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Lying to kids about drugs is the wrong strategy

I'm not talking about r discussing medicinal use. I'm talking about recreational use.

Then I hope you don't support alcohol. Just as bad as marijuana really.


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Would you support making it illegal?


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We tried that, Alcohol is too ingrained in western society. MJ is a different beast, I don't see how compounding the issue with two bad drugs helps anyone.
 
We tried that, Alcohol is too ingrained in western society. MJ is a different beast, I don't see how compounding the issue with two bad drugs helps anyone.

Marijuana is also. Hate to break that to you.

I'm not a fan of marijuana (I watched a friend lose control of their life over the drug). But the reality is that making it illegal has not worked either. The industry is making $100,000,000,000 on the drug illegally. Alcohol is double that. But it is a beverage as well.


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Marijuana is also. Hate to break that to you.

I'm not a fan of marijuana (I watched a friend lose control of their life over the drug). But the reality is that making it illegal has not worked either. The industry is making $100,000,000,000 on the drug illegally. Alcohol is double that. But it is a beverage as well.


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Both are problems, both are maintained as "cool things to do". So was tobacco till it was more profitable to destroy it. You wait, 30 years from now, the Marlboro's of MJ will get the same treatment as Cig's.
 
Both are problems, both are maintained as "cool things to do". So was tobacco till it was more profitable to destroy it. You wait, 30 years from now, the Marlboro's of MJ will get the same treatment as Cig's.

Hopefully. Smoking causes emphysema. But a lot of people prefer eating it now. I noticed that in Colorado (visited a shop just to see the inside).


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Hopefully. Smoking causes emphysema. But a lot of people prefer eating it now. I noticed that in Colorado (visited a shop just to see the inside).


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High does of a psychosis inducing drug seems like a bad idea to me. call me crazy.
 
High does of a psychosis inducing drug seems like a bad idea to me. call me crazy.

.....annnnnnd we're back to refer madness.....





I need a mobius facepalm for this.
 
.....annnnnnd we're back to refer madness.....

I think we agree that PTSD Veterans as well as civilians need marijuana and MJ products infinitely more than dangerous psychotropics and opioids on top of alcohol ...
 
That's great, don't care. One guy said something you like. I guess that matters man, that's the real truth man, the man is keeping it down man. Who cares bout people dying man, because that that's just the man being ya know, keeping down the weed man because it's control man.

Yes, one man who happened to be an Administrative Law Judge for the federal agency charged with regulation. Yes, one man who reached his conclusion after several days of testimony from experts on both sides of the issue.

Yes, one man stating the obvious after days of consideration. One man with a conscience and some courage.
 
https://www.livescience.com/17707-marijuana-thc-brain-psychosis.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2811144/
Cannabis-Induced Psychosis: A Review | Psychiatric Times

And you can ignore reality and science all you want. This isn't conjecture or "consensus" this is pretty much cut and dried.

LOL @ "The science". This is one of the most ridiculous attempts you've made to feel superior to other people than I've seen in a while. You didn't read these. You just googled "marijuana and psychosis", scrolled down until you saw "nih.gov" and something with "science" in the name and copy/pasted them without having opened them. I literally just recreated the search. I see exactly what you did.

Anyway, as for the links themselves:



Link 1: You didn't even read it. They used 15 subjects. If you knew the slightest thing about how any of this works, you would have known that 15 subjects does not produce a statistically significant results, and stopped reading.

But you were lying and trolling so you just pasted it.

Second problem: They didn't give those 15 subjects marijauana. They gave them THC. Marijuana also contains CBD, and that'll become important in a bit. Anyway, based on this statistifically insignificant data, they said THC was found to alter one set of prefrontal-striatal interactions, and that when tested, individuals had increased difficulty in telling which stimuli were important and which weren't in a computer simulation. Separately, that there are also altered prefrontal-striatal interactions in people with psychosis, which causes other difficulties in salience attribution (the stuff about stimuli). They don't say that it's the same set of interactions that are altered - that's merely left for the reader to insert of their own accord. They also don't say that they're altered to the same extent or in the exact same way.

But, it ALSO said that CBD, also in marijuana, had the exact opposite effect. Remember I said that would become important? Well, because you were just lying and trolling, you probably aren't even reading this. But in case someone else wants to actually have an honest discussion, what this all means is......

They're really just saying well, on our read of this study we won't provide to you, THC seemed to do something to stimuli recognition sort of similar to what pyschosis does to stimuli recognition, so maybe THC can create psychosis-like symptoms (helpfully not listed or described) - oh but another substance in marijuana has the exact opposite effect AND the people in our statistically useless study weren't given CBD.



(There's also the ever-present problem that this is a media article that doesn't seem to link to the actual study itself, and the media just about always cherry-picks what it wants from studies deceptively).




Link 2 isn't a "study". It's a case report. A report about one single person. And if you'd read it, you'd see in the discussion that they say "The debate remains as to whether or not cannabis can cause schizophrenia and bipolar disorder in an otherwise healthy individual." It goes on to note what I already noted pages ago: any of the extreme-sounding effects noted by ludin are relegated to "heavy usage" and are also very very very rare.


Link 3. Same problem. Opens with a case review of a single person. The rest is behind a paywall (so you quite obviously did NOT read it).




Nothing you posted contradicts anything I said in this thread. Every single psychoactive or pharmacological substance (hope you know what those words mean) has a litany of possible side effects. Overuse of any such substance increases the risk and severity of side effects.

When you're talking about pot, every single one of the extreme-sounding side effects you and/or ludin have copy/pasted after a google search have turned out to be only presented in very very very tiny amount of cases, and in situations in involving heavy use over a long period of time (aka, 'abuse').

There are tons of similar side effects for all sorts of OTC medications. They don't put the full long lists on the labels because said side effects are similarly extremely rare and/or only tend to present when the product is misused. But there are. Get a Physician's Desk Reference and find out. (I actually used to read my father's).

:shrug:





But, you know, troll and lie away. Maybe you can have a pre-emptive go at all the people about to become storm victims in Florida next.
 
Last edited:
Caffeine is a drug that can cause:

Temporary increase in heart rate
Temporary increase in blood pressure
Insomnia
Calcium and Magnesium loss in urine
Risk of miscarriage
Anxiety
Jitters

Even DEATH: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...s-dangers-of-caffeine-powder/article19683210/



Caffeine withdrawal can cause:


headache
fatigue
anxiety
irritability
depressed mood
difficulty concentrating
reduced contentednes
stomach pain
joint pain
heart palpitations




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Physical_2
Caffeine Facts: Addiction, Insomnia, Pregnancy Effects, and More





I'm certain an honest poster can look at those, understand which may result from overuse and which may not, then understand why how intellectually dishonest ludin's posts were.

If a "true fact" is quoted without context, it can be made to sound scary with great ease.



It bears repeating: caffeine is a deadly addictive drug! It causes DEATH! BAN IT!

/snort
 
LOL @ "The science". This is one of the most ridiculous attempts you've made to feel superior to other people than I've seen in a while. You didn't read these. You just googled "marijuana and psychosis", scrolled down until you saw "nih.gov" and something with "science" in the name and copy/pasted them without having opened them. I literally just recreated the search. I see exactly what you did.

Anyway, as for the links themselves:



Link 1: You didn't even read it. They used 15 subjects. If you knew the slightest thing about how any of this works, you would have known that 15 subjects does not produce a statistically significant results, and stopped reading.

But you were lying and trolling so you just pasted it.

Second problem: They didn't give those 15 subjects marijauana. They gave them THC. Marijuana also contains CBD, and that'll become important in a bit. Anyway, based on this statistifically insignificant data, they said THC was found to alter one set of prefrontal-striatal interactions, and that when tested, individuals had increased difficulty in telling which stimuli were important and which weren't in a computer simulation. Separately, that there are also altered prefrontal-striatal interactions in people with psychosis, which causes other difficulties in salience attribution (the stuff about stimuli). They don't say that it's the same set of interactions that are altered - that's merely left for the reader to insert of their own accord. They also don't say that they're altered to the same extent or in the exact same way.

But, it ALSO said that CBD, also in marijuana, had the exact opposite effect. Remember I said that would become important? Well, because you were just lying and trolling, you probably aren't even reading this. But in case someone else wants to actually have an honest discussion, what this all means is......

They're really just saying well, on our read of this study we won't provide to you, THC seemed to do something to stimuli recognition sort of similar to what pyschosis does to stimuli recognition, so maybe THC can create psychosis-like symptoms (helpfully not listed or described) - oh but another substance in marijuana has the exact opposite effect AND the people in our statistically useless study weren't given CBD.



(There's also the ever-present problem that this is a media article that doesn't seem to link to the actual study itself, and the media just about always cherry-picks what it wants from studies deceptively).




Link 2 isn't a "study". It's a case report. A report about one single person. And if you'd read it, you'd see in the discussion that they say "The debate remains as to whether or not cannabis can cause schizophrenia and bipolar disorder in an otherwise healthy individual." It goes on to note what I already noted pages ago: any of the extreme-sounding effects noted by ludin are relegated to "heavy usage" and are also very very very rare.


Link 3. Same problem. Opens with a case review of a single person. The rest is behind a paywall (so you quite obviously did NOT read it).




Nothing you posted contradicts anything I said in this thread. Every single psychoactive or pharmacological substance (hope you know what those words mean) has a litany of possible side effects. Overuse of any such substance increases the risk and severity of side effects.

When you're talking about pot, every single one of the extreme-sounding side effects you and/or ludin have copy/pasted after a google search have turned out to be only presented in very very very tiny amount of cases, and in situations in involving heavy use over a long period of time (aka, 'abuse').

There are tons of similar side effects for all sorts of OTC medications. They don't put the full long lists on the labels because said side effects are similarly extremely rare and/or only tend to present when the product is misused. But there are. Get a Physician's Desk Reference and find out. (I actually used to read my father's).

:shrug:





But, you know, troll and lie away. Maybe you can have a pre-emptive go at all the people about to become storm victims in Florida next.

I read them. you want to believe MJ doesn't have dangerous side effects. That's fine. That is your choice. I'm not trying to be superior to anyone. I want to save people from making a big mistake. MJ isn't some "Hey man, let's have a good time, toke up dude" drug. I've seen it **** people up, I see the number of dead caused on the roads.

I know you don't care about peoples lives, just your political agenda.
 
Who's hiding the. Chocolate cookies? Hard to believe people's attitudes on pot. In states where it's legal, both opiate, and alcohal consumption is down.

Expect people that lose money on pot to start funding biased studies.

60% of the country is in favor of legalization. And the second biggest group that supports it are seniors. They deserve to be respected and defended as they are our elders. They have a skill in baking. BAKING!

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Who's hiding the. Chocolate cookies? Hard to believe people's attitudes on pot. In states where it's legal, both opiate, and alcohal consumption is down.

Expect people that lose money on pot to start funding biased studies.

60% of the country is in favor of legalization. And the second biggest group that supports it are seniors. They deserve to be respected and defended as they are our elders. They have a skill in baking. BAKING!

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Good propaganda has a self-reinforcing mechanism built-in: when confronted with reality, the person who has accepted the propaganda feels an urge to cling to the propaganda because it would be simply embarrassing to admit one has ardently believed a silly lie.

The mechanism is stronger in a situation like this, because ardent belief in the propaganda has functioned as support for decades and decades of brutal drug law enforcement that has wreaked untold havok in American society and, thanks to our power, in the rest of the world we pressured to adopt similar policies. A person who has bought into the Draw War propaganda, especially with regard to something as safe as marijuana, would have to feel a good degree of guilt over what their support for "tough on crime" drug laws has wrought.

It's much more comforting for people to repeat the same lies they've been told, and if we look just one page back, make up their own lies about the subject.




Fortunately, time marches on, and more and more people have been willing to see the actual truth.
 
Lying to cops about drugs is the wrong strategy, too. Some of the kids will become cops when they grow up. The cops will have the task of serving the public by enforcing the law.

I don't think it would be ethical to ask the police to get high in order to understand what drugs are and what drugs aren't dangerous, nor would it be fair to require them to do it as part of their education (training).

The scene from Serpico comes to mind - officers are trained to observe "reefer, stick, roach, joint." And the war on drugs is about as dated as the scene is.

Serpico (1973) -- (Movie Cilp) Marijuana Cigarettes
 
I say we elect a joint for POTUS

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