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Idaho- first state ban transgender athletes women's sports

BrotherFease said:
I am fine with ruling, if it applies to trans women, not trans men. A trans man should be allowed to play on the men's side, because estrogen is not a performance enhancer.
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I agree with this. Trans man can compete with biological man, no advantage. But it will prob not happen very much, too much of an advantage for a biological male. Even if you took a prepuberty female and gave her testosterone, it prob would not allow her body to "catch up". As long as the trans person has the same sex chromosomes as they were born with, there are going to be differences that would effect athletic abilities.
 
Grand Mal said:
Liberals melting down? Horse****. I'm as liberal as all get-out and I support this. If a female athlete injected herself with hormones to equal the natural male level she'd be banned for drugging. There's a reason sports are segregated and anyone who is against this must be for either eliminating the segregation or allowing athletes to take hormones. And either way, women's sports would die.
And I'd say your 20% number is a bit low. Among athletes anyway. In track and field, where results are easy to measure, the women's Olympic numbers are about equal to high school boys.
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One of these thing is not like the ooooootherrrr!
 
Bodhisattva said:
Thanks... I reversed that... trans girls should not be allowed to compete with biological girls.
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Hmm thought you said you didnt have a problem with trans people. Must have mistaken.
 
Hey guise i took 1st gwade science a boy has a pee pee and a girl doesnt! I r smurt!
 
Bodhisattva said:
Good. The mere notion that transgender "women" (biologically) can and should be allowed to compete again biological females is idiotic and unfair.
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Trans women are women biologically
 
bomberfox said:
Hmm thought you said you didnt have a problem with trans people. Must have mistaken.
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You are mistaken...

What do you have against biological females?
 
Grand Mal said:
Argh?
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Nobody is juicing themselves with rather harmful chemicals when they transition. To compare steroid taking with transitioning is the height of ignorance.
 
bomberfox said:
I dont. Trans women are women :)
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You did not answer the question. This must be because you hate biological women. Why do you hate them?
 
Sweden said:
People born female remain female. People born male remain male. Regardless of surgery, hormone injections or any other quackery.
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Science disagrees :)
 
gino said:
Unfortunately, this is not true. The trans females would still have taller height of a man, the skeleton of a male (larger, denser bones) and would keep some of the larger, denser muscles of a man. The tell-tale proof is looking at sports that have allowed trans women to compete with biological women. In these sports, trans women have shown to dominate the sport.

Also, the trans community has declined to try and make this a workable situation. In Texas a few years ago, a girl who was transitioning to a trans man was allowed to compete as a woman even though she was taking testosterone injections to "become a man". She of course dominated and won the state championship in girl's wrestling. I, as a thinking person, can't accept/condone the trans community while it approves of unfair competition.
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Sources?
 
gino said:
I agree with this. Trans man can compete with biological man, no advantage. But it will prob not happen very much, too much of an advantage for a biological male. Even if you took a prepuberty female and gave her testosterone, it prob would not allow her body to "catch up". As long as the trans person has the same sex chromosomes as they were born with, there are going to be differences that would effect athletic abilities.
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So your example of Mack Beggs was a mistake on your part.

It's not about sex chromosomes, but about whether or not the person went through male puberty. Puberty is what separates men from women physically.

As Joanna Harper pointed out about trans women on the Jefferies show, the difference between a trans woman and a genetic woman playing sports is big car, small engine vs. small car, small engine. When somebody goes through a transition, their body loses most to all of their testosterone build up. So question remains is, does that little original build up equal a significant competitive advantage? I would argue it's minimal at best.
 
bomberfox said:
Nobody is juicing themselves with rather harmful chemicals when they transition. To compare steroid taking with transitioning is the height of ignorance.
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My point was that male bodies produce male hormones that give them an athletic advantage. That's why sports are segregated, to remove that advantage. The only way women could compete fairly against men would be to take the same hormones men's bodies produce. That person is female and I'll acknowledge it to her or anyone else but that doesn't take away the advantage. How could you level the playing field?
Why do you think men and women don't compete against each other?
 
Grand Mal said:
My point was that male bodies produce male hormones that give them an athletic advantage. That's why sports are segregated, to remove that advantage. The only way women could compete fairly against men would be to take the same hormones men's bodies produce. That person is female and I'll acknowledge it to her or anyone else but that doesn't take away the advantage. How could you level the playing field?
Why do you think men and women don't compete against each other?
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But you arent really acknowledging that they are female. First i would say its not like people that dont go through extensive hormone therapy can just willy nilly compete, there are other measures like weight class and hormone level measurements that are taken into consideration first.
 
BrotherFease said:
It's not about sex chromosomes, but about whether or not the person went through male puberty. Puberty is what separates men from women physically.
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There are a BUNCH of genes that are acting to make a person male or female. The Y chromosome doesn't just make testosterone. You're assuming that by just adding hormones at puberty it will equal out. My half-assed opinion is that it will not. One example, men tend to be taller than women. Is this because of a higher level of HGH, or does more testosterone do that? My guess is that there are a number of different chemical changes in our bodies that comprise puberty, and not all of them are caused by testosterone.

And I don't believe that a trans woman has no advantage over a biological female.
 
Tahuyaman said:
Wrong. One can mutilate their body, but they can't change their birth gender.
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Its not mutilation either. :). Its an actually beneficial procedure for those who request it.
 
Wow, you're not actually debating if there is a difference between men and women are you?

But as far as how sports should be segregated so that there is no confusion, it's simple. One competition is for XX only, period. The other is for EVERYONE else. Can't be any simpler than that. And if your complaint is that it is unfair cuz women get their own while men don't, no worries, you can have one that is XY only too, but it's not needed, cuz no ****ing XX will EVER be able to compete in sport with a man.

Most pro sports don't discriminate as is right now against women, only against men, rightly so. You can go right now and try out for the NHL if you have the skill, they don't care if you're male, female, something in between, whatever. They'll even pay you millions if you make it.

You allow men to enter female spaces in sport, you won't have any women left, and after a while, no sport left as nobody will watch a bunch of men pretending to be women playing substandard basketball, no matter how much better it is than female. Unless you find me a bunch of Blaire White lookalikes, maybe then, maybe....
 
A Completely idiotic decision brought on by prejudice and hate.. and nothing to do with actual biology or medical science. Idaho should be ashamed of themselves.
 
jaeger19 said:
A Completely idiotic decision brought on by prejudice and hate.. and nothing to do with actual biology or medical science. Idaho should be ashamed of themselves.
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I have noticed that the trans movement keeps talking about science being on their side. I have a degree in Biology and I just don't see it. There are measurable athletic differences between people that are born XX or Xy. Science backs up the idea that male-turned-female shouldn't be competing with biological women.
 
jaeger19 said:
A Completely idiotic decision brought on by prejudice and hate.. and nothing to do with actual biology or medical science. Idaho should be ashamed of themselves.
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Tell that to biological females who are losing out on scholarships and other lucrative deals to MtFs who are stronger.
 
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