• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Jonathan Turley on Trump’s emergency declaration: ‘Democrats will lose’ on merits of case

D

Doc91478

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
2,778
Reaction score
790
Location
North East
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Jonathan Turley on Trump’s emergency declaration: ‘Democrats will lose’ on merits of case​


Legal expert Jonathan Turley on Trump’s emergency declaration: ‘Democrats will lose’ on merits of case
By Jon Dougherty ~~ George Washington University Law School professor Jonathan Turley, a noted constitutional expert, explained the difference on Friday between President Barack Obama’s legal case involving lawsuits against Obamacare and President Donald Trump’s national emergency declaration.
“They’re using the case where I represented the House of Representatives against Obamacare. And we won. But this is not the same case,” Turley said on “Fox & Friends.
“What President Obama did was order the Treasury essentially to be opened up and to pay insurance companies. That’s a different type of funding.”
“What Trump is going to do is he’s going to use money that was appropriated by Congress. It just doesn’t have these tight conditions on them. That’s Congress’ decision to make. They can appropriate money and not put many conditions on.
“So it’s going to be a different fight,” Turley continued.... The president himself essentially laid out the legal strategy that will be employed by his political opponents on Friday when he announced he would use an emergency declaration to secure funding for the border wall. He said he believes he’ll be sued — most likely in the Leftist 9th Circuit, where he’ll lose the first few rounds — but will eventually prevail at the U.S. Supreme Court.


~~~~~~
Wall construction and litigation is perfectly timed to be a 2020 election issue. Americans by 70% support a wall to defend against criminal invasion.
Both on Statutory and Constitutional grounds, PDJT wins this one.... hands-down. They will undoubtedly find several judges who will be more than willing to execute a corrupt bargain with the Democrats. But, the attempts will be quickly swept aside probably without any effect on the schedule. This will end up as a Supreme Court Decision.
Progressive Marxist Socialist Democrats are just alienating themselves more and more the average American voter with all this commie-leftist and anti-American bullcrap, overt obstructionism and resistance.
 
Doc91478 said:
Jonathan Turley on Trump’s emergency declaration: ‘Democrats will lose’ on merits of case​


Legal expert Jonathan Turley on Trump’s emergency declaration: ‘Democrats will lose’ on merits of case
By Jon Dougherty ~~ George Washington University Law School professor Jonathan Turley, a noted constitutional expert, explained the difference on Friday between President Barack Obama’s legal case involving lawsuits against Obamacare and President Donald Trump’s national emergency declaration.
“They’re using the case where I represented the House of Representatives against Obamacare. And we won. But this is not the same case,” Turley said on “Fox & Friends.
“What President Obama did was order the Treasury essentially to be opened up and to pay insurance companies. That’s a different type of funding.”
“What Trump is going to do is he’s going to use money that was appropriated by Congress. It just doesn’t have these tight conditions on them. That’s Congress’ decision to make. They can appropriate money and not put many conditions on.
“So it’s going to be a different fight,” Turley continued.... The president himself essentially laid out the legal strategy that will be employed by his political opponents on Friday when he announced he would use an emergency declaration to secure funding for the border wall. He said he believes he’ll be sued — most likely in the Leftist 9th Circuit, where he’ll lose the first few rounds — but will eventually prevail at the U.S. Supreme Court.


~~~~~~
Wall construction and litigation is perfectly timed to be a 2020 election issue. Americans by 70% support a wall to defend against criminal invasion.
Both on Statutory and Constitutional grounds, PDJT wins this one.... hands-down. They will undoubtedly find several judges who will be more than willing to execute a corrupt bargain with the Democrats. But, the attempts will be quickly swept aside probably without any effect on the schedule. This will end up as a Supreme Court Decision.
Progressive Marxist Socialist Democrats are just alienating themselves more and more the average American voter with all this commie-leftist and anti-American bullcrap, overt obstructionism and resistance.
Click to expand...
I haven't seen the bolded at all. Everything I've seen shows the majority of Americans do not favor Trump's wall. And even more (2:1) are against his emergency action.
 
Chomsky said:
I haven't seen the bolded at all. Everything I've seen shows the majority of Americans do not favor Trump's wall. And even more (2:1) are against his emergency action.
Click to expand...



Did you expect anything else?

We're talking indoctrination here, a la The Kremlin and 400 years of Russian authoritarianism, if there is a group of humanity that knows oppression techniques, it is the Russians.

Putin is laughing his ass off.

Stay asleep Amerika, there is nothing to see here...
 
Fearandloathing said:
Did you expect anything else?

We're talking indoctrination here, a la The Kremlin and 400 years of Russian authoritarianism, if there is a group of humanity that knows oppression techniques, it is the Russians.

Putin is laughing his ass off.

Stay asleep Amerika, there is nothing to see here...
Click to expand...
Heh. I haven't seen that term, since I read Abbie Hoffman's "Steal this Book".

And yeah, I actually bought (paid for) my copy. Kroch's & Brentano's hired a security guard specifically to stand in front of the shelve with the newly released 1st editions. Too many were walking out the door!
 
Chomsky said:
Heh. I haven't seen that term, since I read Abbie Hoffman's "Steal this Book".

And yeah, I actually bought (paid for) my copy. Kroch's & Brentano's hired a security guard specifically to stand in front of the shelve with the newly released 1st editions. Too many were walking out the door!
Click to expand...



We fixed that.

They had guards at the store in Detroit, so we created a diversion by picking up a statue and pedistal and got it out the door. The guards of course chased us, we set it down and ran like the wing.

Meanwhile, confederates dressed like "straights" grabbed about a dozen books.

Did I mention Port Huron to you?
 
Fearandloathing said:
We fixed that.

They had guards at the store in Detroit, so we created a diversion by picking up a statue and pedistal and got it out the door. The guards of course chased us, we set it down and ran like the wing.

Meanwhile, confederates dressed like "straights" grabbed about a dozen books.

Did I mention Port Huron to you?
Click to expand...
Sounds like you were the real deal, my friend. You know, I love these stories of the day. I've got to remember Port Huron was just outside Detroit. And both the SDS and the Weathermen had a huge presence at U of I Chicago Circle. FWIW, Bill Ayers & Bernadette Dhorn still live in Chicago, where he teaches at U of I, and she is a law professor at Northwestern.

Both are politically active in local government. I've yet to read Bill Ayer's book, and I'm not sure if Bernadette ever wrote one - but it might be superfluous seeing as we have Bill's.

But it's hard to believe how different it was then, from now. Yeah, there was too much drugs (and maturity & niavete), adding to the sky-high idealism. But damn; how did it all dissipate? It just seemed to have vanished into thin air.
 
Last edited:
Chomsky said:
Sounds like you were the real deal, my friend. You know, I love these stories of the day. I've got to remember Port Huron was just outside Detroit. And both the SDS and the Weathermen had a huge presence at U of I Chicago Circle. FWIW, Bill Ayers & Bernadette Dhorn still live in Chicago, where he teaches at U of I, and she is a law professor at Northwestern.

Both are politically active in local government. I've yet to read Bill Ayer's book, and I'm not sure if Bernadette ever wrote one - but it might be superfluous seeing as we have Bill's.

But it's hard to believe how different it was then, from now. Yeah, there was too much drugs (and maturity & niavete), adding to the sky-high idealism. But damn; how did it all dissipate? It just seemed to have vanished into thin air.
Click to expand...



We grew up, got jobs, girlfriends, etc.

Once I was hired as a journalist I could not participate, only watch and report. Others found different ways; as for me returning to the land of my birth fixed several problems, not the least of which was the draft.

But even then, Canada had a different attitude. I could never get my Canadian friends to join me on a trek to a demonstration in Michigan or New York. They all went to the beach on week ends where there were girls, just as may drugs, dancing, singing, sand, and sex and no tear gas.

What it was like, Grand Bend was The Teen hang out, bands on the beach, all of it and the town would take on a carnival atmosphere. One day I saw this ass hole kid grab a hat off a policeman's head and disappear into a crowd. Being new to Canada I braced, it was an OPP (Ontario Provincial Police - see Sgt Peppers) thinking for sure SWAT was being unleashed on the citizenry. He have chase but lost him, he looked really worried, not mad. When we learned he could lose his job we ganged up and found the kid, made him give it back. If we hadn't we were going to take up a collection for a new one.

Demonstrating in Canada had no relevancy.
 
Chomsky said:
Sounds like you were the real deal, my friend. You know, I love these stories of the day. I've got to remember Port Huron was just outside Detroit. And both the SDS and the Weathermen had a huge presence at U of I Chicago Circle. FWIW, Bill Ayers & Bernadette Dhorn still live in Chicago, where he teaches at U of I, and she is a law professor at Northwestern.

Both are politically active in local government. I've yet to read Bill Ayer's book, and I'm not sure if Bernadette ever wrote one - but it might be superfluous seeing as we have Bill's.

But it's hard to believe how different it was then, from now. Yeah, there was too much drugs (and maturity & niavete), adding to the sky-high idealism. But damn; how did it all dissipate? It just seemed to have vanished into thin air.
Click to expand...

~~~~~~
Did it dissipate as you claim, or has it been festering like a boil to be finally lanced to remove the infection of false hatred of those accused by people spawned by the same false ideology as William Ayers and his wife Bernadine?
 
Fearandloathing said:
We grew up, got jobs, girlfriends, etc.

Once I was hired as a journalist I could not participate, only watch and report. Others found different ways; as for me returning to the land of my birth fixed several problems, not the least of which was the draft.

But even then, Canada had a different attitude. I could never get my Canadian friends to join me on a trek to a demonstration in Michigan or New York. They all went to the beach on week ends where there were girls, just as may drugs, dancing, singing, sand, and sex and no tear gas.

What it was like, Grand Bend was The Teen hang out, bands on the beach, all of it and the town would take on a carnival atmosphere. One day I saw this ass hole kid grab a hat off a policeman's head and disappear into a crowd. Being new to Canada I braced, it was an OPP (Ontario Provincial Police - see Sgt Peppers) thinking for sure SWAT was being unleashed on the citizenry. He have chase but lost him, he looked really worried, not mad. When we learned he could lose his job we ganged up and found the kid, made him give it back. If we hadn't we were going to take up a collection for a new one.

Demonstrating in Canada had no relevancy.
Click to expand...
Damn. I never knew of the OPP/Beatles/Sgt Pepper relationship. How the hell did I miss that? For over ... a half century? I feel embarrassed, as hell!

Great story about the Canadian ethos. They're easily the most co-operating society in North America.

And I hear you with the draft. One side of my family immigrated through Canada, leaving quite a few relatives and spawn there. I watched the draft lotto every time, and was getting close to draft age. The year before, my number came-up and if I was a year older I would have been called. This totally freaked-out my Mom, and she insisted I go to the relatives up north. My Dad, who proudly enlisted to serve in Korea along with his brother, was aghast that either my Mom or I would even consider dodging the draft.

It was quite the scene in my house that year. It broke my old man's heart to think my mother was trying to get me to dodge - by leaving America - and that I might turn my back on everything he stood for. But despite how much it would hurt him, he seemed begrudgingly willing to accept me going to Canada if I chose, due to his love for me and respecting my convictions. I'll never forget that as much as I would hurt him by leaving, his love for me was greater than his (great) love for the country. And I came to realize I was fortunate to have a father that would accept my decision here, and give me unconditional love. Not all guys had that.

Anyway, the cease-fire and peace talks continued, despite arguing about the damn size and shape of the negotiation table, and it ended and I never got called. So I never had to make that decision. And trust me, it was one helluva' tough decision to make. Because I loved my family's newly adopted homeland after their leaving Europe, but I really had a strong anti-war conviction; a very strong anti-war conviction.
 
Doc91478 said:
~~~~~~
Did it dissipate as you claim, or has it been festering like a boil to be finally lanced to remove the infection of false hatred of those accused by people spawned by the same false ideology as William Ayers and his wife Bernadine?
Click to expand...
I don't see anything today that matches the breadth or depth of the 60's anti-war & counter-cultural movement. The war was the focal point, but the broader point was the revolution.

I don't see anything comparing to it, today. And the violence back then, particularly in terms of bombings, was absolutely beyond any comparison to today.
 
Chomsky said:
Damn. I never knew of the OPP/Beatles/Sgt Pepper relationship. How the hell did I miss that? For over ... a half century? I feel embarrassed, as hell!

Great story about the Canadian ethos. They're easily the most co-operating society in North America.

And I hear you with the draft. One side of my family immigrated through Canada, leaving quite a few relatives and spawn there. I watched the draft lotto every time, and was getting close to draft age. The year before, my number came-up and if I was a year older I would have been called. This totally freaked-out my Mom, and she insisted I go to the relatives up north. My Dad, who proudly enlisted to serve in Korea along with his brother, was aghast that either my Mom or I would even consider dodging the draft.

It was quite the scene in my house that year. It broke my old man's heart to think my mother was trying to get me to dodge - by leaving America - and that I might turn my back on everything he stood for. But despite how much it would hurt him, he seemed begrudgingly willing to accept me going to Canada if I chose, due to his love for me and respecting my convictions. I'll never forget that as much as I would hurt him by leaving, his love for me was greater than his (great) love for the country. And I came to realize I was fortunate to have a father that would accept my decision here, and give me unconditional love. Not all guys had that.

Anyway, the cease-fire and peace talks continued, despite arguing about the damn size and shape of the negotiation table, and it ended and I never got called. So I never had to make that decision. And trust me, it was one helluva' tough decision to make. Because I loved my family's newly adopted homeland after their leaving Europe, but I really had a strong anti-war conviction; a very strong anti-war conviction.
Click to expand...



That was the problem of the war in Vietnam. The "Great Generation", my dad, your dad was the toughest generation there has even been. They went through two world wars and a long, hungry depression, and beat them both down along with finding a vaccine for polio, invent the radio and the telephone ...and television!
My dad served by making bomb sites, he was a master machinist and wouldn't be sent to battle. The work was not only precision but top secret - he worked in what was then a converted barn in St Catherines, Ontario in what was labelled "chain manufacturing" to confuse enemy spies.
But his brother and my mothers brother all served for Canada and the US (Canada was in WW2 two years longer than the US) and THEY believed in their cause; it perhaps was the only "just" war in history. So, the call of Vietnam was a matter of loyalty to them.
That heartfelt love of country was underscored by my mother's relatives being rescued from the prison camps in Germany and sent to America and freedom.
No, you don't **** with people who have been through **** like that and can't expect them to understand what we knew - they TRUSTED their government and their government saved the day.
They could not conceive of a government that would lie to them about war! But the Bay of Pigs fiasco and the "Cuban Missile Crisis" (let's call it what it was - the Turkey Missile crisis - Kruschev was sending nukes to Cuba BECAUSE the US had nukes in Turkey) They could not conceive of a government that was behind the "Pentagon Papers" or that the leaders of their "great nation" would be so deceitful as to lie so greatly about an "unwinable war". They could not conceive of a Daniel Elsberg, or the White House taping system and John Dean was simply too "American" to be saying the stuff he said.
They're generation was betrayed. Their love of country and loyalty were taken for granted and treated cynically. But in the initial stages,. being young with long hair was "treason". And Nixon said as much the week before they opened fire and killed three innocent bystanders in a dirty sewer of a city called Kent, Ohio.

My dad was torn. He was proud of me because I chose the hard way to go. I took a stand and stayed there and have all my life. But he loved his country. He was a strong union man, UAW, and fairly liberal. We had many "interesting" conversations, usually while hunting together. It was not until Kent State that he began to wonder. I was in Canada then, in college taking journalism. That was when our conversations changed. I took him to the Draft Dodger drop in/coffee house.
But I don't think he ever fully understood what it meant for those guys who left knowing they would never be able to return. I don't think he ever approved, but at least he had stopped judging.
 
Fearandloathing said:
That was the problem of the war in Vietnam. The "Great Generation", my dad, your dad was the toughest generation there has even been. They went through two world wars and a long, hungry depression, and beat them both down along with finding a vaccine for polio, invent the radio and the telephone ...and television!
My dad served by making bomb sites, he was a master machinist and wouldn't be sent to battle. The work was not only precision but top secret - he worked in what was then a converted barn in St Catherines, Ontario in what was labelled "chain manufacturing" to confuse enemy spies.
But his brother and my mothers brother all served for Canada and the US (Canada was in WW2 two years longer than the US) and THEY believed in their cause; it perhaps was the only "just" war in history. So, the call of Vietnam was a matter of loyalty to them.
That heartfelt love of country was underscored by my mother's relatives being rescued from the prison camps in Germany and sent to America and freedom.
No, you don't **** with people who have been through **** like that and can't expect them to understand what we knew - they TRUSTED their government and their government saved the day.
They could not conceive of a government that would lie to them about war! But the Bay of Pigs fiasco and the "Cuban Missile Crisis" (let's call it what it was - the Turkey Missile crisis - Kruschev was sending nukes to Cuba BECAUSE the US had nukes in Turkey) They could not conceive of a government that was behind the "Pentagon Papers" or that the leaders of their "great nation" would be so deceitful as to lie so greatly about an "unwinable war". They could not conceive of a Daniel Elsberg, or the White House taping system and John Dean was simply too "American" to be saying the stuff he said.
They're generation was betrayed. Their love of country and loyalty were taken for granted and treated cynically. But in the initial stages,. being young with long hair was "treason". And Nixon said as much the week before they opened fire and killed three innocent bystanders in a dirty sewer of a city called Kent, Ohio.

My dad was torn. He was proud of me because I chose the hard way to go. I took a stand and stayed there and have all my life. But he loved his country. He was a strong union man, UAW, and fairly liberal. We had many "interesting" conversations, usually while hunting together. It was not until Kent State that he began to wonder. I was in Canada then, in college taking journalism. That was when our conversations changed. I took him to the Draft Dodger drop in/coffee house.
But I don't think he ever fully understood what it meant for those guys who left knowing they would never be able to return. I don't think he ever approved, but at least he had stopped judging.
Click to expand...
You described the scene back-then very well, IMO. Your situation with your father has a lot of similarities to mine, and we have similar family experiences - except my Dad & grandfather luckily made it out just as Adolph was making it in. But hell, it brought a tear to my eye!

We may have been overly idealistic, immature, and niave, but it was our fathers that could not come to grips with the betrayal. That's why so many vets came back screwed up, and not just from the Agent Orange. They had to reconcile all this while trying to survive in the hell-hole of 'Nam, doing terrible acts that they may have come to question their validity. It was a **** situation to send 19yo boys into, most against their will.

Anyway, this vet tells a pretty interesting story - if you're interested:


 
Chomsky said:
I haven't seen the bolded at all. Everything I've seen shows the majority of Americans do not favor Trump's wall. And even more (2:1) are against his emergency action.
Click to expand...

Suburban women want the wall, buoying Trump after fleeing in 2018

Suburban women want the wall, buoying Trump after fleeing in 2018

Suburban women, after fleeing Republicans in the 2018 midterm congressional elections, are coming back to President Trump.

The reason: many want his border wall.

A remarkable new Zogby Analytics poll found that suburban women, more than likely voters, support the wall and Trump’s emergency declaration that will allow him to spend more to build it than Congress has OK’d.

The numbers: 45 percent of suburban women want the president to find other sources of money to build the border wall, versus 40 percent who don’t. And 50 percent back his emergency declaration.
 
Common Sense 1 said:
Suburban women want the wall, buoying Trump after fleeing in 2018

Suburban women want the wall, buoying Trump after fleeing in 2018

Suburban women, after fleeing Republicans in the 2018 midterm congressional elections, are coming back to President Trump.

The reason: many want his border wall.

A remarkable new Zogby Analytics poll found that suburban women, more than likely voters, support the wall and Trump’s emergency declaration that will allow him to spend more to build it than Congress has OK’d.

The numbers: 45 percent of suburban women want the president to find other sources of money to build the border wall, versus 40 percent who don’t. And 50 percent back his emergency declaration.
Click to expand...
I must firstly point-out no data in the body of that article supports the title alluding to the majority of suburban women wanting the wall.

Also, I'm not familiar enough with the accuracy of Zogby's polls, as to know whether to accept this poll carte-blanche. I'm not denying the poll, but would need to see further correlation from other polls. For what it's worth, 538.com rates Zogby a 'C'.

The poll could be right, as Trump's approvals have pretty strongly rebounded since the shutdown. If true, this would be a big development.
 
Last edited:
Chomsky said:
You described the scene back-then very well, IMO. Your situation with your father has a lot of similarities to mine, and we have similar family experiences - except my Dad & grandfather luckily made it out just as Adolph was making it in. But hell, it brought a tear to my eye!

We may have been overly idealistic, immature, and niave, but it was our fathers that could not come to grips with the betrayal. That's why so many vets came back screwed up, and not just from the Agent Orange. They had to reconcile all this while trying to survive in the hell-hole of 'Nam, doing terrible acts that they may have come to question their validity. It was a **** situation to send 19yo boys into, most against their will.

Anyway, this vet tells a pretty interesting story - if you're interested:


Click to expand...



His story supports so many who were there. I recall that until Mi Ly, the majority of Americans denied the US engaged in atrocities. His relaying the fact the Cong didn't need to recruit....the US Army and Marine Corps drove people to fight them.

Clearly it taught the nation nothing.

What REALLY bothers me is how fast the US reversed course and suddenly Vietnam was an American tourist destination. Today Americans speak highly of Vietnamese, but to this day Cuba remains an enemy. Americans simply cannot see they were the bad guys in both Cuba and Vietnam. The US maintains strict trade sanctions of the island nation, for no reason that anyone has been able to make sense to me. The Americans did far more to civilians than Castro even contemplated and Russia continues to do so as well as the other giant "trading partner" China.

Usually when I ask why Cuba is sanctioned Americans struggle. They start out and you can watch as they realize there really any reason to continue, in fact the US should have to pay retributions to Cuba. But then, 80% of Americans don't consider that the US didn't do any wrong by backing an invasion of a neighbor based ENTIRELY on ideology.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom