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Thread: Oregon raises smoking age to 21

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    Re: Oregon raises smoking age to 21

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I would imagine that any revenue it brings in is more than offset by the health costs of it. You would have to pay a lot of cigarette taxes to offset the costs of lung cancer treatment, COPD, and heart disease.
    The problem there is, people politically supportive of smoking bans and high taxes love to claim the entire bill for treating those conditions across society as the costs of smoking even though many people who do not smoke will develop heart disease and lung cancer and the majority of costs are born by private insurance and not the public. So the reality is, tobacco taxes for a state legislature are free money. Just like the lottery, the Feds are covering the welfare benefits while the benificiaries are spending their disposable income on lottery tickets
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No one cares about your stupid hippy logic
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    Re: Oregon raises smoking age to 21

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I think a better solution than cigarette taxes would be to allow insurers to charge smokers whatever actuaries determine warrants their actual increased risk due to their smoking habit (insurers can charge smokers more now, but not that much more) and to increase Medicare taxes for smokers to whatever actuaries would determine is needed to cover their increased health risks.
    That sets a dangerous precedent, IMO. It's already bad enough that sin taxes are always foisted upon the politically weak. Who's next? Will it be something that you or I do*? I hate sin taxes as a general concept, but they would be easier for me to accept if the proceeds stayed wholly with the "sin". To me, additional insurance costs probably has more legitimate merit, but it's still a form of sin tax.

    *- I do not smoke, never have, but I do believe that we treat smokers unnecessarily shabbily and with a great deal of inequality.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  3. #23
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    Re: Oregon raises smoking age to 21

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    You don't have "freedom" to impose the costs of your choices on others. We have gas taxes because they fund the roads vehicles drive on. We have tobacco taxes because tobacco use has a very high health cost on society. Smoking related illnesses cost us some 300 billion a year. https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_sta...acts/index.htm

    I don't smoke, so why I should I have to pay for that?
    I mean we could change your last line to anything. I don't have unprotected sex with men so why is HIV my problem? Why spend a dime treating it? And since I don't knock up women either why should I pay taxes towards WIC or child care or anything?

    Claiming you shouldn't have to cover the costs of other people's decisions is s lost argument in this society
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No one cares about your stupid hippy logic
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    Re: Oregon raises smoking age to 21

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I think a better solution than cigarette taxes would be to allow insurers to charge smokers whatever actuaries determine warrants their actual increased risk due to their smoking habit (insurers can charge smokers more now, but not that much more) and to increase Medicare taxes for smokers to whatever actuaries would determine is needed to cover their increased health risks.
    The problem with excise gas taxes is if im using gasoline for my lawn mower, dirt bike, chain saw ect I am not using a vehicle so I pay a hire price for gas to fund roads im not using.
    Excise taxes on tobacco harms dip users as well. My use of dip tobacco doesnt harm you or others. I ok with health insurances increasing my premiums if i am a tobacco user.
    Alchole excise taxes punishes casual occassianal drinker at an attempt to punish alcholics
    Now we have a sugar drink excise tax that punishs soda drinkers under the notion that the tax revenue will help pay for someone with diabetes?
    Excises taxes are unfair in natural by eleminating free markets prices and sets up a PATERNALISM by the government and you also get doubled taxed through sales tax.
    Now watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical, liberal, fanatical, criminal.

  5. #25
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    Re: Oregon raises smoking age to 21

    Quote Originally Posted by Partsguy57 View Post
    But we send them to war to kill.....
    We don't send them. They volunteer. And 99.9% of them will never see combat.

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    Re: Oregon raises smoking age to 21

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    We don't send them. They volunteer. And 99.9% of them will never see combat.
    They still have to sign up for the draft.

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    Re: Oregon raises smoking age to 21

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    The problem there is, people politically supportive of smoking bans and high taxes love to claim the entire bill for treating those conditions across society as the costs of smoking even though many people who do not smoke will develop heart disease and lung cancer and the majority of costs are born by private insurance and not the public. So the reality is, tobacco taxes for a state legislature are free money. Just like the lottery, the Feds are covering the welfare benefits while the benificiaries are spending their disposable income on lottery tickets
    Only 1 in 19 cases of lung cancer are in non-smokers. Smoking increases your risk of heart disease by 3 fold. Smoking & Cardiovascular Disease (Heart Disease)

    I agree that funds from sin taxes are often used for initiatives that have nothing to do with the sin, but you can't downplay the health costs of smoking, its extremely high.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Oregon raises smoking age to 21

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    They still have to sign up for the draft.
    Even in the event of a draft (which, today, would only happen if our existence as a nation was threatened), 99.9% will never see combat.

    People need to spare us the "sent to war" line. For 999 out of 1000 enlistees, that's a stateside or REMF job.

  9. #29
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    Re: Oregon raises smoking age to 21

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    That sets a dangerous precedent, IMO. It's already bad enough that sin taxes are always foisted upon the politically weak. Who's next? Will it be something that you or I do*? I hate sin taxes as a general concept, but they would be easier for me to accept if the proceeds stayed wholly with the "sin". To me, additional insurance costs probably has more legitimate merit, but it's still a form of sin tax.

    *- I do not smoke, never have, but I do believe that we treat smokers unnecessarily shabbily and with a great deal of inequality.
    When we will pay for their oxygen tanks and 30k to 50k a month for lung cancer treatments, I find it hard to believe that on balance smokers are treated shabbily.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Oregon raises smoking age to 21

    I don't see why the government hasn't figured out that age restriction laws on goods and services don't work. Raise your hand if you drank alcohol before you were 21.

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