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The Opioid Epidemic is Really Bad in Trump Country

Tanngrisnir said:
Addiction is a medical problem and a disease. Treating addiciton as anything other than being a medical problem simply screams historical pig-ignorance.

It's not just a 'behavior' to anyone familiar with it.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Change that.

[video]https://www.ted.com/talks/michael_botticelli_addiction_is_a_disease_we_shoul d_treat_it_like_one[/video]
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Not once in that video did he state that the cure was simply for him to stop using the substance of his addiction. If you go to the doctor and say when I hit my toe with a hammer it gets really sore and I do this at least once or twice a week - can you fix my sore toe? The doctor will say stop hitting your toe with a hammer and it will heal and stay that way.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
No. No data that I've seen, from anywhere, indicates that would be the case.

If heroin were legalized tonight, would you suddently go out and try it? I know what my choice would be.

Almost no one would. Those that did, and developed a problem, could get treatment, in a medical facility, and get on with their lives.

Locking people up serves no purpose other than to give puritans a chance to masturbate.

No one rational wants that.
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Honestly, I have mixed feelings on the issue. I don't have the answers.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
Honestly, I have mixed feelings on the issue. I don't have the answers.
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Nobody does but at least we are finally working on it. Near as I can tell Obama never mentioned it till fall of 2015, after Trump had been on the trail talking about it, and before that the Fed Gov been barely concerned with the problem at any level, it was the locals and maybe a few states only who saw this coming in any reasonable time frame.

Reminds me a lot actually of how we ****ed up Ebola in Africa last go around....just really bad performance from nearly everyone till the crisis was huge.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Who, exactly, is volunteering me to pay for treating addicts as if is my fault that we granted them free access to those substances? I have no problem with allowing free choice for folks to enjoy recreational drugs but I do have a problem being held accountable for their abuse of that freedom.
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Taxing the drugs and use that money to support treatment centres

win/win
 
beerftw said:
This epidemic was going on during obama, and bush as well. Years of prescribing opiods like candy has led to the addiction crisis. In my opinion weed should be issued as a pain killer short of severe pain, in which opium should be used but under strict criteria and supervision.
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I know. The Limbaugh addiction I referred to preceded Obama. Laws, both fed and state started changing radically more than a decade ago. The horse was already out of the barn, though.
 
countryboy said:
The opioid epidemic has been going on for years. Suddenly it's Trump's fault? Please. :roll:
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Where did I say it was Trump's fault? Oh, that's right, I didn't say that at all.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Almost no one was even talking about this before Trump came along, because the people who are dying the Elite Class are happy to have die and go away.... have some patience please, plans must be devised which takes time.....not knowing what the health system will look like does not help.
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Is Thursday your day for hyperbole???
 
faithful_servant said:
Pass. Those who think that hyperbole is a legitimate form of debate deserve only ridicule.
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Those who put the "garbage" label on that which they dont like and haul it out to the dump unwilling to explore where the truth lay remain ignorant.
 
The latest thing I heard about addressing this problem was using treatment money to bribe senators in these states to vote for the ACA repeal. Hopefully it is honestly addressed. There are a lot of people who truly put their trust in Trump when he addressed this issue on the campaign trail.
 
The crisis had been building for years but the #1 official in such matters did not sound the alarm till 24 Aug 2016, did not seem interested till Oct 4 2015 and even then his focus was on all addictions, Opioids were just one of many.

The President so far as I can see never mentioned it till March 2016.

The Crisis was clear for years, did not make the priority list.

This was dereliction of duty.

Aug 25 15:

Dr. Andrew Kolodny, director of Physicians for Responsible Opioid Prescribing and chief medical officer at Phoenix House, a drug treatment facility, said in an interview that the president hasn’t made the country’s addiction to opioid analgesics a priority during his presidency of nearly eight years.

"For starters, we’d like to hear him speak about the problem -- never once has he even mentioned it," he said. "We want President Obama to publicly acknowledge the opioid addiction epidemic -- the immense loss of life (more than 124,000 deaths since he took office), the devastating impact on families and communities -- and we want to hear him say that he will do everything in his power to help bring the crisis under control
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/cjarlo...-growing-opioid-heroin-epidemic/#34c29ddf6d7c



U.S. Surgeon General Turn the Tide Announcement

https://www.surgeongeneral.gov/news/2015/10/unite-to-face-addiction-remarks.html

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.go...scussion-national-prescription-drug-abuse-and
 
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countryboy said:
You certainly implied he wasn't doing anything about it. :shrug:
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No, even know Trump did take preliminary action on it - I know Trump signed an EO:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/heres-trumps-new-executive-order-means-opioid-addiction/

Which said "study the problem". I hadn't heard anything since then, except that Conway was involved. The story in the OP caused me to remember that.

I certainly didn't say the issue is Trump's fault - there are other threads where I say who and what I think are to blame. Trump is not mentioned.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
My wife is in the hospital for post surgical infections, she was on morphine and it had her way out there, she was not at all lucid, she also had a brain infection, we (me and the family) insisted she be taken off it, low and behold, she resurfaced.

I will put the morphine up and hide it, I really want to dig a hole and bury it.
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Old-fashioned morphine is an opiate, not an opioid.

The opioids were engineered to be more effective, and maybe they are, but they are also far more addicting. That doctors prescribe them too quickly, easily and commonly is about all that can be changed.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Old-fashioned morphine is an opiate, not an opioid.

The opioids were engineered to be more effective, and maybe they are, but they are also far more addicting. That doctors prescribe them too quickly, easily and commonly is about all that can be changed.
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She did have major surgery, a laparotomy. I was surprised that I could pick up the scrip with just an electronic, signature.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
She did have major surgery, a laparotomy. I was surprised that I could pick up the scrip with just an electronic, signature.
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The rules vary from state to state, but I wonder if the effort to control the opioids has excepted the opiates? I hope your wife had no problems.

I have an old friend who has been in horrible health for years, neuropathy and related conditions, and he has been stockpiling morphine for the day he might need to end his life. Morphine suppresses breathing if taken in excess.
 
Thoreau72 said:
The rules vary from state to state, but I wonder if the effort to control the opioids has excepted the opiates? I hope your wife had no problems.

I have an old friend who has been in horrible health for years, neuropathy and related conditions, and he has been stockpiling morphine for the day he might need to end his life. Morphine suppresses breathing if taken in excess.
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Unfortunately, she has suffered a series of post surgical infections, she is on the mend, though. Thanks.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Who, exactly, is volunteering me to pay for treating addicts as if is my fault that we granted them free access to those substances? I have no problem with allowing free choice for folks to enjoy recreational drugs but I do have a problem being held accountable for their abuse of that freedom.
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It may have not dawned on you but if you are talking about your tax dollars, they are already doing that, or did you think police man hours taken away from looking for missing girls to instead pat down suspects buy marijuana or heroin, and the jailing them (also court fees) was all free pulled from the "Free Money Tree"?

Jordan Peterson claims its plausible that the economists view that humans are only motivated by money, food, water and so on to wage war is overly simplistic about human beings. He suggests its quite plausible some people--like Hitler he mentioned--might be motivated to cause suffering and chaos just to cause them. So, what is your motivation to pay exorbitant prison and policing fees with taxes but not far less than that with a better system that does not criminalize?

Forced treatment of addicts is not sensible or cost effective. Rehabs don't usually produce long term success, particularly 1st, 2nd, and 3rd stays in rehabs. So, rather than tax money be spent on prisons why not take a partial lesson from the private prison industry where prisoners make things for private companies to sell? That being cities or states can use stretches of land and buildings to house voluntarily admitted addicts, with the city working out an agreement with several for profit companies, and the addicts can join the compound under the contractual arrangement they work for some wage way beneath minimum wage. And earning a wage--even if it is $3 an hour--they can pay rent (maybe 5 man rooms or something, with multiple units per floor, with a shared bathroom on each floor and possibly a shared kitchen). Just an idea. I mean... humans sent men to the moon I can't believe they can't figure out a sensible way to make a sober free living compound that costs way less than prisons or your typical rehab centers today.


I mean... if parts of Europe can come up with ways to house felony inmates in accommodations better than what many ghetto Americans live in, then unless the best Americans have IQs of a chimpanzee they ought be able to figure out something a third as good these prisons.


 
beerftw said:
This epidemic was going on during obama, and bush as well. Years of prescribing opiods like candy has led to the addiction crisis. In my opinion weed should be issued as a pain killer short of severe pain, in which opium should be used but under strict criteria and supervision.
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That's exactly how they're used. Any doctor prescribing short acting opioids for long periods of time will get shut down by the DEA. They pop and make a fortune, then get arrested. Not much different than how members of cartels operate, except they go home to their kids and wife in suburbia after a short prison sentence (if they get one) instead of going back to Mexico.
 
Mmmm, I live kind of in the middle of Trump and Hillary country. But my county was once considered the 'meth capital of the state.'

I'm not sure why I should give a crap about this.

I do:
--Care about family and friends. So far I am not aware of any abusing opioids/heroin. (But know very well that doesnt mean they arent)
--stand 100% against the proposed (and losing) "safe injection sites."
--believe that you are an idiot to experiment with these drugs and your habit is not my problem (unless you make it so...will address further on)
--understand that there are some people that were legitimately prescribed opioids for pain and didnt intentionally become addicted. For you I hope you get the help and rehab you need.
--care if an addict's habit or a drug deal bring crime into my home, property, life. To me, that should be the focus...protecting the rest of us from this scourge. But they arent saying it's driving those incidents up.
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So if crime driven from this epidemic affects me, I will be pissed. Otherwise, people and their friends/family need to deal with this. Not me.
 
Lursa said:
Mmmm, I live kind of in the middle of Trump and Hillary country. But my county was once considered the 'meth capital of the state.'

I'm not sure why I should give a crap about this.

I do:


So if crime driven from this epidemic affects me, I will be pissed. Otherwise, people and their friends/family need to deal with this. Not me.
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What is the problem is bigger than anything "people and their friends/family" can deal with on their own?
 
<alt>doxygen said:
I'm a "legalize and educate, treat the addicted" libertarian on this issue. Bans and "tough on crime" approaches are proven failures, and that's where I fear Trump/Sessions are headed. Treating the victims as the problem hasn't worked. Didn't work with booze, either.
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That treatment sounds better than it actually works if, as usual, the person returns to their prior environment which is the rule rather than the exception.

A 2013 study in the Journal of Substance Abuse Treatment surveyed 164 opiate detoxification inpatients (71 percent male, 80 percent who had previously gone through detox) and found that “27 percent had relapsed the day they were discharged, 65 percent within a month of discharge, and 90 percent within a year of discharge.” This survey points to the need for a comprehensive plan of treatment following detox, before returning to an environment that may be rife with triggers. If an addict has access to at least a 30-day treatment program in a residential recovery center, they have stronger footing stepping back into the world, and are equipped with the means to help them keep their sobriety.
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https://www.altamirarecovery.com/treatment-specialties/opiate-addiction/recovery-statistics/
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That treatment sounds better than it actually works if, as usual, the person returns to their prior environment which is the rule rather than the exception.



https://www.altamirarecovery.com/treatment-specialties/opiate-addiction/recovery-statistics/
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I'm aware of that. "freedom" includes the freedom to enslave oneself. It cuts both ways.

The really sad thing is that the creators of Oxy originally marketed it to doctors as something that only led to addiction in < 1% of people.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2622774/
Oxycontin: How Purdue Pharma Helped Spark The Opioid Epidemic | IFLScience
 
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