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LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal history.

Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

ludin said:
Answer the question. Stop dodging
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I am not dodging the question.

I have already provided an answer here:

Captain Adverse said:
Pretty much the same way you trust a person without a criminal record...you give them a chance to prove themselves to you.

There are lots of people out there with "clean records" simply because they haven't been caught doing anything yet.

Even more people who haven't done anything criminal right up until the opportunity present's itself.

There is no guarantee you are safer simply because the person you've hired has a clean record...so far. :shrug:
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I have posted elsewhere that I do not agree with registration of any offenders. No one should be on the street if they really still pose a substantial risk.

If you don't want your children taken care of by a child molester, push for the kind of laws I mention in the post you dismissed.

That's the only certain way to insure your kids remain safe...at least from those identified and convicted. :coffeepap:
 
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Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

Captain Adverse said:
I am not dodging the question.

I have already provided an answer here:
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That is a dodge.

Would you let a child molester babysit your kids?
They served their time
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

ludin said:
That is a dodge.

Would you let a child molester babysit your kids?
They served their time
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Perhaps the employers should be more specific and ask the applicant if they've ever molested a child or committed a violent crime, instead.

I think those are two crimes that should not be immune from any employers asking.
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

Moot said:
Perhaps the employers should be more specific and ask the applicant if they've ever molested a child or committed a violent crime, instead.

I think those are two crimes that should not be immune from any employers asking.
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Why? People who commit crimes have children and families of their own. Should they be permanently punished for the past actions of their parent? That seems to be the effect. If a man gets out of prison and cannot find legitimate employment to provide for his family then what options are you leaving for him?
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

CriticalThought said:
Why? People who commit crimes have children and families of their own. Should they be permanently punished for the past actions of their parent? That seems to be the effect. If a man gets out of prison and cannot find legitimate employment to provide for his family then what options are you leaving for him?
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Someone who violently abuses their spouse or kids...and scars them for life...the family is probably better off without them. Some people never change their spots (child molestors)...and others come out of prison worse than before they went in (gangsters)...and others do their time stewing and plotting revenge when they get out (bitter spouses). I think violent offenders are just too much of a risk to society restore all their rights...and employers have a right to know if someone has a violent record for their own safety as well as their other employees.

But for non violent crimes...I don't have a problem with employers not knowing that and giving them second chances. I just have to draw the line with violent crime and domestic abusers.
 
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Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

Moot said:
Someone who violently abuses their spouse or kids...and scars them for life...the family is probably better off without them. Some people never change their spots (child molestors)...and others come out of prison worse than before they went in (gangsters)...and others do their time stewing and plotting revenge when they get out (bitter spouses). I think violent offenders are just too much of a risk to society restore all their rights...and employers have a right to know if someone has a violent record for their own safety as well as their other employees.

But for non violent crimes...I don't have a problem with employers not knowing that and giving them second chances. I just have to draw the line with violent crime and domestic abusers.
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Based on what? Do you actually know the recidivism rates for violent crimes and sex crimes or are you allowing your preconceptions about those populations to dictate your views on policy?
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

CriticalThought said:
Based on what? Do you actually know the recidivism rates for violent crimes and sex crimes or are you allowing your preconceptions about those populations to dictate your views on policy?
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For the same reasons the SCOTUS recently ruled that violent domestic abusers were not allowed to own guns. Until you've been a victim of a violence or domestic abuse or know people who have, then it's not really your place to judge their opinions on policy since their opinions are probably a lot more valid than yours on the subject.
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

Captain Adverse said:
There should be no paroled "child molesters." They should be diverted upon conviction to a State mental health facility until released by a unanimous vote of a panel of psychiatrists.

But don't lump all sex offenders under that label.
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I don't lump them all in...trust me on this. I have seen the result of 16 year old's that look 25 in some dark bar room, that ruined good men's lives.
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

ludin said:
this law is clearly not legal will be challenged in court and thrown out.
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Exemptions for employers in the child care or law enforcement industry are allowed under the ordinance.

Los Angeles non-profits, churches, and other groups support the law, contending it will cut jail recidivism rates by helping former convicts land jobs.

Both the state and federal governments have similar rules in place for applicants seeking public sector jobs, while San Francisco has laws that also apply to private companies.
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Save your indignation - similar laws already in place.
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

RetiredUSN said:
Would you let a paroled child molester baby sit for you?
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Why don't we skip the parole and just put all offenders to death? Would you prefer that? You don't want them to get jobs. So obviously you don't want them to get back and be productive members of society, so **** Em, kill them all. At least we won't have any repeat offenders.
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

ludin said:
You served your time. That doesn't mean that business should trust you and it should be up to them not the government who they hire.

Some business hire them but they are not going to be able to get major jobs that usually pay good money.
It simply isn't worth the risk to the business. It should be up to them not forced by the government. This is exactly why CA is a crap hole. If this passes through the court system more business will pull out.
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So why bother releasing someone from prison if you can't trust them? I mean. I understand the concern. Especially a business which needs high level security. But that isn't what we are talking about here. We are talking about Home Depot or a gas station too.

"Some" businesses hire them. Ok? But let me ask you: what do you expect them to do once released from prison? If they can't get a job? **** Em? Right? The objective of our system should be to produce productive members of society and remove the ones who cannot be. You can't produce a productive member of society if you don't give them the tools. That is the point of parole.
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

Moot said:
Perhaps the employers should be more specific and ask the applicant if they've ever molested a child or committed a violent crime, instead.

I think those are two crimes that should not be immune from any employers asking.
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Absolutely. That makes perfect sense.
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

blackjack50 said:
Why don't we skip the parole and just put all offenders to death? Would you prefer that? You don't want them to get jobs. So obviously you don't want them to get back and be productive members of society, so **** Em, kill them all. At least we won't have any repeat offenders.
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That is quite a leap from what you read in my post isn't it?

Where did I say that they shouldn't have jobs, or be put to death, or not wanting them to have productive lives?

I back certain felons for having their gun rights restored, voting privileges restored, and other rights depending on the circumstances of their convictions, and I have said so in a few others posts on this forum.

But with that said....... I would not hire a convicted bank robber to run a loan department, or a convicted child molester to baby sit for me.

I think you knee jerked just a little bit?
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

Captain Adverse said:
If someone did the crime, and then completed their time...

...they should be treated like any other citizen.

I don't believe that asking if a person has a criminal record on a job application serves any useful purpose.

On the other hand, holding a criminal record against someone seeking a job only serves to encourage recidivism.
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So, once a pedophile has done his time you'd hire him to work in a grammar school. How liberal of you? Or, perhaps you'd prefer having a serial rapist who has served his time working in a battered women's shelter? How about a convicted embezzler working in a bank? Or, Bernie Madoff handling investments when he gets out of jail. Charles Manson as a scout leader? Had he lived to finish his sentence Jeffrey Dahlmer could have gone on to be a chef.

I have hired ex-cons. I have nothing agains hiring ex-cons but I am totally opposed to Democrats hiding information from citizens who need to know for their own protection. I realize, protecting pedophiles, rapists, and murderers is more important to liberals than protecting the rest of us.
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

Call the waaaaaaambulance.

Now I guess certain employers will have to find another excuse to avoid hiring young men of color.
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

AtlantaAdonis said:
Call the waaaaaaambulance.

Now I guess certain employers will have to find another excuse to avoid hiring young men of color.
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Another racist who assumes ex-cons must be black. After Democrats have made sure they can't read and write the criminal history isn't critical. The two ex-cons I hired to paint my house were white so that will probably support Adonis' racists views. Sadly, for Democrats and other liberals, everything is about race. That's how we've gotten the most racist president in 75 years.

It isn't just jobs. Democrats are desperate to have pedophiles and rapists voting, too.
"Minnesota’s Secretary of State, Steve Simon, has tried to frustrate investigation into illegal voting by refusing to turn over either to polling places or to the plaintiffs in the lawsuit the complete list, which the state maintains, of those who have lost their voting rights. It is hard to see any possible reason why this list should be a secret, other than the Democrats’ desire that convicted felons, who overwhelmingly vote their way, get away with voting illegally."
Rampant Voter Fraud Alleged In Minnesota | Power Line
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

Moot said:
Perhaps the employers should be more specific and ask the applicant if they've ever molested a child or committed a violent crime, instead.

I think those are two crimes that should not be immune from any employers asking.
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Not allowed if this law passes
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

SMTA said:
Save your indignation - similar laws already in place.
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If the government wants to put the trust of the public in jeapordy then it will be on them when something happens.
Attempting to silence what could be considered free speech is unconstutional. I am also not sure anyone in the city of SF challenged the law. If the state tries it I am sure someone will sue.

A company has a right to know if you are a criminal or had been.
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

blackjack50 said:
So why bother releasing someone from prison if you can't trust them? I mean. I understand the concern. Especially a business which needs high level security. But that isn't what we are talking about here. We are talking about Home Depot or a gas station too.

"Some" businesses hire them. Ok? But let me ask you: what do you expect them to do once released from prison? If they can't get a job? **** Em? Right? The objective of our system should be to produce productive members of society and remove the ones who cannot be. You can't produce a productive member of society if you don't give them the tools. That is the point of parole.
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It isn't my fault they can't get a job. But I am not about to tell a bank they have to hire someone that committed armed robbery either.

So you would hire a child molester to watch your kids. They served their time why would you deny them employment.
Or we can use some logic and common sense.
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

RetiredUSN said:
That is quite a leap from what you read in my post isn't it?

Where did I say that they shouldn't have jobs, or be put to death, or not wanting them to have productive lives?

I back certain felons for having their gun rights restored, voting privileges restored, and other rights depending on the circumstances of their convictions, and I have said so in a few others posts on this forum.

But with that said....... I would not hire a convicted bank robber to run a loan department, or a convicted child molester to baby sit for me.

I think you knee jerked just a little bit?
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It was an intentional Reductio ad absurdum. I took it to the extremes because my statement was clearly walking a fine line to what you responded too. I see both sides. But the fact is...if you aren't giving them life or a death penalty...you MUST provide them an opportunity to prove themselves in society. EVEN child molesters.

That doesn't mean work in a day care center. That means WORK. The post is talking about ANY job. What does a bank have to do with child molesting? See what I am getting at here? Allowing the business to bar an employee based on criminal record REALLY only makes sense if said person's crime applies to the job.

Bank robber in a bank? No. Child molester In a day care? No. Drug addict in a pharmacy? No. Drug addict and dealer in a mechanic shop? Why not?
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

ludin said:
It isn't my fault they can't get a job. But I am not about to tell a bank they have to hire someone that committed armed robbery either.

So you would hire a child molester to watch your kids. They served their time why would you deny them employment.
Or we can use some logic and common sense.
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Sure. It isn't your fault. They had their chance. Let's just gas them all then? Right? They screwed up.
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

blackjack50 said:
Sure. It isn't your fault. They had their chance. Let's just gas them all then? Right? They screwed up.
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Thank you for dodging the argument your refusal to answer is noted
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

ludin said:
Thank you for dodging the argument your refusal to answer is noted
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Like it or not, what I gave you was an answer. You just don't like it. I'm highlighting the fact that the mentality of "it ain't my fault" is only going to breed more repeat offenders. Like I said, why don't we just gas them? What do you care if it isn't your fault? Hey, if you aren't comfortable with execution, then we can just lock them all away for life.

If you aren't going to encourage a proper release into society...why bother letting people out? If they can't get a job...you KNOW what they are going to do.

Quite frankly...what YOU are doing is the non answer to the important question: what do we do with offenders who have SERVED there time. They are free men. I am ok with certain provisions. Mandatory counseling, sexual offender registries, and so on. But if someone can't get a job...you are asking them to become a criminal again. And that is on YOU.
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

blackjack50 said:
Like it or not, what I gave you was an answer. You just don't like it. I'm highlighting the fact that the mentality of "it ain't my fault" is only going to breed more repeat offenders. Like I said, why don't we just gas them? What do you care if it isn't your fault? Hey, if you aren't comfortable with execution, then we can just lock them all away for life.

If you aren't going to encourage a proper release into society...why bother letting people out? If they can't get a job...you KNOW what they are going to do.

Quite frankly...what YOU are doing is the non answer to the important question: what do we do with offenders who have SERVED there time. They are free men. I am ok with certain provisions. Mandatory counseling, sexual offender registries, and so on. But if someone can't get a job...you are asking them to become a criminal again. And that is on YOU.
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No you didn't give an answer you dodged it.

I never said they couldn't get a job. What I said was the government has no business fining businesses for protecting their interests.

A sex offender is free man would you let him watch your kids?
Try not to dodge this time
 
Re: LA moves toward fining companies -- for asking job applicants about criminal hist

MickeyW said:
Businesses that ask a job applicant about his or her criminal history during the hiring process could be fined and forced to pay the applicant up to $500 under a new law being considered by city leaders.

A Los Angeles City Council committee backed a plan Tuesday to penalize businesses that weed out applicants based on criminal convictions.

The rules are part of a law under consideration by the council aimed at giving former convicts a better shot at obtaining employment.

The Ban the Box ordinance, approved in concept last year by the council, bans private employers with 10 or more workers from asking questions related to an applicant’s criminal history before a conditional offer of employment has been made.

LA City Hall panel backs fining companies for asking applicants about past crimes
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Sounds reasonable. One of the main reasons for high rescividism rates is a felon's inability to get an honest job. Unless we want to shoot them, we owe them some protection after they've served their time.
 
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