversight, and taxes means $$$. Even here where pot is legalized, it's taxed big time and expensive.

Here we're discussing highly addictive drugs. That means leading to more and more dysfunction in a person, and less ability to hold a job (just one consequence of course). There would still be a black market and these people would still be turning to crime to get the $$ for a fix in either case.

To be clear, what is your position? Do you believe you or anyone else has the authority to initiate force against someone for the use, possession, or sale of any type of drugs?
 
To be clear, what is your position? Do you believe you or anyone else has the authority to initiate force against someone for the use, possession, or sale of any type of drugs?

Well that's very broad, so yes.
 
Thanks for the repetition.



Again, I haven't seen any studies which suggests that marijuana helps cope with pain, or mask pain. All I see are epidemiological studies where they ask patients what they do, which doesn't really give us much information, as those studies can be influenced by political motives, the desire for legalized recreational drugs and so forth.



Anecdotes are not evidence. Just FYI.



Not so much. There are already numerous generic opiates available. The versions still under patent are (afaik) some of the time-release versions, as well as super-potent formulations (like Zohydro), neither of which are likely to be threatened by marijuana. Not to mention that they could easily do their own research, and develop, patent and market their own drugs derived from marijuana.

Not while its schedule 1.
 
Where do you, and/or these other people get this authority to initiate force against someone?

Same place SCOTUS did when it decided Jim Crow laws were illegal.
 
Least it might detour them from bringing heroin and Fentyanyl. However, if you read your own link you would see the Wall as one of 4 pillars to stop drugs from coming here.

You might be more ignorant than a fifth grader?

The only laughable ignorance here on a less than fifth grade level is believing that a wall would stop drugs, or even help to.
 
Can you answer the question? Where did SCOTUS get this authority to initiate force against someone?

The whole 'initiate force' thing tells me not to bother with an answer.

SCOTUS only interprets the Constitution. It doesnt make the laws.
 
I'm up for decriminalization but not availability or sales.

Production, govt oversight, and taxes means $$$. Even here where pot is legalized, it's taxed big time and expensive.

Here we're discussing highly addictive drugs. That means leading to more and more dysfunction in a person, and less ability to hold a job (just one consequence of course). There would still be a black market and these people would still be turning to crime to get the $$ for a fix in either case.

Black markets are created by the legislative process bringing prohibition. We see that in play today, and we saw it even better with our experience a century ago with the Volstead Act.

Decriminalization, however one chooses to define that term, without sales is a certain recipe for disaster. How can a substance be "decriminalized" if it is not possible to buy it? It's rather a contradiction in terms, an oxymoron.

Milton Friedman has written much about it, as have other classical economists.

An excellent book on the subject is that written by Mark Thornton in 1991 at the University of Utah Press. At the time, Thornton was an economics professor at Auburn University. The title is "The Economics of Prohibition" and is well worth reading.
 
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