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Booker introduces bill to legalize marijuana nationwide

I just don't like stupidity (I get that from dear old dad, along with his green thumb). Say something stupid and I'm going to tell that you just said something stupid.

Take your daddy off the pedestal. People were perfecting the "science" of bud growing long before you were born.

You might want to rethink your qualifications for stupidity, because you have placed yourself on the inside of that circle, looking out.

Again, I've been commenting on the growth of black markets which will thrive as weed gets regulated and taxed. It's the nature of the business.

Add costs for regulated distribution and taxes, and someone is going to step in and cut out the middle man.

Denying that is indeed, stupid.
 
Except to reduce the number of people getting killed by stoned drivers (going up FAST here in Oregon, but getting under reported by the media) and calls to poison control centers for kids eating pot candy, cookies, etc. that looks just like regular candy, cookies, etc.

No, I see no data that supports that contention. The concerns about kids are invalid. Legal or not, they could still get their hands on it. Keeping it illegal changes nothing about that.

Driving under the influence is already illegal.
 
No, I see no data that supports that contention. The concerns about kids are invalid. Legal or not, they could still get their hands on it. Keeping it illegal changes nothing about that.

Driving under the influence is already illegal.

When it was illegal, there were no "pot gummies" just sitting around people's homes.
 
LOL

I'd try to cut and run too if I made arguments like yours.

Any time regulations and taxes add to the cost of a luxury item like week, alcohol, or cigarettes, a black market rises up to take advantage.

Every time.

For example:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB1040938577857473793

In New York, a Black Market For Illegal Cigarettes Thrives​

Reality appears to be a mystery for some.....

As I stated, there are no black markets of significance and that cause any of the problems that you live in mortal fear of.

Sorry you can't handle reality.
 
There is a black market for weed today in legal states. It's widely reported.

Are you disputing all these reports? If so, on what basis?

FYI, Illegal distilling of alcohol for distribution continues today.

Making Moonshine At Home Is On The Rise. But It's Still Illegal : The Salt : NPR

I don't know anyone who consumes moonshine in this day and age. Perhaps in rural areas or in some backwoods "dry county" areas. Keep your weak arguments going though - it's a free country.
 
When it was illegal, there were no "pot gummies" just sitting around people's homes.

So what? That's a problem with parenting, not MJ.

"WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!?!?!?" is simply an admisstion of dependence on the state to solve personal matters.
 
Take your daddy off the pedestal. People were perfecting the "science" of bud growing long before you were born.

You might want to rethink your qualifications for stupidity, because you have placed yourself on the inside of that circle, looking out.

Again, I've been commenting on the growth of black markets which will thrive as weed gets regulated and taxed. It's the nature of the business.

Add costs for regulated distribution and taxes, and someone is going to step in and cut out the middle man.

Denying that is indeed, stupid.

It's the assumption you were pushing that commercially grown legal pot is better than homegrown or illegally grown pot that I had an issue with. People will get better at growing pot, just to be competitive with the commercial growers. If you want proof, just take a look at the exploding micro-brewery/micro-distillery movement that's making substantial in-roads into the big breweries/distilleries.

Yes, there will always be a black market for anything that gets taxed (like alcohol, cigarettes, etc.), we can certainly agree on that.
 
When it was illegal, there were no "pot gummies" just sitting around people's homes.

Kids get into their parent's booze as well. Responsible parents secure dangerous items to that little hands can't access them.
 
Without having read the legislation (I will...just dont have the time) I would say that if it decriminalizes marijuana as a Class 1 drug, then that is fine. But just as we should allow states today to choose to legalize pot, we shouldnt force states to legalize pot. The fed should be out of the enforcement game. Their only focus on marijuana should be the illegal importation of the drug via criminal enterprise.
 
So your response to the reports of black markets is just your opinion.

That doesn't really cut it.

I don't understand why you continue to cling desperately to your weak "black market" argument. I showed you evidence that legal weed sales are going through the roof in WA state. They've had to prohibit new legal pot stores from opening in Snohomish County. The demand for legal weed far outweighs the demand for black market weed.
 
It's the assumption you were pushing that commercially grown legal pot is better than homegrown or illegally grown pot that I had an issue with. People will get better at growing pot, just to be competitive with the commercial growers. If you want proof, just take a look at the exploding micro-brewery/micro-distillery movement that's making substantial in-roads into the big breweries/distilleries.

Yes, there will always be a black market for anything that gets taxed (like alcohol, cigarettes, etc.), we can certainly agree on that.

For whatever reason, you've lost all objectivity. I never suggested anything remotely close to what you're claiming in the bolded section above.

I simply stated the fact that growing pot for sale in the black market is not a difficult process. Somehow that translated as an insult to your Dad and his girlfriend.

I don't know where to go from here, so I'm bailing on this exchange.
 
Yes it does but it's a drop in the ocean compared to prohibition and probably not a good evidence for the argument you're trying to make.

Thank you for offering your personal opinion on the issue.
 
I don't understand why you continue to cling desperately to your weak "black market" argument. I showed you evidence that legal weed sales are going through the roof in WA state. They've had to prohibit new legal pot stores from opening in Snohomish County. The demand for legal weed far outweighs the demand for black market weed.

I'm clinging to nothing. I've offered evidence, you've offered, what?

http://www.seattleweekly.com/news/four-years-after-legal-weed-seattles-black-market-still-thrives/

Four Years After Legal Weed, Seattle’s Black Market Still Thrives

Meet the dealers, buyers, and patients ducking the 502 shops.​
 
Show me one legal distributor in WA state that has had to shut down for low sales volume this year and we'll talk.

Why don't you try to refute the reports on the Black Market in Washington State with something other than your opinion, and we can "talk".
 
Take your daddy off the pedestal. People were perfecting the "science" of bud growing long before you were born.

You might want to rethink your qualifications for stupidity, because you have placed yourself on the inside of that circle, looking out.

Again, I've been commenting on the growth of black markets which will thrive as weed gets regulated and taxed. It's the nature of the business.

Add costs for regulated distribution and taxes, and someone is going to step in and cut out the middle man.

Denying that is indeed, stupid.

The bolded is 100% incorrect in the long term.

If an unregulated/unlicensed grow in a legal state suddenly has legal competition, how does that make them thrive? When has competition made a business more lucrative, especialy when that competition has a long term advantage (not having to hide)? You assume it's because there will be zero risk to illegal grows once it's legalized, but that is patently false. Unlicensed grows of commercial size will still be illegal and should be prosecuted to the extent of the law. If law enforcement fails to do so, you have an enforcement issue, not an issue with the laws. You can post another link about black markets in legal states if you want, but they typically either are

A: recently legalized, legal businesses still setting getting licensed, inspected, setting up shop, supply/distribution chains, and not pumping out much product. Normal black market activity continues, as the legal market can't really compete with established growers yet.

B: Illegal grows in legal states, where the pot is exported to states where it is still illegal. Repeal the federal law, this goes away. Also, in the states where it's being sent, law enforcement needs to get on the ball.

Local black markets do not thrive in legal states apart from a short period immediately following legalization where the perceived risk drops but the legal market hasn't stabilized yet.

Once the industry gets going, and you have large companies with huge amounts of $ invested into real estate, technology, and infrastructure, they will push law enforcement, lobby politicians if need be, to enforce the law and shut down whatever remains of the black market. It's the nature of capitalism. Money makes things happen, and this is a huge industry
 
Why don't you try to refute the reports on the Black Market in Washington State with something other than your opinion, and we can "talk".

I'm not denying that there's a black market. You're desperate to prove that black markets of booze and weed have any significant effect on legal sales. It's an idiotic argument based on the proliferation of legal weed distributors and the fact that grocery stores have trouble keeping booze on the shelf.

Keep trying though - like I said, unless Trump gets his way, it's still a free country!
 
The bolded is 100% incorrect in the long term.

If an unregulated/unlicensed grow in a legal state suddenly has legal competition, how does that make them thrive? When has competition made a business more lucrative, especialy when that competition has a long term advantage (not having to hide)? You assume it's because there will be zero risk to illegal grows once it's legalized, but that is patently false. Unlicensed grows of commercial size will still be illegal and should be prosecuted to the extent of the law. If law enforcement fails to do so, you have an enforcement issue, not an issue with the laws. You can post another link about black markets in legal states if you want, but they typically either are

A: recently legalized, legal businesses still setting getting licensed, inspected, setting up shop, supply/distribution chains, and not pumping out much product. Normal black market activity continues, as the legal market can't really compete with established growers yet.

B: Illegal grows in legal states, where the pot is exported to states where it is still illegal. Repeal the federal law, this goes away. Also, in the states where it's being sent, law enforcement needs to get on the ball.

Local black markets do not thrive in legal states apart from a short period immediately following legalization where the perceived risk drops but the legal market hasn't stabilized yet.

Once the industry gets going, and you have large companies with huge amounts of $ invested into real estate, technology, and infrastructure, they will push law enforcement, lobby politicians if need be, to enforce the law and shut down whatever remains of the black market. It's the nature of capitalism. Money makes things happen, and this is a huge industry

There is no evidence to suggest your claim is accurate. I have provided links, perhaps you can offer something that supports your contention.

Any time regulation and taxation adds to the cost of a luxury item, the black market in those items thrives.

I don't see people making boutique cigarettes, maybe they do, but the illegal importation of cigarettes into highly taxed regions is well known.

It's rather interesting to me to get all these replies to the posting of simple facts.

The weed smokers are certainly a touchy group of paranoid people. "Don't mess with my bud, dude".

I'm not messing with it, so the pot lobby here needs to chill out.

I don't care, I'm too old, so whatever fallout might occur won't have any impact on me.

I left that stuff behind decades ago because it sapped my ambition and ability to reach the goals I wanted to reach.
 
I'm not denying that there's a black market. You're desperate to prove that black markets of booze and weed have any significant effect on legal sales. It's an idiotic argument based on the proliferation of legal weed distributors and the fact that grocery stores have trouble keeping booze on the shelf.

Keep trying though - like I said, unless Trump gets his way, it's still a free country!

I've made no claim about the black market having a significant effect on legal sales.

Why is it that people pushing back on my simple statement of facts need to invent things when doing so?
 
Thank you for offering your personal opinion on the issue.

You're going to seriously argue that the volume of home distilled spirits approaches the volume of bootlegged alcohol during prohibition?

And if the volume of currently produced illegal spirits is significantly lower than during prohibition that's suggestive legal booze reduced the black market not otherwise.
 
You're going to seriously argue that the volume of home distilled spirits approaches the volume of bootlegged alcohol during prohibition?

And if the volume of currently produced illegal spirits is significantly lower than during prohibition that's suggestive legal booze reduced the black market not otherwise.

Seriously, you're going to suggest I made that claim?

It would be helpful if you're going to discuss something, to avoid inserting claims that were never made.

Inventing claims, as you're doing, makes the whole effort rather pointless, and tedious.
 
There is no evidence to suggest your claim is accurate.

If only there was some historical example, some time in recent history where a popular luxury item was made illegal, spawned a thriving black market, was then legalized again, followed by the steady decline of said black market.....

How about that lucrative alcohol black market?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-01/wa-police-uncover-biggest-stash-of-sly-grog/8085180

Constable Lynden Ganzer, from the Kimberley Liquor Enforcement unit, said they found 300 litres of alcohol and a relatively sophisticated production set-up....

The patchwork of liquor restrictions in place across the Kimberley has spawned a lucrative black market, in which cartons of beer and bottles of spirits sell for as much as $150.

In recent years, police have stepped up vehicle searches and inspections of parks to try to stamp out the trade, which was usually based around the late night on-selling of alcohol purchased earlier at bottle shops.

Constable Ganzer said it was the first time they had encountered alcohol being produced specifically for illegal sale.

"This is the first one we've seen where it's a home-brew set-up, with someone taking the time to go into it and sort of set up their own business," he said.

"It's good to get it off the streets because alcohol is a big problem in the Kimberley and it's something we want to tackle and get a hold on."

This is Dec 2016, and it's the first time police there had encountered an illegal alcohol production operation. And the only reason it was potentially profitable? I'll give you 3 guesses.

I have provided links, perhaps you can offer something that supports your contention.

Any time regulation and taxation adds to the cost of a luxury item, the black market in those items thrives.

I don't see people making boutique cigarettes, maybe they do, but the illegal importation of cigarettes into highly taxed regions is well known.

You can spin that either way. You could say Taxes and regulation will make weed more expensive, so black market weed will be cheaper, and the black market thrives.

You could also say the black market now has to compete with the legal market, which can operate openly and own real estate and invest in infrastructure that drastically reduces costs while improving quality and quantity.

In every post you've mentioned this in, you've ignored the cost of production and the advantages to running a legal business as opposed to an illegal one. Address this and I will take your point seriously.

Cigarettes are ~10$ a pack here in RI, and blackmarket cigarettes are non-existent. Completely. You might find someone who drives down to one of the Carolinas to buy some cheap cartons and brings them back, but those are generally for personal use. Anyone caught selling packs without the tax stamp on the bottom gets hit with heavy fines. For all the leg work that has to be done, the extra money it isn't worth the risk. This is by design, capitalism, economics.

It's rather interesting to me to get all these replies to the posting of simple facts.

The weed smokers are certainly a touchy group of paranoid people. "Don't mess with my bud, dude".

I'm not messing with it, so the pot lobby here needs to chill out.

I don't care, I'm too old, so whatever fallout might occur won't have any impact on me.

I left that stuff behind decades ago because it sapped my ambition and ability to reach the goals I wanted to reach.

You turning my response into "don't mess with my bud dude" is basically a non-reply. For someone who doesn't care, you sure do embrace the false narrative and fabricated talking points that have become typical of prohibitionists.

You're links are the same tired old false narratives, using false equivalencies and exaggerating the importance of what is a very small percentage of people, all the while inferring that this justifies prohibition while the very same "crimes" are made with regards to other things and routinely ignored. Where ever someone can drive the stuff into a state where it's still illegal, people will take advantage and try to make some easy money. Without prohibition, those opportunities wouldn't exist. Maybe law enforcement could do something to try and address that problem, it's their job after all.
 
Seriously, you're going to suggest I made that claim?

It would be helpful if you're going to discuss something, to avoid inserting claims that were never made.

Inventing claims, as you're doing, makes the whole effort rather pointless, and tedious.


What's the point of this post of your's if not to suggest that legalization will not curtail the black market?


There is a black market for weed today in legal states. It's widely reported.

Are you disputing all these reports? If so, on what basis?

FYI, Illegal distilling of alcohol for distribution continues today.

Making Moonshine At Home Is On The Rise. But It's Still Illegal : The Salt : NPR
 
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