• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

A sad, sad day

Lafayette

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Messages
9,594
Reaction score
2,072
Location
France
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Yesterday was a sad, sad day for America and particularly American women.


That someone, man OR woman, with an accused and testified background of sexual harassment could be admitted to the HIghest Court in the Land is inadmissible in any decently functioning democracy ...




20181006_wwd000.jpg
 
Yesterday was a sad, sad day for America and particularly American women.


That someone, man OR woman, with an accused and testified background of sexual harassment could be admitted to the HIghest Court in the Land is inadmissible in any decently functioning democracy ...




20181006_wwd000.jpg

You would have a point if "proven" was added to your statement......
 
Yesterday was a sad, sad day for America and particularly American women.


That someone, man OR woman, with an accused and testified background of sexual harassment could be admitted to the HIghest Court in the Land is inadmissible in any decently functioning democracy ...




20181006_wwd000.jpg

The handful of disgruntled democrats lost again as the massively popular 'Make America Great' Trump train rolls on.
 
Yesterday was a sad, sad day for America and particularly American women.


That someone, man OR woman, with an accused and testified background of sexual harassment could be admitted to the HIghest Court in the Land is inadmissible in any decently functioning democracy ...




20181006_wwd000.jpg

No a sad day was when the bs artist leftists tried to smear an innocent man and exploited a woman in the process. Good always triumphs over evil so spare us your men are evil mantra, if you guys actually gave a **** about women you wouldnt have exploited three of them here.
 
Yesterday was a sad, sad day for America and particularly American women.


That someone, man OR woman, with an accused and testified background of sexual harassment could be admitted to the HIghest Court in the Land is inadmissible in any decently functioning democracy ...




~snipped your stupid pic~

Accusations should never be enough to convict...not even in the court of public opinion.
 
You would have a point if "proven" was added to your statement......

A crime that is exceedingly difficult to prove, but I would agree if we were talking about a criminal trial. That's a can of worms unto itself, and quite frankly, I'm not certain as to what is and is not 'evidence', and this whole affair has caused me to think more deeply on that front. This whole thing has caused me to ask myself questions that I do not have the answer for.

This, however, was a job interview. We didn't have to appoint Kavanaugh. We could have deemed the allegations problematic enough to pick another candidate. Trump could have appointed another conservative, he could have quietly retracted his nomination and got another guy in that would have done that which the right is clamoring for. The Democrats would have to be insane for trying for round two with another justice, and if the previous nomination is any indication, they wouldn't have, because they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

I can not meet the 'beyond a reasonable doubt' requirement that some call for, but I don't feel that this is needed in order to decide whether or not he should be a supreme-court justice. It's problematic for me that he has five accusers, though I readily admit that I do not believe all accusers. It's more problematic to me that he's given answers about his year-book and past behavior that's obviously ridiculous. We all know what a 'devil's triangle' really is, and it would have done a lot towards my opinion of his character if he had actually admitted as much.

In an earlier poll thread, when asked whether or not we would except the conclusion of the FBI investigation, I answered with a 'yes'. I'm going to have to renig on that, I'm afraid. After five days, and extremely limited interviews, I don't think there was much of an investigation at all. This has all the hallmarks of appeasement, more than anything else. I understand that we've got a dead-line set by the potential turning of Congress, but we have until January before that takes effect. Personally if I was Kavanaugh, I would have wanted the investigation sooner, and to be far more thorough—It's an ugly reality that a person's reputation can be tarnished by mere allegations, and I would personally want to do all I can to put the public at rest. This wasn't that.

Based on what I seen, I don't think Kavanaugh could or should be convicted in a court of law. I don't think that he should have been confirmed, either. I'm not in the camp that believes that accusations should be automatically believed. However, I feel that after Ford's testimony, Kavanaugh's pathetic attempt at lying about his past, and this absolute joke of an FBI investigation, we should have gone with another conservative, someone else on Trump's 'short-list', and that the way this whole thing has been treated sends a clear message to women in regards to the futility of coming out.
 
Yesterday was a sad, sad day for America and particularly American women.


That someone, man OR woman, with an accused and testified background of sexual harassment could be admitted to the HIghest Court in the Land is inadmissible in any decently functioning democracy ...
Wrong. 'Decently functioning democracies' dont convict people based upon unsupported accusations. That is how poorly functioning despotisms operate. You want to destroy someones career and reputation? Show up with some evidence. Kavanaughs appointment was a victory of reason over mob rule. Not surprising you came down on the wrong side.
 
Yesterday was a sad, sad day for America and particularly American women.


That someone, man OR woman, with an accused and testified background of sexual harassment could be admitted to the HIghest Court in the Land is inadmissible in any decently functioning democracy ...




20181006_wwd000.jpg

Organized any lynchings lately?
 
A crime that is exceedingly difficult to prove, but I would agree if we were talking about a criminal trial. That's a can of worms unto itself, and quite frankly, I'm not certain as to what is and is not 'evidence', and this whole affair has caused me to think more deeply on that front. This whole thing has caused me to ask myself questions that I do not have the answer for.

This, however, was a job interview. We didn't have to appoint Kavanaugh. We could have deemed the allegations problematic enough to pick another candidate. Trump could have appointed another conservative, he could have quietly retracted his nomination and got another guy in that would have done that which the right is clamoring for. The Democrats would have to be insane for trying for round two with another justice, and if the previous nomination is any indication, they wouldn't have, because they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

I can not meet the 'beyond a reasonable doubt' requirement that some call for, but I don't feel that this is needed in order to decide whether or not he should be a supreme-court justice. It's problematic for me that he has five accusers, though I readily admit that I do not believe all accusers. It's more problematic to me that he's given answers about his year-book and past behavior that's obviously ridiculous. We all know what a 'devil's triangle' really is, and it would have done a lot towards my opinion of his character if he had actually admitted as much.

In an earlier poll thread, when asked whether or not we would except the conclusion of the FBI investigation, I answered with a 'yes'. I'm going to have to renig on that, I'm afraid. After five days, and extremely limited interviews, I don't think there was much of an investigation at all. This has all the hallmarks of appeasement, more than anything else. I understand that we've got a dead-line set by the potential turning of Congress, but we have until January before that takes effect. Personally if I was Kavanaugh, I would have wanted the investigation sooner, and to be far more thorough—It's an ugly reality that a person's reputation can be tarnished by mere allegations, and I would personally want to do all I can to put the public at rest. This wasn't that.

Based on what I seen, I don't think Kavanaugh could or should be convicted in a court of law. I don't think that he should have been confirmed, either. I'm not in the camp that believes that accusations should be automatically believed. However, I feel that after Ford's testimony, Kavanaugh's pathetic attempt at lying about his past, and this absolute joke of an FBI investigation, we should have gone with another conservative, someone else on Trump's 'short-list', and that the way this whole thing has been treated sends a clear message to women in regards to the futility of coming out.

The whole talking point about "it's a job interview, not a trial" is simply absurd to me. To be honest, I could understand not feeling that the criminal (or even civil) standard of proof being needed but to simply go off nothing but an accusation with little information and zero evidence is preposterous and should be condemned as nothing but partisan hackery.

As far as the "Devil's Triangle", there have been several classmates that have sent letters to the Senate committee that it was a drinking game that they had created for themselves, and also 2 people that learned of the game from Quinn at Boston College.( https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...kQCg&usg=AOvVaw3QqOjgao28yUWzL2P3Sgzd&ampcf=1 , Link if interested)

As far as you going back on your vote in the FBI thread, no offense but I doubt anyone is shocked and that was pretty much the expected outcome of those that voted yes and didn't recieve the information they wanted. Anyone that thought anything was going to come out of that investigation was merely fooling themselves and it wasn't the length of the investigation that was the issue or how it was handled, it was simply the fact that there was too little of information to go off of. The investigation could have been finished in a single day if they wanted or they could have spent 5 years and came back with the same information. I would have been skeptical had they actually found anything that proved or disproved the allegations.
 
During a job interview...I am not allowed to use "he said she said" when determining an applicants eligibility. If I did, I could wind up in a lot of legal trouble.


There's, like....laws, and ****.
 
A crime that is exceedingly difficult to prove, but I would agree if we were talking about a criminal trial. That's a can of worms unto itself, and quite frankly, I'm not certain as to what is and is not 'evidence', and this whole affair has caused me to think more deeply on that front. This whole thing has caused me to ask myself questions that I do not have the answer for.

This, however, was a job interview. We didn't have to appoint Kavanaugh. We could have deemed the allegations problematic enough to pick another candidate. Trump could have appointed another conservative, he could have quietly retracted his nomination and got another guy in that would have done that which the right is clamoring for. The Democrats would have to be insane for trying for round two with another justice, and if the previous nomination is any indication, they wouldn't have, because they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

I can not meet the 'beyond a reasonable doubt' requirement that some call for, but I don't feel that this is needed in order to decide whether or not he should be a supreme-court justice. It's problematic for me that he has five accusers, though I readily admit that I do not believe all accusers. It's more problematic to me that he's given answers about his year-book and past behavior that's obviously ridiculous. We all know what a 'devil's triangle' really is, and it would have done a lot towards my opinion of his character if he had actually admitted as much.

In an earlier poll thread, when asked whether or not we would except the conclusion of the FBI investigation, I answered with a 'yes'. I'm going to have to renig on that, I'm afraid. After five days, and extremely limited interviews, I don't think there was much of an investigation at all. This has all the hallmarks of appeasement, more than anything else. I understand that we've got a dead-line set by the potential turning of Congress, but we have until January before that takes effect. Personally if I was Kavanaugh, I would have wanted the investigation sooner, and to be far more thorough—It's an ugly reality that a person's reputation can be tarnished by mere allegations, and I would personally want to do all I can to put the public at rest. This wasn't that.

Based on what I seen, I don't think Kavanaugh could or should be convicted in a court of law. I don't think that he should have been confirmed, either. I'm not in the camp that believes that accusations should be automatically believed. However, I feel that after Ford's testimony, Kavanaugh's pathetic attempt at lying about his past, and this absolute joke of an FBI investigation, we should have gone with another conservative, someone else on Trump's 'short-list', and that the way this whole thing has been treated sends a clear message to women in regards to the futility of coming out.

This was not a job interview. This was a public exercise in libel and slander by the least ethical a-holes we have ever had the misfortune to have serving in our Senate.

IF Feinstein had the smallest shred of integrity or decency, she would have submitted the letter to the FBI when she received it. Obviously, she does not possess such a shred.

The FBI, if given the letter in July, could then have quietly, behind the scenes, performed their investigation and found that the confused and contradictory allegations from Ford were entirely unsupported by any evidence whatever.

Feinstein has shown herself to be a partisan hack with nor morals or honesty. She recommended the attorneys to Ford. Either Feinstein or the attorneys leaked the letter. The Attorneys did not execute their duties ethically and withheld vital information from their client.

Feinstein, the attorneys she recommended, Spartacus and the rest are self serving, unethical partisans working only to deceive the weak minded.

Ford, as well as Kavanaugh and the rest of the country are their victims.
 
Last edited:
Wrong. 'Decently functioning democracies' dont convict people based upon unsupported accusations. That is how poorly functioning despotisms operate. You want to destroy someones career and reputation? Show up with some evidence. Kavanaughs appointment was a victory of reason over mob rule. Not surprising you came down on the wrong side.

"The Big Lie" is a tool of despots and dictators.

Also of the Democrat Party.
 
During a job interview...I am not allowed to use "he said she said" when determining an applicants eligibility. If I did, I could wind up in a lot of legal trouble.


There's, like....laws, and ****.

Can you imagine the law suit if you hired and fired based on unsupported and unsupportable rumor?
 
This, however, was a job interview. We didn't have to appoint Kavanaugh. We could have deemed the allegations problematic enough to pick another candidate.

Even though we are on opposite sides of the political spectrum, I want you to know I respect your opinions and concerns as they seem very sincere. I did however want to take issue with what I quoted from you above.

The Ford allegations were problematic enough that they deserved to be looked at (which they were), but allegations alone can't be used to disqualify someone nominated to the supreme court or nominated for any other important office or position. To do so would open the flood gates to political shenanigans, and allow politicians to manufacture allegations of sexual improprieties at the drop of a hat to destroy their opponents. Is that a political road you really want politicians to travel down? Washington is already dysfunctional, so I certainly don't want to see that.

As for this particular case, if it was simply a matter of "he said, she said", I could understand some people struggling with who to believe... but it didn't even meet that standard. The fact that Ford couldn't provide a date, time or location for when this assault was committed, deprived Kavanaugh any opportunity to defend himself against the allegations. He couldn't possibly provide any evidence that he didn't attend the gathering on the date and time alleged, if he doesn't know the time, day and location where the assault allegedly took place.

For ford to overcome the lack of physical evidence, not telling anyone when it happened, not filing a police report, along with her inability to provide those details I mentioned, and still be able to make a compelling case against Kavanaugh, she needed outside corroboration. Ford did in fact provide the names of 4 other people she claimed where at the gathering where the assault allegedly occured, but when contacted, none of those people corroborated her story. That includes her life-long friend who not only doesn't remember the gathering Ford described, but stated that she never attended any gathering where Kavanaugh was in attendance, or ever even met Kavanaugh.

When you take into account all that, along with the many inconsistencies in her story over the last few months, as well as her bogus claim that she feared flying in order to delay testifying, I don't see how anyone in good conscience could proclaim that her allegations should have disqualified Kavanaugh from being confirmed.

.
 
Accusations should never be enough to convict...not even in the court of public opinion.

I'm sure many people have been unsuccessful in job interviews due to unproven allegations.

Kavanaugh is not fit due to his performance at the hearing. Partisan conspiracy theories and meltdowns do not inspire confidence. Even a right-wing ex supreme court judge said he wasn't suitable.
 
I'm sure many people have been unsuccessful in job interviews due to unproven allegations.

Kavanaugh is not fit due to his performance at the hearing. Partisan conspiracy theories and meltdowns do not inspire confidence. Even a right-wing ex supreme court judge said he wasn't suitable.

Performance in the hearing?

Which legal question was he inadequate in. Which of his past rulings were problematic?

Or are you talking about his response to being unjustly maligned rather than anything pertinent to sitting on SCOTUS?
 
Even though we are on opposite sides of the political spectrum, I want you to know I respect your opinions and concerns as they seem very sincere. I did however want to take issue with what I quoted from you above.

The Ford allegations were problematic enough that they deserved to be looked at (which they were), but allegations alone can't be used to disqualify someone nominated to the supreme court or nominated for any other important office or position. To do so would open the flood gates to political shenanigans, and allow politicians to manufacture allegations of sexual improprieties at the drop of a hat to destroy their opponents. Is that a political road you really want politicians to travel down? Washington is already dysfunctional, so I certainly don't want to see that.

As for this particular case, if it was simply a matter of "he said, she said", I could understand some people struggling with who to believe... but it didn't even meet that standard. The fact that Ford couldn't provide a date, time or location for when this assault was committed, deprived Kavanaugh any opportunity to defend himself against the allegations. He couldn't possibly provide any evidence that he didn't attend the gathering on the date and time alleged, if he doesn't know the time, day and location where the assault allegedly took place.

For ford to overcome the lack of physical evidence, not telling anyone when it happened, not filing a police report, along with her inability to provide those details I mentioned, and still be able to make a compelling case against Kavanaugh, she needed outside corroboration. Ford did in fact provide the names of 4 other people she claimed where at the gathering where the assault allegedly occured, but when contacted, none of those people corroborated her story. That includes her life-long friend who not only doesn't remember the gathering Ford described, but stated that she never attended any gathering where Kavanaugh was in attendance, or ever even met Kavanaugh.

When you take into account all that, along with the many inconsistencies in her story over the last few months, as well as her bogus claim that she feared flying in order to delay testifying, I don't see how anyone in good conscience could proclaim that her allegations should have disqualified Kavanaugh from being confirmed.

.

I can't "like" this post, so I'll just say that I agree with what you've said here.
 
Performance in the hearing?

Which legal question was he inadequate in. Which of his past rulings were problematic?

Or are you talking about his response to being unjustly maligned rather than anything pertinent to sitting on SCOTUS?

A supreme court nominee openly ranting about the democrat party in itself should be a big no-no. Then there was the tears. If you were interviewing for a high-level job, would you give it to a person who burst into tears in the interview?

Clinton was wrongly accused of being responsible for the deaths in Benghazi and was questioned for 11 hours. She didn't cry or rant; she remained professional.

Even the conservative ex-supreme court judge John Stevens said Kavanaugh wasn't suitable for the job.
 
A supreme court nominee openly ranting about the democrat party in itself should be a big no-no. Then there was the tears. If you were interviewing for a high-level job, would you give it to a person who burst into tears in the interview?

Clinton was wrongly accused of being responsible for the deaths in Benghazi and was questioned for 11 hours. She didn't cry or rant; she remained professional.

Even the conservative ex-supreme court judge John Stevens said Kavanaugh wasn't suitable for the job.

Stevens was by no means whatsoever a "conservative."
 
A supreme court nominee openly ranting about the democrat party in itself should be a big no-no. Then there was the tears. If you were interviewing for a high-level job, would you give it to a person who burst into tears in the interview?

Clinton was wrongly accused of being responsible for the deaths in Benghazi and was questioned for 11 hours. She didn't cry or rant; she remained professional.

Even the conservative ex-supreme court judge John Stevens said Kavanaugh wasn't suitable for the job.

I'd say Kavanaugh, by his "performance", showed the committee, the Senate and the country that he would not be sent scurrying for safety when faced with unfounded allegations pushed on him by disgusting political operatives. He identified the operatives and their motivations. He showed all of us that he will stand up for his decisions, his convictions and his actions.

I'd say those are good qualities to have in a Supreme Court Justice.
 
A supreme court nominee openly ranting about the democrat party in itself should be a big no-no. Then there was the tears. If you were interviewing for a high-level job, would you give it to a person who burst into tears in the interview?

Clinton was wrongly accused of being responsible for the deaths in Benghazi and was questioned for 11 hours. She didn't cry or rant; she remained professional.

Even the conservative ex-supreme court judge John Stevens said Kavanaugh wasn't suitable for the job.

So, nothing about his actual job performance....

Got it.

Oh, you forgot "unhinged" in your description....
 
Wrong. 'Decently functioning democracies' dont convict people based upon unsupported accusations. That is how poorly functioning despotisms operate. You want to destroy someones career and reputation? Show up with some evidence. Kavanaughs appointment was a victory of reason over mob rule. Not surprising you came down on the wrong side.

You are devoid of any sense whatsoever of the tragedy that befell three women who testified under oath what Kavanaugh did to them.

This refusal to face justice is unforgivable.

You (plural) are a sorry lot of blind individuals who think that "proof" of rape must evident, current and indisputable. (If there is no semen, then no DNA. If no DNA, no proof of guilt!) And because of your blind political philosophy you refuse to admit that Kavanaugh has no right whatsoever to be on any court in America - and given his misconduct certainly NOT the Supreme Court.

This is the second monstrous political injustice to hit America in two-years. The first being Donald Dork himself ...
 
Accusations should never be enough to convict...not even in the court of public opinion.

The accusations are well documented and you are blind to their merit.

From TimeMag here, the full statement from Ford’s lawyers, Debra S. Katz, Lisa J Banks, and Michael R. Bromwich, below.

As the Senate debates the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh, numerous false claims have been repeated to undermine the credibility of Dr. Christine Blasey Ford. Whatever the outcome, Senators deserve to know the truth:

An FBI investigation that did not include interviews of Dr. Ford and Judge Kavanaugh is not a meaningful investigation in any sense of the word.

Had the FBI interviewed Dr. Ford, she would have answered questions about Judge Kavanaugh’s assault, including questions that Ms. Mitchell and the Judiciary Committee members failed to ask during the hearing. She would have provided corroborating evidence, including her medical records and access to the phone from which she sent messages to a reporter about the assault prior to his nomination to the Supreme Court.

The suggestion that our refusal to give medical records to the Judiciary Committee bears on Dr. Ford’s credibility is completely false. The Committee has released every document we have exchanged, and in the case of their letters to us, sometimes before we received them. We lost confidence in the Committee’s ability or desire to maintain the confidentiality of materials and information we provided, especially with respect to something as sensitive as medical records.

Ford wanted to detail the events of the sexual assault by Judge Kavanaugh directly to members of the Judiciary Committee. Dr. Ford was timely provided with all communications from the Majority’s staff and chose from the multiple options she was given by them. At the hearing, Dr. Ford understood Senator Grassley’s comment to be that he personally would have flown to California to speak with her. She would have welcomed Senator Grassley and other Committee members to California but that was not one of the options offered by Committee staff.

At no time did members of Dr. Ford’s team advise Committee staff that she could not travel to Washington, D.C. because of her fear of flying. Rather, staff was told that Dr. Ford could not travel on the schedule the Committee demanded because she was focused on taking measures to protect her family from threats, including death threats. Those measures included meeting with the FBI to report these disturbing threats. In fact, Dr. Ford does have a decades-long fear of flying for which she takes medication prescribed by a physician, but this had no impact on the timing of her testimony.

Committee staff repeatedly rejected our requests for multiple corroborating witnesses to be allowed to testify, including Jeremiah Hanafin, the highly experienced former FBI agent who administered the polygraph to Dr. Ford on August 7, 2018. He was also prepared to cooperate with the FBI’s investigation, including making the underlying polygraph results and process available. Had Mr. Hanafin been permitted to testify or been interviewed by the FBI, he would have explained that his conclusions of “no deception” were validated by four independent outside reviewers. There were seven people whom Dr. Ford told about the assault prior to the nomination who could have testified to the Committee or been interviewed by the FBI.

Thus sworn testimony was obviated on the specious argument that the hearing had to make a decision quickly in order to move on to a Senate vote. Yet another fallacy by the Replicants to get what they want, no matter what and no matter how ...
 
Last edited:
No a sad day was when the bs artist leftists tried to smear an innocent man and exploited a woman in the process. Good always triumphs over evil so spare us your men are evil mantra ...

Blah, blah, blah from the Rabid Right who are masters of the Art of Meaningless Blather ...
 
The handful of disgruntled democrats lost again as the massively popular 'Make America Great' Trump train rolls on.

Yeah, right into a wall.

We shall see ...
 
Back
Top Bottom