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'I'm gay': Mormon Republican lawmaker in Utah comes out

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I debated with myself for some time where to post this discussion. 'I'm gay': Mormon Republican lawmaker in Utah comes out (NBC)
Republican lawmaker Nathan Ivie says it took him more than 20 years to come to terms with his identity.

But on Wednesday morning the 40-year-old Utah County commissioner sat in front of his computer and publicly shared the secret that has caused him pain and confusion since he was 9 years old: He is gay.

In a video posted to Facebook that has since been viewed more than 11,000 times, Ivie embraces his sexual orientation and recounts the difficult experience of growing up feeling at odds “spiritually and biologically.” Ivie is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, but he declined to comment on his faith. The Utah-based faith strictly opposes gay marriage and still considers same-sex relationships to be a serious transgression.

I decided that the uniqueness of the Utah situation made it a "local" political story, albeit with national ramifications. 20 years in the closet, 13 years married and with two kids. Yet, in a community dominated by a religion that calls him a "sinner", he was finally able to reconcile who he is with who he is in the community. I applaud it. And, apparently, so does his community.
 
Is he allowed to have several husbands?
 
I debated with myself for some time where to post this discussion. 'I'm gay': Mormon Republican lawmaker in Utah comes out (NBC)

I decided that the uniqueness of the Utah situation made it a "local" political story, albeit with national ramifications. 20 years in the closet, 13 years married and with two kids. Yet, in a community dominated by a religion that calls him a "sinner", he was finally able to reconcile who he is with who he is in the community. I applaud it. And, apparently, so does his community.

I applaud it as well. It's got to be an exhausting life living a lie, and I wish him the best. Same thing for his family - it can be tough for them to deal with socially, even if they accept their son/brother/grandson/nephew, etc. Was a little tough for me when my brother came out. I'm well over it and just don't care anymore if someone has a problem. If they do, **** em, they're not a friend I care to keep. But it wasn't easy at first.

The good thing is a lot of his friends, family and associates accepted him and respected him before he came out, and now will have to wrestle with the fact that the person they knew and respected is gay. In my little world, the vast majority adjust just fine, and that's ultimately how things change for the better. Nathan Ivie is the same good guy they all liked a year ago, he's just....gay and that's OK. :shrug:
 
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I debated with myself for some time where to post this discussion. 'I'm gay': Mormon Republican lawmaker in Utah comes out (NBC)

I decided that the uniqueness of the Utah situation made it a "local" political story, albeit with national ramifications. 20 years in the closet, 13 years married and with two kids. Yet, in a community dominated by a religion that calls him a "sinner", he was finally able to reconcile who he is with who he is in the community. I applaud it. And, apparently, so does his community.

Good for him! You love who you love and it’s very difficult to do otherwise. I hope his family can accept this and he maintains a good relationship with them.
 
Republican lawmaker Nathan Ivie says it took him more than 20 years to come to terms with his identity.

Big mistake.
Say goodbye to your career and family Ivie...:(
 
I debated with myself for some time where to post this discussion. 'I'm gay': Mormon Republican lawmaker in Utah comes out (NBC)

I decided that the uniqueness of the Utah situation made it a "local" political story, albeit with national ramifications. 20 years in the closet, 13 years married and with two kids. Yet, in a community dominated by a religion that calls him a "sinner", he was finally able to reconcile who he is with who he is in the community. I applaud it. And, apparently, so does his community.

I'm completely for gay rights, equality and SMM. That said..

What a total asshole! To do this to his wife?! Steal her youth on his lying day and night to her day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year? What a bastard! As much of a lowlife a scumball liar as it gets! Purely completely selfish trash.
 
I debated with myself for some time where to post this discussion. 'I'm gay': Mormon Republican lawmaker in Utah comes out (NBC)

I decided that the uniqueness of the Utah situation made it a "local" political story, albeit with national ramifications. 20 years in the closet, 13 years married and with two kids. Yet, in a community dominated by a religion that calls him a "sinner", he was finally able to reconcile who he is with who he is in the community. I applaud it. And, apparently, so does his community.

It seems to be a good rule of thumb, that anything which is harmful to children will be celebrated by the left. If the harm derives from the selfishness and narcissism of a parent, all the better.
 
I debated with myself for some time where to post this discussion. 'I'm gay': Mormon Republican lawmaker in Utah comes out (NBC)

I decided that the uniqueness of the Utah situation made it a "local" political story, albeit with national ramifications. 20 years in the closet, 13 years married and with two kids. Yet, in a community dominated by a religion that calls him a "sinner", he was finally able to reconcile who he is with who he is in the community. I applaud it. And, apparently, so does his community.

I too am glad that he came out, and that he lives the life he now feels free to live. But joko104 raises an important issue: What about his wife? It sounds like they are still on relatively good terms for the sake of their children, but that is something very difficult to come to terms with. The idea that your most intimate bedrock relationship was based on a lie, that your spouse never found you attractive, that you gave someone your youth, only to find out that they never loved you the way you believed they did? It is a betrayal. And he and any other closeted gay man (or woman for that matter) had damn well better be able to accept any refusal to forgive such a betrayal on their unknowing wives' parts and play nicey-nice with them later, even if other spouses are more seemingly-understanding.
 
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I am glad that he came out, and that he lives the life he now feels free to live. But joko104 raises an important issue: What about his wife? It sounds like they are still on relatively good terms for the sake of their child, but that is something very difficult to come to terms with. The idea that your entire relationship was based on a lie, that your husband never found you attractive, that you gave someone your youth, only to find out that they never loved you the way you believed they did? It is a betrayal. And he and any other closeted gay man (or woman for that matter) had damn well better be able to accept any refusal to forgive such a betrayal on their unknowing wives' parts and play nicey-nice with them later.

If it is anything like other such couples I have known, there isn't a lot of recrimination. That expectation is based upon a fundamental misperception of human relations and human sexuality. I could give specifics, but it would violate trusts that I'm not prepared to do. In my experience, though, it is much easier to "forgive" (that is not the right word at all) come to terms with a partner that comes out to be publicly the person they have always been, because they've known them as a real human being with all their qualities. I suspect your experience is much more circumscribed.
 
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If it is anything like other such couples I have known, there isn't a lot of recrimination. That expectation is based upon a fundamental misperception of human relations and human sexuality. I could give specifics, but it would violate trusts that I'm not prepared to do. In my experience, though, it is much easier to "forgive" (that is not the right word at all) come to terms with a partner that comes out to be publicly the person they have always been, because they've known them as a real human being with all their qualities. I suspect your experience is much more circumscribed.

It certainly has been. I know of one other such couple who were family friends of my parents and whose children were mine and my brother's friends. The husband's coming out destroyed his relationship with his wife and children.
 
So many act like a person announcing they are gay makes the person having some hero status. CONGRATULATIONS ON BEING GAY! 3 cheers!

To the contrary, if a person announced "I never loved or wanted my wife, I have always loved another woman" no one cheers - and if this was for years most would seriously condemn the person as a betrayer and liar. In the instant of someone coming out, it takes no more courage than it takes courage if he were to "come out" publicly he had been cheating on his wife for over a decade - and likely would face far worse repercussions as NO ONE would congratulate his courage for "coming out" with that confession.

How many people have condemned President Trump for cheating on his wife? Not ONE has ever congratulated him for "coming out" about his affairs, have they?

Candidly, It would make more sense and be less of an offense if he announced he is bisexual and his desire for another man has finally gotten to him, that this is not acceptable to his wife, so... That would not be as rotten and wouldn't be publicly as humiliating to her nor crushing of her ego. But that would seriously dent his victimhood/hero status because bisexuals are not as accepted as homosexuals are in our society.

While in this instance they may well be political repercussions, normally at least in any urban setting any negative repercussions of "coming out" are offset by exceptionally supporting social networking and a far greater sense of community than among heterosexuals. There are no specific "this is a heterosexual bar or club," no collective celebrating heterosexuality, no heterosexual support centers, and no perks for victimhood status.

Understand, I have stated many times I have an adult child who is SSM married. In the past we held gay rights meetings in our home. But I don't buy into this being gay makes a person heroic, erases their betrayals and misdeeds nor makes the person special in any way. They are just people, subject to the same ethical code of conduct including in relationships and marriage as everyone else.
 
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I too am glad that he came out, and that he lives the life he now feels free to live. But joko104 raises an important issue: What about his wife? It sounds like they are still on relatively good terms for the sake of their children, but that is something very difficult to come to terms with. The idea that your most intimate bedrock relationship was based on a lie, that your spouse never found you attractive, that you gave someone your youth, only to find out that they never loved you the way you believed they did? It is a betrayal. And he and any other closeted gay man (or woman for that matter) had damn well better be able to accept any refusal to forgive such a betrayal on their unknowing wives' parts and play nicey-nice with them later, even if other spouses are more seemingly-understanding.

There is some truth to that, but it's a difficult situation. There's a good chance that coming out means you lose every friend you have, your family, your church which you'll have to leave, and start a new life alone or nearly so. That doesn't always happen and didn't here, but if he's got gay friends he knows it's a very real possibility and coming out means you accept that possible outcome. A good friend of my brother's was so excommunicated by his family he wasn't told of his mother's death from a long bought with cancer until 6 months after the funeral. He'd call they'd hang up, send letters, they were returned unopened. He showed up to talk, they slammed the door in his face. That's extreme but in fact common for families to essentially disassociate themselves from a gay son - all that's difference is they'll take the call, like they'd take one from a friend they care nothing about but feel some social pressure to be outwardly polite to.

And I'm sure in most if not all cases the man loves his wife, and loves his children. The love for his wife is just the kind of love one feels for a brother or parent or other family or close friend. The gay person believes it can work, because sexual attraction is less important than all those other things, and the church and others are telling him this is a choice somehow and that with some work he can be straight, or at least not gay - just pray harder, or whatever it is they're told by their church, and he can resist this 'choice' and live straight.

So it's fine to condemn the man for hurting his wife, and he was likely dishonest to her (not always - my brother told his wife before they got engaged he thought he was gay and they married anyway) but you have to at least acknowledge that society, and especially very religious communities, are imposing HUGE pressures on that person to do exactly what he did to be accepted in that community.

So, yes, it's a betrayal in some ways, but so is every divorce for that matter, and I don't think it's fair to heap more blame on gay people than we do on people who just decide they like that nice younger woman in the office than the mother of their children, etc.
 
So many act like a person announcing they are gay makes the person having some hero status. CONGRATULATIONS ON BEING GAY! 3 cheers!

To the contrary, if a person announced "I never loved or wanted my wife, I have always loved another woman" no one cheers - and if this was for years most would seriously condemn the person as a betrayer and liar. In the instant of someone coming out, it takes no more courage than it takes courage if he were to "come out" publicly he had been cheating on his wife for over a decade - and likely would face far worse repercussions as NO ONE would congratulate his courage for "coming out" with that confession.

You don't know what he felt for his wife and his children. There's a good chance he DID and still does love his wife, but more similar to how you love your siblings or parents.

And the courage comes in frankly because of reactions like yours. If he came out younger, he might lose his family and friends and church and community, so he marries because that's what he's told by EVERYONE and EVERYTHING he believes he should do. Be straight, be right with God and the church and get married, have a family, pray, and it will be OK. That's what he's told his whole life. And he does it, thinks it can work, wants more than anything for it to work, and it just doesn't.

So the option then is another no-win choice. Keep up the lie or come out and face the consequences, which include lots of people condemning him like you are. So there's no good option at any point.

Candidly, It would make more sense and be less of an offense if he announced he is bisexual and his desire for another man has finally gotten to him, that this is not acceptable to his wife, so... That would not be as rotten and wouldn't be publicly as humiliating to her nor crushing of her ego. But that would seriously dent his victimhood/hero status because bisexuals are not as accepted as homosexuals are in our society.

That's just piling another lie on top of previous ones.

While in this instance they may well be political repercussions, normally at least in any urban setting any negative repercussions of "coming out" are offset by exceptionally supporting social networking and a far greater sense of community than among heterosexuals. There are no specific "this is a heterosexual bar or club," no collective celebrating heterosexuality, no heterosexual support centers, and no perks for victimhood status.

I don't know how you can make those claims. You're doing it from a position of your family that accepted their child's sexuality, and then assuming an "urban" environment that accepts gay people, so they come out to open arms all around. When that happens it makes all the difference in the world and it's commendable on your part, but it's FAR, FAR, FAR from universal. Just look at homeless children stats - something like 40% of homeless teens are LGBT, and most of those because they were rejected by family or physically shoved out, many were abused by family.

In religious communities in the vast majority of cases, the entire community is the collective celebrating heterosexuality, and shunning anyone who is not heterosexual. Many churches "accept" being gay, so long as the person is celibate and lives alone and without intimate relationships for the rest of his or her life. So they grow up religious and are told what's the right thing to do, and coming out means, essentially, rejecting all that they believed or were told is the TRUTH.

Understand, I have stated many times I have an adult child who is SSM married. In the past we held gay rights meetings in our home. But I don't buy into this being gay makes a person heroic, erases their betrayals and misdeeds nor makes the person special in any way. They are just people, subject to the same ethical code of conduct including in relationships and marriage as everyone else.

I agree with that, but you can't ignore the role society plays in imposing huge pressure on gay people to engage in the unethical conduct you're condemning.
 
I debated with myself for some time where to post this discussion. 'I'm gay': Mormon Republican lawmaker in Utah comes out (NBC)

I decided that the uniqueness of the Utah situation made it a "local" political story, albeit with national ramifications. 20 years in the closet, 13 years married and with two kids. Yet, in a community dominated by a religion that calls him a "sinner", he was finally able to reconcile who he is with who he is in the community. I applaud it. And, apparently, so does his community.

Ok, now go back to making law.
 
I suppose we could go round and round with this. Yes, families can reject a gay child. We bought a gay teenage boy a car and found him a place to stay because of his family. But families reject their own child for many, many reasons. Dating a person of the wrong race. Not going to church. Not acting or dressing like they like. Getting pregnant or getting someone pregnant etc. Once away from his family, he became the true social butterfly, even a drag queen in clubs and a HUGE network of friends and supporters - more than most young adults will ever had. He didn't SUFFER - he was on top of the world - and because he was gay.

It is nuts to claim a person is hurt because their church rejects gays. So what? Don't go there. Doing so is only deliberately seeking victimhood. If a white guy dressed like a geek went into a black ghetto bar in the East side of Chicago late Friday night it'd like go far, far worse than a gay guy going into a Pentecostal church.

Simply, there is nothing UNIQUE about people being rejected for 101 reasons. However, in fact, in all major urban areas there is all sorts of support groups, socializing places specifically for gays etc - that others rejected for who and what they are and do don't have.

Yes, he probably does "love" his wife and certainly his children, but you really do know what I meant by "love' her - I meant impassioned, desirous sex, which is a BIG part of dating, courtship and early marriage of young people. That he didn't "come out" for fear was much at his wife's expense. She can't grow young. The moment he realized he is not physically attracted to her and is attracted to men - and with him knowing this likely not acceptable to her, he should have said so - so she could move on while still young. Instead, he decided it was only about himself.

Personally, I think virtually everyone is bisexual and just sexual overall. Personally, I believe much of sexuality is around social values and perceptions. When a person is married for years and years and with children, I don't think they are likely "gay" if a desire for sex with men (or relationship) is "homosexuality." I think it is a form of bisexuality. But society still has HUGE negative perceptions of bisexuals as being slutty and promiscuous. So they say "I just realized after all these years I have no physical attraction to women because I never did is just false and convenient - possibly tiring of sex with a female and wanting to facilitate the other half - little different than a person gets tired of their lover/relationship and wants someone else possibly very different.

Not denying circumstantial problems and dangers, but if a gay person wants to avoid conflict they can, just like other people have to do.

I am not making absolute declarations, each situation and circumstance is different. That said, nearly everyone faces rejections - big rejections - for who they are, how they look, act, what they do, like etc. Not just gays. For such, often gays have far more support than others. A short, fat unattractive woman with a big red blotch on her face being burned as a child - what support, what clubs, what is there for her as example - yet probably more people now are socially rejected for being "ugly" than for being gay. Gay people do win elections. Name any short, fat ugly woman who has?
 
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So, yes, it's a betrayal in some ways, but so is every divorce for that matter, and I don't think it's fair to heap more blame on gay people than we do on people who just decide they like that nice younger woman in the office than the mother of their children, etc.

That would only be the case if before marriage the person knew they were not physically attracted to their fiance' - instead desiring a nice young blonde - for 13 years before telling her. That statement of your's denies "being born gay," but rather is claim he became gay 13 years later.
 
That would only be the case if before marriage the person knew they were not physically attracted to their fiance' - instead desiring a nice young blonde - for 13 years before telling her. That statement of your's denies "being born gay," but rather is claim he became gay 13 years later.

No it doesn't deny that at all. What that and the rest of my comment you ignored does is recognize that for their entire life, especially in a religious community like the Mormons, they are told to believe that they are NOT born gay, and can change, and that it's a mortal sin to be gay and have an intimate relationship, that being gay is incompatible with legitimate faith, that they can change, pray the gay away, and more. So they do as they're told and try to change, or as a second best alternative, live as a straight person because that's what their family and religious community demands of them. They hope and often pray that they DO change and they become straight, and they almost always fail, but I don't think anyone goes into a marriage with the idea that they are betraying anyone.

What you're doing is ignoring all that to blame the gay person for not, presumably, coming out at age 9 or whatever. It's not fair IMO.
 
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