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Mass. wants to defy voters on legal pot.

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Jun 20, 2017
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Location
Eatonville Washington
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I debated this until I was blue in the face for 35 years. I got sick of saying it was a much safer drug than booze, cigarettes and almost all illegal drugs or the hypocrisy of the whole anti marijuana crusade and the fanaticism that drove them. Now the Mass house is trying to defy voters and screw with the law big time. They are trying to raise the tax to 28% from the voter approved bill. Will the crusaders never quit even after the fight is lost.

People need to stop trying to make it hard on pot smokers. It is stupid to raise taxes to the point the legal market can't compete with the black market. It is stupid for employers to deny jobs to pot smokers where there is no proof they make more mistakes or get hurt more. Give me a break anti pot moral crusaders. The fight is over and you will learn what we pot smokers have known for years. Marijuana is fun and popular. People will not put up with steps backward on this new right we have fought for.
 
I debated this until I was blue in the face for 35 years. I got sick of saying it was a much safer drug than booze, cigarettes and almost all illegal drugs or the hypocrisy of the whole anti marijuana crusade and the fanaticism that drove them. Now the Mass house is trying to defy voters and screw with the law big time. They are trying to raise the tax to 28% from the voter approved bill. Will the crusaders never quit even after the fight is lost.

People need to stop trying to make it hard on pot smokers. It is stupid to raise taxes to the point the legal market can't compete with the black market. It is stupid for employers to deny jobs to pot smokers where there is no proof they make more mistakes or get hurt more. Give me a break anti pot moral crusaders. The fight is over and you will learn what we pot smokers have known for years. Marijuana is fun and popular. People will not put up with steps backward on this new right we have fought for.

Still though that was a ballot initiative not a bill. They could have just said this cannot become law because the tax revenue isn't enough and they could have dropped it its been done before for other things perhaps not in mass but its been done in other states.
There were people saying last year that the taxes on it were too low before it was voted on. Colorado pot tax is 15% for wholesale plus 10% for retail plus 2.9% for state plus up to 3.5% for local so it can be as high as 31.4% there.
The 10% retail tax was added after the tax revenue wasn't enough to cover the oversight and administration. So there was a precedent example to go by regarding what the tax margins needed to be.

People may want something but if it realistically has to be changed to work then what do you do?
 
Still though that was a ballot initiative not a bill. They could have just said this cannot become law because the tax revenue isn't enough and they could have dropped it its been done before for other things perhaps not in mass but its been done in other states.
There were people saying last year that the taxes on it were too low before it was voted on. Colorado pot tax is 15% for wholesale plus 10% for retail plus 2.9% for state plus up to 3.5% for local so it can be as high as 31.4% there.
The 10% retail tax was added after the tax revenue wasn't enough to cover the oversight and administration. So there was a precedent example to go by regarding what the tax margins needed to be.

People may want something but if it realistically has to be changed to work then what do you do?

There are plenty of reasons to legalize other than tax money. That said the state of Washington makes tons with lower tax than 28%. There are plenty of benefits. Not throwing people in jail or prison for marijuana is number 1in my book. Now we need to stop pot smokers from being discriminated against for jobs. There is no solid proof pot smokers do any worse or better job than anybody else. Job performance is all a employer should be worried about.
 
There are plenty of reasons to legalize other than tax money. That said the state of Washington makes tons with lower tax than 28%. There are plenty of benefits. Not throwing people in jail or prison for marijuana is number 1in my book. Now we need to stop pot smokers from being discriminated against for jobs. There is no solid proof pot smokers do any worse or better job than anybody else. Job performance is all a employer should be worried about.

Uhh the tax rate for pot in Washington is 37% excise tax.
 
I debated this until I was blue in the face for 35 years. I got sick of saying it was a much safer drug than booze, cigarettes and almost all illegal drugs or the hypocrisy of the whole anti marijuana crusade and the fanaticism that drove them. Now the Mass house is trying to defy voters and screw with the law big time. They are trying to raise the tax to 28% from the voter approved bill. Will the crusaders never quit even after the fight is lost.

People need to stop trying to make it hard on pot smokers. It is stupid to raise taxes to the point the legal market can't compete with the black market. It is stupid for employers to deny jobs to pot smokers where there is no proof they make more mistakes or get hurt more. Give me a break anti pot moral crusaders. The fight is over and you will learn what we pot smokers have known for years. Marijuana is fun and popular. People will not put up with steps backward on this new right we have fought for.

There is so much ignorance in this post I almost dont know where to begin.

First lets start with your assertion the marijuana is less harmful alcohol, this is debatable but irrelevant. Alcohol is a harmful substance that is a major factor in 45% of crimes and you want to unleash marijuana on the population because it slightly less harmful?

As for Mass "defying" the voters, the country and the state of Mass are Representative democracy and not a direct democracy for a reason. The will of the voters only extends as far as the representatives the choose. So if the representatives see the need to alter a bill thats exactly how the system is supposed to work.

As for workplace accidents: "In May 2015, an article in the Journal of Occupational and Environmental Medicine concluded that there is a likely statistical association between illicit drug use, including marijuana, and workplace accidents"

Marijuana Use and Its Impact on Workplace Safety and Productivity -- Occupational Health & Safety

Its has nothing to with "moral crusaders", legal marijuana is objectively harmful to society and I would argue to a point that it should not ever be legalized
 
There is so much ignorance in this post I almost dont know where to begin.

First lets start with your assertion the marijuana is less harmful alcohol, this is debatable but irrelevant. Alcohol is a harmful substance that is a major factor in 45% of crimes and you want to unleash marijuana on the population because it slightly less harmful?

Its has nothing to with "moral crusaders", legal marijuana is objectively harmful to society and I would argue to a point that it should not ever be legalized

There's so much ignorance in this post I don't know where to begin. Calling cannabis "barely safer" than alcohol is hilariously stupid. People don't get violent on marijuana like they do on alcohol, not even close. There has been no link to an up-tick in violent crime in the 29 states the legalized medicinal marijuana, nor in the 8 that fully legalized. Not arbitrarily locking people in cages for enjoying a natural plant you despise is not "unleashing marijuana on the population".

If the rest of you can smoke your cancerous cigarettes, drink yourself into violence and liver failure, and stuff your fat faces with junk food burdening society with your obesity, I can smoke a plant I found on the ground. You statists are really the worst. Stop trying to use the government as your personal weapon and respect individual liberty.
 
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There are plenty of reasons to legalize other than tax money. That said the state of Washington makes tons with lower tax than 28%. There are plenty of benefits. Not throwing people in jail or prison for marijuana is number 1in my book. Now we need to stop pot smokers from being discriminated against for jobs. There is no solid proof pot smokers do any worse or better job than anybody else. Job performance is all a employer should be worried about.

Are you talking about being high on the job, or just that someone who smokes pot on their off time?
 
There's so much ignorance in this post I don't know where to begin. Calling cannabis "barely safer" than alcohol is hilariously stupid. People don't get violent on marijuana like they do on alcohol, not even close. There has been no link to an up-tick in violent crime in the 29 states the legalized medicinal marijuana, nor in the 8 that fully legalized. Not arbitrarily locking people in cages for enjoying a natural plant you despise is not "unleashing marijuana on the population".

If the rest of you can smoke your cancerous cigarettes, drink yourself into violence and liver failure, and stuff your fat faces with junk food burdening society with your obesity, I can smoke a plant I found on the ground. You statists are really the worst. Stop trying to use the government as your personal weapon and respect individual liberty.

Not sure if you know absolutely nothing about marijuana or you thought you could lie and not get caught

The type or marijuana that gets you high is not natural nor is it "found on the ground", it is specially cultivated to maximize THC content. Any marijuana plant you randomly found on the ground would be worthless to smoke.
 
Not sure if you know absolutely nothing about marijuana or you thought you could lie and not get caught

The type or marijuana that gets you high is not natural nor is it "found on the ground", it is specially cultivated to maximize THC content. Any marijuana plant you randomly found on the ground would be worthless to smoke.

That is completely incorrect. It has not been genetically modified, it has been selectively bred over thousands and thousands of years, like bananas and most of the things we eat and wild cannabis definitely does have THC. None of this actually matters to the actual point though. You have no problem with the thousands of poisons and dangers in the rest of society, but you want to use the violence of government to enforce your arbitrary beliefs. Someone can smoke tobacco giving themselves lung cancer, drink alcohol and get in a violence induced rage, go buy a rifle and blow away 30 kids or 50 people in a night club, but you're worried about the guy who smoked a plant sitting on his couch watching TV, as if he's the real danger to society.

This isn't about public safety for you, it's about control and your own desires. You don't see me demanding your obese self get thrown in prison for eating objectively dangerous foods that are harmful to society. Give freedom a chance and stop trying to have the government control other people's bodies. Keep your greasy hands off our plants, statist.
 
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That is completely incorrect. It has not been genetically modified, it has been selectively bred over thousands and thousands of years, like bananas and most of the things we eat and wild cannabis definitely does have THC. None of this actually matters to the actual point though. You have no problem with the thousands of poisons and dangers in the rest of society, but you want to use the violence of government to enforce your arbitrary beliefs. Someone can smoke tobacco giving themselves lung cancer, drink alcohol and get in a violence induced rage, go buy a rifle and blow away 30 kids or 50 people in a night club, but you're worried about the guy who smoked a plant sitting on his couch watching TV, as if he's the real danger to society.

This isn't about public safety for you, it's about control and your own desires. Give freedom a chance and stop trying to have the government control other people's bodies, statist. You don't see me demanding your obese self get thrown in prison for eating objectively dangerous foods that are harmful to society.

Come onto my job site smelling of booze or pot and you won't have to look at my ugly mug ever again, because you will never step foot on my job again. Pot heads and boozers who can't wait for knock off to get high are dangerous to themselves and everyone else around them.

Sitting a home watching TV, sitting out back, or smoking at some party........... is a entirely different scenario altogether.
 
Come onto my job site smelling of booze or pot and you won't have to look at my ugly mug ever again, because you will never step foot on my job again. Pot heads and boozers who can't wait for knock off to get high are dangerous to themselves and everyone else around them.

Sitting a home watching TV, sitting out back, or smoking at some party........... is a entirely different scenario altogether.

I'm glad that you recognize the difference. As an employer you can make any arbitrary policy decision you want. Legally speaking, if someone hurts or endangers someone else they should be prosecuted regardless if they're on a substance or not. Having the government lump both peaceful and non-peaceful users of tobacco, alcohol, big macs, cannabis, or any other 1,000 substances is irrational and totally incompatible with basic personal liberty.

It's time we stand up to hypocritical fascists that think like Crovax and put personal responsibility and freedom in the forefront. These people hate freedom and can't stand the thought of not having the government manage their daily lives.
 
I'm glad that you recognize the difference. As an employer you can make any arbitrary policy decision you want. Legally speaking, if someone hurts or endangers someone else they should be prosecuted regardless if they're on a substance or not. Having the government lump both peaceful and non-peaceful users of tobacco, alcohol, big macs, cannabis, or any other 1,000 substances is irrational and totally incompatible with basic personal liberty. It's time we stand up to hypocritical fascists that think like Crovax and put personal responsibility and freedom in the forefront.

I smoked right up until my 4th year in the Navy, and I stopped the day my daughter was born in 1981.

Quick story......
My son smokes and always thinks he can hide it from me....(like I care) He let me borrow his fishing Kayak a couple weeks ago for a few hours and dropped it off at my house on his way home after he was on the water all morning with his buddies. He forgot that he left his tupperware in the bait pod. I texted him while I was on the water and said that I cleared out all those nasty weeds in his bait holder and he should take better care of his boat. ;) No texts returned.......:lamo

I have always supported recreational and medical use for pot.
 
I debated this until I was blue in the face for 35 years. I got sick of saying it was a much safer drug than booze, cigarettes and almost all illegal drugs or the hypocrisy of the whole anti marijuana crusade and the fanaticism that drove them. Now the Mass house is trying to defy voters and screw with the law big time. They are trying to raise the tax to 28% from the voter approved bill. Will the crusaders never quit even after the fight is lost.

People need to stop trying to make it hard on pot smokers. It is stupid to raise taxes to the point the legal market can't compete with the black market. It is stupid for employers to deny jobs to pot smokers where there is no proof they make more mistakes or get hurt more. Give me a break anti pot moral crusaders. The fight is over and you will learn what we pot smokers have known for years. Marijuana is fun and popular. People will not put up with steps backward on this new right we have fought for.

 
They would have never legalized it if it wasn't for the chance to tax it at high rates.
 
The problem isn't the tax rate, it's the fact that producers think they can sell it at prohibition prices. Pot is one of the easiest things to grow (so I'm told...ahem), there is absolutely no justification in a legal market for the prices to be anything even approaching what the black market charged. It's harder to grow celery, which you get for under a buck a POUND... $10-$20 a GRAM for pot is absolutely insane in a legal market.

One of the most frequently given reasons for governments to legalize pot is to eliminate the black markets. Prohibition is an undisputable failure, so the goal is to regulate and control, to ensure kids don't get their hands on it, and that criminals don't profit from the black market, and introduce all the things that go along with a black market into society. If government doesn't provide price guidelines to business to ensure that it is no longer profitable for the black market to exist, it's defeated before it's begun. As we move towards national legalization next year here in Canada, this is one of my constant gripes.

It will be just like cigarettes - 25 cigarettes is nearly $15 at the local convenience store, so the Native reservations sell them at $15 a carton, and what do you think you find outside of schools? Almost all the cigarette butts come from the reservations (not sure if it's the same in the states, but they have their own brands up here). (Can cite, if anyone cares to dispute, just too lazy to find the link right now)

Governments need to look at this not just from the tax revenue side, but also the savings side - primarily in law enforcement and prisons. Combined with the tax they would make even at more reasonable prices they would be much much MUCH further ahead than current state.
 
The problem isn't the tax rate, it's the fact that producers think they can sell it at prohibition prices. Pot is one of the easiest things to grow (so I'm told...ahem), there is absolutely no justification in a legal market for the prices to be anything even approaching what the black market charged. It's harder to grow celery, which you get for under a buck a POUND... $10-$20 a GRAM for pot is absolutely insane in a legal market.

You're absolutely right about this, there's nothing technical that makes growing and harvesting cannabis expensive, it can be every bit as cheap as coffee or tobacco and most people that do smoke it would smoke the equivalent mass of a few cigarettes a month. I can't wait for the day we're able to buy shrink-wrapped bricks of cannabis like we can coffee.
 
First lets start with your assertion the marijuana is less harmful alcohol, this is debatable but irrelevant. Alcohol is a harmful substance that is a major factor in 45% of crimes and you want to unleash marijuana on the population because it slightly less harmful?

"Slightly less" is the biggest lie I've heard in a while.

Not sure if you know absolutely nothing about marijuana or you thought you could lie and not get caught

You're one to talk.

Marijuana is by far the safest recreational drug known to man. Alcohol is far far worse.
 
As for Mass "defying" the voters, the country and the state of Mass are Representative democracy and not a direct democracy for a reason. The will of the voters only extends as far as the representatives the choose. So if the representatives see the need to alter a bill thats exactly how the system is supposed to work.

According to the state Constitution:

Legislative power shall continue to be vested in the general court; but the people reserve to themselves the popular initiative, which is the power of a specified number of voters to submit constitutional amendments and laws to the people for approval or rejection; and the popular referendum, which is the power of a specified number of voters to submit laws, enacted by the general court, to the people for their ratification or rejection.

If the law as passed by the people turns out to be deficient in some ways after implementation I'm all for the legislature stepping in to make changes at that point. But they had their chance to legislate on this issue, they demurred, and so the voters did it for them.
 
"Slightly less" is the biggest lie I've heard in a while.



You're one to talk.

Marijuana is by far the safest recreational drug known to man. Alcohol is far far worse.

hehe...well, in terms of safest recreational drug known to man, it's actually magic mushrooms - it's the fastest drug to leave your system, it leaves nothing behind, and you can't die from any part of it (even too much pot smoked rather than vaporized has similar risks to cigarettes) - but who the hell has time for that past the good ol' college days... ;) hehe

Maybe in retirement........
 
I debated this until I was blue in the face for 35 years. I got sick of saying it was a much safer drug than booze, cigarettes and almost all illegal drugs or the hypocrisy of the whole anti marijuana crusade and the fanaticism that drove them. Now the Mass house is trying to defy voters and screw with the law big time. They are trying to raise the tax to 28% from the voter approved bill. Will the crusaders never quit even after the fight is lost.

People need to stop trying to make it hard on pot smokers. It is stupid to raise taxes to the point the legal market can't compete with the black market. It is stupid for employers to deny jobs to pot smokers where there is no proof they make more mistakes or get hurt more. Give me a break anti pot moral crusaders. The fight is over and you will learn what we pot smokers have known for years. Marijuana is fun and popular. People will not put up with steps backward on this new right we have fought for.

I certainly agree pot is less harmful than alcohol or cigs. But, as a former pot smoker, I would never say it is harmless. At the very least, it has addictive properties---doubt me? Just quit for 90 days, and report back how that went--and, it certainly affects many people in negative ways: clouds judgement, distorts reality, lowers ambition, affects reaction time and, most definitely, induces people to act and sound stupid. There's a reason everyone makes fun of "stoners."
 
hehe...well, in terms of safest recreational drug known to man, it's actually magic mushrooms - it's the fastest drug to leave your system, it leaves nothing behind, and you can't die from any part of it (even too much pot smoked rather than vaporized has similar risks to cigarettes) - but who the hell has time for that past the good ol' college days... ;) hehe

Maybe in retirement........

Best buzz ever, by far, was off shrooms. Just a nice clean, hyper-aware rush lasing about 4 hours. :)
 
I debated this until I was blue in the face for 35 years. I got sick of saying it was a much safer drug than booze, cigarettes and almost all illegal drugs or the hypocrisy of the whole anti marijuana crusade and the fanaticism that drove them. Now the Mass house is trying to defy voters and screw with the law big time. They are trying to raise the tax to 28% from the voter approved bill. Will the crusaders never quit even after the fight is lost.

People need to stop trying to make it hard on pot smokers. It is stupid to raise taxes to the point the legal market can't compete with the black market. It is stupid for employers to deny jobs to pot smokers where there is no proof they make more mistakes or get hurt more. Give me a break anti pot moral crusaders. The fight is over and you will learn what we pot smokers have known for years. Marijuana is fun and popular. People will not put up with steps backward on this new right we have fought for.

Be thankful you don't live in a semi-regressive morass like FL.

We voted to legalize medical weed. The state has tried to bury by any means they could find. What made it through in the end is a bill that prohibits product that can be "smoked". WTF? Originally edibles were also to be illegal.

They will be sued, no doubt, the fact that they think they can subvert their constituents and count on their gerrymandered districts to protect their lifetime teat-suckle jobs is maddening.
 
Best buzz ever, by far, was off shrooms. Just a nice clean, hyper-aware rush lasing about 4 hours. :)

Only 4? Either they weren't good, or you didn't do enough... lol... (Don't listen to a word I say, I was a mushroom warrior in my ne'er-do-well youth, I pushed the limits out into the stratosphere...hehe... I (kinda) remember one epic night I made tea from a half ounce of shrooms, and when no one would do it with me, I drank the whole thing... But, never hurt me, and I turned out alright...hehe)

It's been a long time, though, as the next day isn't conducive to being a productive, responsible adult...lol... At least, not with the responsibilities I have. It was a lot of fun, though. :)
 
Only 4? Either they weren't good, or you didn't do enough... lol... (Don't listen to a word I say, I was a mushroom warrior in my ne'er-do-well youth, I pushed the limits out into the stratosphere...hehe... I (kinda) remember one epic night I made tea from a half ounce of shrooms, and when no one would do it with me, I drank the whole thing... But, never hurt me, and I turned out alright...hehe)

It's been a long time, though, as the next day isn't conducive to being a productive, responsible adult...lol... At least, not with the responsibilities I have. It was a lot of fun, though. :)

It was probably longer. I lost track of time...actually, I think I became time.
 
There is so much ignorance in this post I almost dont know where to begin.

First lets start with your assertion the marijuana is less harmful alcohol, this is debatable but irrelevant. Alcohol is a harmful substance that is a major factor in 45% of crimes and you want to unleash marijuana on the population because it slightly less harmful?

As for Mass "defying" the voters, the country and the state of Mass are Representative democracy and not a direct democracy for a reason. The will of the voters only extends as far as the representatives the choose. So if the representatives see the need to alter a bill thats exactly how the system is supposed to work.

As for workplace accidents: "In May 2015, an article in the Journal of Occupational and Environmental Medicine concluded that there is a likely statistical association between illicit drug use, including marijuana, and workplace accidents"

Marijuana Use and Its Impact on Workplace Safety and Productivity -- Occupational Health & Safety

Its has nothing to with "moral crusaders", legal marijuana is objectively harmful to society and I would argue to a point that it should not ever be legalized

This country was built by booze and tobacco. There is no proof pot smokers are any more stupid than anybody else. I have read nothing that says pot is even close to as dangerous as booze or cigarettes. The body count proves that alone. Why do conservatives hate marijuana so bad? The safest into I can't of all and conservatives are against it. Could it be whiskey and tobacco is made in red states while pot is a hippy drug?
 
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