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Ft Myers rally

americanwoman said:
Who? I'm sorry, there isn't a statue of those two at any public area in my town so I'm really not sure who you are talking about.

I guess I could google them but I really feel like I would learn so much more by looking at a statue of them in all their glory.
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Google schmmogle unless you've got statues to every tyrant in history how will anyone remember them?
 
trixare4kids said:
You personally attacked me.
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No, I didn't. There's a difference between attacking an argument and attacking someone personally. This is a debate website, thus it's crucial to understand and see the difference. No playing victim.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Because it's a symbol of treason and unconstitutional terrorism.
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More the reason historical monuments like Lee's should remain to remind us of how far we have come from those ugly days gone by.
 
trixare4kids said:
No, sorry... If you search you will find her thoughts on erasing history as it relates to the statutes though.
I feel like she does. We've moved on from this part of our history but we should never forget the ugly days and the statues are needed as a part of our history to remind of this.
That is why the statues of General Lee should remain. Not for glorification but if we forget our history we are doomed to repeat it.
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We are in agreement. But to remove the glorification, they need to be taken down from their pedestals and be replaced with Americans that are truly praise worthy, in my opinion - you guys have so many, this should be easy. Put them in a museum, make every kid go see them, and perhaps allow folks who are nostalgic have access in order to pay their respects, if you want to allow for that kindness.

That all said, I'll still check out your video...this is just where I've landed for now.
 
ecofarm said:
No, I didn't. There's a difference between attacking an argument and attacking someone personally. This is a debate website, thus it's crucial to understand and see the difference. No playing victim.
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You did not attack an argument. You viciously inferred that my opinion means to you that I am something that I am not.
You're the one playing victim since you have the inability ever to admit that you're wrong.
Now you can keep making excuses for yourself, or you can move on and carry yourself like an adult with a message worth hearing.
Your move...
 
OlNate said:
We are in agreement. But to remove the glorification, they need to be taken down from their pedestals and be replaced with Americans that are truly praise worthy, in my opinion - you guys have so many, this should be easy. Put them in a museum, make every kid go see them, and perhaps allow folks who are nostalgic have access in order to pay their respects, if you want to allow for that kindness.

That all said, I'll still check out your video...this is just where I've landed for now.
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Thank you.
I believe this should remain a state's issue, let it go to vote by the people of Lee county to see if the statue of Lee should go to a museum or remain standing.
I think you will find in the Y/T video Rice is saying this is not about glorification of a person or a time in history gone by. The statues, on the other hand, are a reminder of how far we have come historically. The statues and monuments have historically become a symbol of progress, IOW.
 
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trixare4kids said:
You did not attack an argument. You viciously inferred that my opinion means to you that I am something that I am not.
You're the one playing victim since you have the inability ever to admit that you're wrong.
Now you can keep making excuses for yourself, or you can move on and carry yourself like an adult with a message worth hearing.
Your move...
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What a bunch of snowflake crap. Hit the report button and seek a safe space.
 
trixare4kids said:
I believe this should remain a state's issue, let it go to vote by the people of Lee county to see if the statue of Lee should go to a museum or remain standing.
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Why can't Blacks and other oppressed minorities just drag it down?
 
jonny5 said:
That would be Lincoln (excluding world wars). He initiated a war which resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of americans. The south would not have fought a war if the north would have left them alone.
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That attitude is what caused the conflict, there was no right of succession. Lincoln made that quite clear.
 
camlok said:
Why can't Blacks and other oppressed minorities just drag it down?
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Not sure if I am reading the above correctly, but you are advocating for unlawful anarchy?
 
trixare4kids said:
You did not attack an argument. You viciously inferred that my opinion means to you that I am something that I am not.
You're the one playing victim since you have the inability ever to admit that you're wrong.
Now you can keep making excuses for yourself, or you can move on and carry yourself like an adult with a message worth hearing.
Your move...
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No: YOU infer, someone else implies.

And one cannot 'viciously' infer.

You're welcome!
 
trixare4kids said:
More the reason historical monuments like Lee's should remain to remind us of how far we have come from those ugly days gone by.
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Except for the fact that the statutes were specifically createdas as a symbol of the "triumph" of the traitors over African Americans following reconstruction.
 
notquiteright said:
Again who fired the first shot? Who voted to leave the Union? The Rebels THOUGHT Lincoln would lead Congress into VOTING an end to slavery. The 'other side' first and foremost thought the South shouldn't be allowed to leave the Union and rebels firing on Americans couldn't be tolerated. Emancipation came long after the blood was being shed by men in uniform.

You tend to look back and modify the time line to suit your predetermined belief... :peace
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Again politicians and activists started the war, not the people who fought it. As usual.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Except for the fact that the statutes were specifically createdas as a symbol of the "triumph" of the traitors over African Americans following reconstruction.
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Historically, yes, but that's not the meaning of them today otherwise slavery would still be legal. They should remain a reminder of how far we have come historically.
Honestly, why is this such a hard concept to understand?
 
trixare4kids said:
Historically, yes, but that's not the meaning of them today otherwise slavery would still be legal. They should remain a reminder of how far we have come historically.
Honestly, why is this such a hard concept to understand?
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Because they are no such thing——by your argument Germans should have statues of Hitler to show “how far they’ve come”. If the county really had came that far then there would be no need to have shrines to the “Lost Cause” like we do. The fact of that matter is that the country really is changing, and that’s why people are so upset that the monuments to the Confederacy are coming down—those who fought to continue the oppression of African Americans are no longer being celebrated.
 
WCH said:
Again politicians and activists started the war, not the people who fought it. As usual.
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Actually the people of Charleston were quite happy with the battle which resulted from the attempted theft of US government property.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Because they are no such thing——by your argument Germans should have statues of Hitler to show “how far they’ve come”. If the county really had came that far then there would be no need to have shrines to the “Lost Cause” like we do. The fact of that matter is that the country really is changing, and that’s why people are so upset that the monuments to the Confederacy are coming down—those who fought to continue the oppression of African Americans are no longer being celebrated.
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So you disagree with me then.
Ok, I've got no problem with it.

Would you be okay with the people of LEE county voting on this, or are you going to dig your heels in and say they are all wrong should their vote mandate that the statue of Lee remain in its original location?
 
trixare4kids said:
So you disagree with me then.
Ok, I've got no problem with it.

Would you be okay with the people of LEE county voting on this, or are you going to dig your heels in and say they are all wrong should their vote mandate that the statue of Lee remain in its original location?
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To put it bluntly, the statute is a symbol of a abomination of a regime and the oppression of Americans. If you are going to put such thing anywhere, it should be in a museum or the like.

By the way, Robert E Lee himself agreed that Confederate memorials were bad for the country and opposed them.
 
iguanaman said:
That attitude is what caused the conflict, there was no right of succession. Lincoln made that quite clear.
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secession

Lincoln, ever the usual American hypocrite! As was Jefferson, and the other Founding Terrorists.
 
OlNate said:
Who's trying to sanitize HISTORY? There's a difference between "erasing" completely and "erasing" undeserved honor. The only reason you have statues of American traitors and the Civil War defeated around your country, as has been told to me many times on this forum, is because the folks back then wanted the nation to heal. It wasn't because the folks who got the statues of themselves deserved them.

Now the statutes themselves are causing the division. Move them to a museum, so the story can be preserved, but given the original intention behind these statues, and their current impact on American society, they should be taken from their pedestals and put somewhere where the truth of the actual history of what happened can be told. It's not sanitizing history, it's removing undeserved honor.

In my opinion, of course.
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How did you feel about the Lenin and Mao statues in Canada? They still there?
 
WCH said:
How did you feel about the Lenin and Mao statues in Canada? They still there?
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I don't think they should be there ... but to be honest, I didn't know about them until you mentioned them. Then again they weren't Canadian citizens who then committed treason and started killing the rest of us over the desire to ensure the continuation of slavery in Canada, in fact they are hardly a part of our history at all. Also, the statue you are talking about wasn't glorifying Lenin or Mao, but was satirical, so...might not be the best equivalent, WCH, sorry, I bet you thought that was a juicy one... ;)

But if pressed to provide a binary stance, if they impacted as many people as are impacted in America by the Confederate statues, I'd have no problem supporting an initiative to move them to a non public place for future academic reflection. It's just a ****ing statue. Of dead people. Unity among living people is more important.
 
OlNate said:
I don't think they should be there ... but to be honest, I didn't know about them until you mentioned them. Then again they weren't Canadian citizens who then committed treason and started killing the rest of us over the desire to ensure the continuation of slavery in Canada, in fact they are hardly a part of our history at all. Also, the statue you are talking about wasn't glorifying Lenin or Mao, but was satirical, so...might not be the best equivalent, WCH, sorry, I bet you thought that was a juicy one... ;)

But if pressed to provide a binary stance, if they impacted as many people as are impacted in America by the Confederate statues, I'd have no problem supporting an initiative to move them to a non public place for future academic reflection. It's just a ****ing statue. Of dead people. Unity among living people is more important.
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They put those same statues up in Seattle so, we have our Commie lovers here.

Hey, y'all always have Quebec. ;) Secede!
 
WCH said:
They put those same statues up in Seattle so, we have our Commie lovers here.

Hey, y'all always have Quebec. ;) Secede!
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You're right, we will always have Quebec. ;)

Sorry, I can't tell if you're taking us to the friendly part of our chat, or if you're still trying to get jabs in...hehe... Your commie lovers probably wouldn't like the statue, as it sort of makes fun of commies...which would be why the artists' work is banned in China.

Any other Canada stuff you wanna get off your chest, bud? :lol:
 
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